Daley and Chicago'c new law

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Ed Wagner

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Is it possible that Chicago and Daley can or may be found in Contempt of the SCOTUS? Their new laws on guns is virtually a slap in the face to the McDonald ruling. Disassembled and locked up was overturned in Heller as I recall, can't be outside the house itself ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY, no porch, no garage, is that what the opinion read by Justice Allito for the Majority implied or stated when the opinion said " keep and bear arms."

Will it take a challenge in District court or could an enterprising and dedicated U. S. Attorney bring charges? I would think that the new law in Chicago is a violation of the peoples Constitutional Right under color of law.
 
If the current administration won't enforce Federal immigration law, the likelihood of them actively pursuing civil rights charges against a city for passing unconstitutional gun laws is about as much for a lucid thought first being formed in Joe Biden's head, then being translated into eloquent speech.

The MOST I expect is contempt citations for cities which blatantly violate court rulings on the matter.
 
Chicago's handgun ban has not yet been held unconstitutional. It will, but it hasn't yet. McDonald remanded the case. When the law was originally passed, Chicago was in accord with the Constitution, and Daley didn't write the law anyway.
The Heller ruling did not apply to the states, only the Federal government, of which the D. of C. is controlled by.
I have never heard of any public official being tried on crimminal charges for prosecuting a legal (if unconstituional) law. I doubt that a section 1983 (civil) case would even make it to trial.
Uhh, a District Attorney works FOR the Government, they cannot sue the Government or any member thereof acting in their offical capacity.
"Under color of law?" This is a legal term that has a specific meaning, and in this context makes no sense.
And watch Chicago; they will pass restrictions on handgun owners in light of McDonald (e.g., licensing, proficiencey requirement, insurance requirement, etc.). Such will have to be contested on a case-by-case basis. And don't look for all of them to be struck down. (See Heller v. D.C. & McDonald v. Chicago)
I hate to be such a wet blanket, but I do have a slight understanding about our legal system.
 
Heard Todd V. the NRA representative for IL on WLS radio interview today - he stated that the NRA/ISRA will be challenging in court all of the new Chicago gun law - of course they are also working to get state wide pre-emption passed and a CCW bill which would effectviely moot/repeal/gut the Chicago law - but those are a long shot given the number of Chicago politicians in the state legislature - the requirement of a supermajority in both houses to pass and the the current governors opposition to such legislation. However, there are elections in Novemeber and we will have to see how much the political landscape changes after that.
 
However, there are elections in Novemeber and we will have to see how much the political landscape changes after that.
When it comes to gunowner rights in Illinois, D and R are completely interchangeable. The name "Henry Hyde" might ring a bell.
 
I guess the point I've been most confused by is that Chicago doesn't "ban" handguns with a law at all. My understanding is that what occurred during the Jane Byrne administration was actually an executive action declaring a moratorium on registration of handguns in Chicago, which was required by law. Since handguns would no longer be registered, and since legal handgun ownership required registration first, the result was a de facto ban on legal ownership of a handgun. There are still people that, based on the original decree that handguns already registered in Chicago at the time of Byrne's pronouncement could still continue to be registered yearly, own a legally-registered handgun in the city of Chicago.

For those who actually know what they're talking about with respect to Chicago gun laws, do I have this right?
 
I guess the point I've been most confused by is that Chicago doesn't "ban" handguns with a law at all. My understanding is that what occurred during the Jane Byrne administration was actually an executive action declaring a moratorium on registration of handguns in Chicago, which was required by law. Since handguns would no longer be registered, and since legal handgun ownership required registration first, the result was a de facto ban on legal ownership of a handgun. There are still people that, based on the original decree that handguns already registered in Chicago at the time of Byrne's pronouncement could still continue to be registered yearly, own a legally-registered handgun in the city of Chicago.

For those who actually know what they're talking about with respect to Chicago gun laws, do I have this right?
You're essentially correct.

I believe that an actual law to formalize the situation was subsequently passed.

You left out a few details such as Aldermen being allowed to register and CARRY handguns, and shenanigans like the law passed essentially to allow Alderman Richard Mell (Blagojevic's son in law) to re-register his guns when he forgot to do so and was therefore barred. It also covered an infinitesimal number of others in a similar situation.
 
I guess the point I've been most confused by is that Chicago doesn't "ban" handguns with a law at all. My understanding is that what occurred during the Jane Byrne administration was actually an executive action declaring a moratorium on registration of handguns in Chicago, which was required by law. Since handguns would no longer be registered, and since legal handgun ownership required registration first, the result was a de facto ban on legal ownership of a handgun. There are still people that, based on the original decree that handguns already registered in Chicago at the time of Byrne's pronouncement could still continue to be registered yearly, own a legally-registered handgun in the city of Chicago.

For those who actually know what they're talking about with respect to Chicago gun laws, do I have this right?
That's about it. There was an ordinance that handguns had to be registered, but Chicago refused to allow any new registrations. Hence, a de facto ban. Recently a Chicago politico missed the deadline for re-registering his handgun so registration was reopened for approximately the amount of time he needed to take care of it. Ain't that nice?
 
I understand that it will probably take many court challenges, based on many factors, I was just wondering if it were possible, not necessarily likely, but given the current majority of the SCOTUS, and the insult they received from the Executive branch at the SOTU adress, if it were at all possible.

I too understand the legal system, 30+ years as a LEO, I have seen judges take offense at very small things and cite contempt charges, also so them put up with amazing crap without batting an eye.
 
It's unclear exactly how Daley expects his law to be enforced. I mean...Will the Chicago PD cruise up and down residential streets, watching for somebody to walk out in their yard...prone'em out and frisk'em for weapons? Are they going to do random spot checks for old men puttering around in their workshops carrying snub-nosed .38s?

It was grandstanding. Daley serving notice on the country that he doesn't have to abide by the SCOTUS decision, because he's much too important for their silly rulings to apply to his whims in his little fiefdom. A child throwing a temper tantrum after being told that he is of no real consequence. "Nyah nyah nyah! You can't make me!"

The man suffers from delusions of grandeur.
 
I don't think search warrants are required in Chicago.
Maybe Daley can get Jerry Finnegan a Presidential pardon. After all, SOS did a lot of gun raids when they weren't robbing people. Daley can reform SOS with Jerry Finnegan in charge. That way he could go back to searching for guns (and cash and other valuables).
 
Court challenges to different gun laws being prepared or current, will shape the boundaries of the 2A, eventually. Gun restrictions by cities such as chicago will test our resolve, but if we remain vigilant, we can defeat the truly repressive laws by using our Constitution and the keepers of the Constitution, the SCOTUS.



NCsmitty
 
NCsmitty - "...if we remain vigilant, we can defeat the truly repressive laws by using our Constitution and the keepers of the Constitution, the SCOTUS."

Activist judges in any court are not keepers of the Constitution. I hope you're right, but I have a much bleaker outlook given the number of activist jurists on the SCOTUS and on the lower courts, especially those infuenced by political machines.
 
Activist judges in any court are not keepers of the Constitution.

Absolutely, NoAlibi, hence the necessity for vigilance in all facets of politics and appointments.
We have to deal with the 30% that represents the liberals in this country, and become activists for what we believe in, to prevent a repeat of a liberal socialist being reelected. I do this every day, because the alternative is unacceptable.



NCsmitty
 
It's unclear exactly how Daley expects his law to be enforced. I mean...Will the Chicago PD cruise up and down residential streets, watching for somebody to walk out in their yard...prone'em out and frisk'em for weapons? Are they going to do random spot checks for old men puttering around in their workshops carrying snub-nosed .38s?

It was grandstanding. Daley serving notice on the country that he doesn't have to abide by the SCOTUS decision, because he's much too important for their silly rulings to apply to his whims in his little fiefdom. A child throwing a temper tantrum after being told that he is of no real consequence. "Nyah nyah nyah! You can't make me!"

The man suffers from delusions of grandeur.
Pretty much sums it up.

It was grandstanding for his supporters.... and a scare tactic for those who oppose him.
 
Umm, the Roberts Court is most definitely an activist court. By definition, a court which ingores stare decisis is activist. I've yet to hear of any legal scholar say otherwise.
 
Activist?

You would assert that stare decisis -- bad decisions in the past, violating the Constitution -- should be given deference and that the Constitution should not be re-asserted to remedy those bad decisions?

Re-asserting the Constitution is hardly "activist."

It's not "legislating from the bench."

It's upholding the law. The Supreme Law of the land.

The idea that any bad decision, any bad precedent, must be let stand and thereafter govern subsequent decisions, is tantamount to saying, "if you can get away with fraud once, law enforcement is obliged to let you get away with it in perpetuity."

I would submit that this "definition" of activist is seriously flawed, and not at all in line with the more commonly understood sense of "legislating from the bench."

The lawyers and jurists on the board are free to correct me.

 
"In Accord" With COTUS?

When the law was originally passed, Chicago was in accord with the Constitution . . .

I would disagree.

The McDonald decision does not create new law, and does not amend the Constitution.

Rather, it affirms that the Constitution, as amended, applies more broadly than individual fiefdoms were wont to acknowledge.

Chicago's law was in accord with consensus, not with the Constitution.



In passing, I would note that I have long found it puzzling that anyone would perpetuate the legal fiction that somehow the Constitution, as amended, did not apply to the several States.

As I understand it, each state, as admitted to the Union must, as a precondition, subscribe to the Constitution as having force of law.

The idea that a state could apply for admission, subscribe to the Constitution of the United States, and then later pretend that said state is actually exempted from certain arbitrary clauses or amendments, is frankly absurd.

Not too absurd for lawyers and politicians to adopt and perpetuate, of course.

Further, the 14th Amendment has, in my humble and uneducated opinion, been misread for decades, resulting in yet another absurdity in application: the phenomenon of "anchor babies."

I look forward to the case (or the amendment) that finally sutures that wound.​



 
"Bad" decisions depend upon which side you are viewing them from. For over 200 yrs. the 2nd Amen. was construed to apply to the Fed. Gov. It was a matter of "state's rights." Citizens United overturned 70+ yrs. of settled law.
Brown v. Board of Ed. violated every bit of stare decisis, original intent (during the floor debate the question was asked "does this mean that white children will have to go to school with black children?" The answer was a resounding "NO." Otherwise the 14th Amen. would never have made it out of committe.), law (see jim Crow), and a SCOTUS decision (seperate but equal; see Plessy v. Ferguson).
A "bad" decision depends upon your view, and there are always more than one legitimate and rational view on every court case. If there wasn't, cases would never make it before SCOTUS to begin with, they'd be shut down at the district level or the circuit level (a check on errant district court judges). Certainly, if a case was so one-sided, it wold never make it past an en banc review at the appellate level (a check on an errant circuit court judge).
"Upholding" the law, or Const. depends upon what your view of the Const. or law is. Again, there are at least 2 rational sides to every argument. Just because you or I "believe" the Const. means someting, does not make it so. Some of us may have a better idea of Const. understanding than others, but there are only 9 people whose opinions count. And they wear black dresses.
We can't dig up the F.F.'s and ask their opinions, and even if we could, they certainly all would not agree on everything in the Const. That is why the F.F.'s worded things vaugely, leaving the interpretation to be hashed out later. They could agree on vauge and ambiguos ideals, but not the specifics.
And even when they spelled out their intent in clear & plain language, they did not think of every ramification of their verbiage. Case in point; "Congress shall make no law...Abridging the freedom of speech..." 1st Amen. And it is first because it was so important it passed the 1st Congress post-haste, with scant disagreement.
Now, I think everyone will be onboard with me when I go out on a limb and say that the F.F.'s did not intend this to mean that one could give away state secrets to our nation's enemies (or, ala Justice Holmes, "shout fire in a crowded moviehouse"), but the clear and plain meaning of these words say it is permissible (that is a "strict constructionist" interpretation of the Const., which is different than an "original intent" view). The Const. does say "no law," but who can say that such speech ought to be lawful?
Again, activist courts can be good or bad, depending upon your view. It was constitutional for around 80 yrs. to segregate negroes from whites. And even longer for miscegenation laws, as per the orininal intent of the 14th Amen.'s framers. So, who really wants to argue that activist courts are always bad? The Const. is not a perfect document. If it was it would not have been amended 27 times, it is a work in progress. And it's the best we have for a basis for governance.
 
This is all about control. Daley will not be satisfied till he has complete controll of his subjects in Chicagoland. This makes me sick and im just glad it has not spread statewide. This guy needs to go!!! I dont know if he is up for election this November but if I know Illinois they will just vote in another crazy demorat. I however will be voting Constitution Party.....And no its not a wasted vote its a VOTE!
 
Looks like the mafia never left Chicago... they just ran for public office. The simple fact that the city council unanimously approved this new slew of regulations is proof that there is no real democratic representation there. Very sad... very sad indeed.
 
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