Picked up my new LMT 308 rifle today. my FFL said DPMS is just a good

Go with the Pmags. Great price on that scope and rifle.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is going to get interesting...

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!!


Please?

is the LMT better made? probably... it is also a hell of a lot more expensive last i checked and IMO, not capable of anything more than I would expect out of a DPMS. You bought a hell of a nice rifle and should be more than pleased with it.. However, in my opinion, it is quite similar to comparing a nice Savage bolt to a nice Remington bolt... The Remington may well be built "better" and include better parts as well as be the first choice of police and military snipers... BUT, the Savage will shoot, for all intents and purposes, just as well and be just as reliable.. does that mean that nobody should ever buy anything but a Savage? Not at all. It just makes it a very viable choice and one hell of a headache for the Remington groupies...

IMO, the shop owner's opinion was out of line in that it is none of his business if you prefer to buy the top of the line or the bottom of the line... I often help a friend of mine in his shop.. of customers come in with questions, i will answer to the best of my ability, knowledge, and experience. With that said, my opinions stop the moment their decision is made whether or not I agree with their ultimate choice. At that point, it is congratulations and I hope you enjoy it.

Your second paragraph should be hung next to the time clock in every gun shop in America, PT! Couldn't have said it better myself. When I worked in a gun shop, that was my policy as well. Never crap on a customers choice.

The LMT has a few cool features DPMS and Armalite lack like the:

-SOPMOD stock. Way too cool
-Magpul Pmag compatability
-ambi safety
-ambi mag release
-a very, very good rail system
-proper low pro gas block, I think it's even pinned if I remember right.


Only problem? I'm not sure if a BAD lever will work on one, then again, it's not a little carbine anyway.

-Magpul Pmag compatability
-ambi safety

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My DPMS came with an ambi safety from the factory, all DPMS' take Pmags.

-a very, very good rail system

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My factory rail system from DPMS is retarded in a way a one piece optic mount can't fit on the forend rail and receiver rail.

Again I know the LMT is the better rifle but I still have seen no proof of DPMS 308 failures, I bet largely due to the fact it has never been fielded by a military.

I think a better car analogy is the lmt is an s-class Mercedes. The dpms is a Mitsubishi EVO. If your measure of cars is speed, the EVO is half the price and just as good if not better.

The dpms is a no frills does the job type of rifle. If your measure of rifles is accuracy, your FFL was correct.

This is becoming opinionized, I have yet to see any facts stating that DPMS is superior or as good as the LMT.
everyone has their gun and most people stand by whatever they have even if they know the truth. I reccomend Howa to everyone, because it was reccomended to me and it has turned out to be great, but if tomorrow somone came up to me and offered me a 700 SPS AAC I would say "OK" and start to reccomend the AAC if it was good.
back to Opinion I believe the LMT is superior and its used by the British Parliamental guard or something like that.
I honestly think the rifle needs to be offered in 18" form to the soldiers over the M16/M4 platform, especially since in afghanistan the 5.56 is not working out too great.
.308 rocks.
LMT is cut into better quality.
but when were talking .308 DMR rifles not much beats a bolt gun.

Enjoy your new rifle and forget this LMT crap.....

Don't feel bad you did fine with the LMT, you paid more but you got a much higher quality AR in return. Enjoy it!

A good friend of mine bought a LMT MWS a few months ago. He sent the barrel to ADCO to get it fluted and painted ... it came out really nice and took some front-end weight off the rifle.

As for DPMS being as good as LMT at half the price ... for most people that may be true but I would have asked the FFL to define "just as good". Most of us don't push our firearms to the limit and we could get by with a lot less than we have.

1. Nice rifle.
2. Your dealer is an idiot, whether he's correct or not. Why would he say that to a customer? He should say "What a nice rifle! Congrats! Thanks for your business. Enjoy it."

(Before I put up that facetious, sarcastic post of mine, I checked with a local guy who has more time in on Black Rifles than I do---"Is the AR10 used currently by anybody's military?", says I, "No.", says he. Later on, several hours later as a matter of fact, he says: "LMT sold a few of their rifles to the Brits.".
Well, this man is no longer my go-to guy, I will be getting a mil-spec go-to guy to replace him.)

Mr. Roberts,
I am afraid I used an LMT level of humor in the first post and it seems to have gone right over the berm. Only DPMS level humor from here on out, we don't want to have any accidents.

To the first point---does the LMT 308 rifle you buy in the US carry a British Military Proof? Any Military Proof?
If it doesn't---then you have to trust LMT to be honorable and maintain milspec, without any more supervision than DPMS has in it's operation.

Sorry to say, but I got an implication from your first post that a non-milspec manufacturer like DPMS might be dishonorable in the pursuit of the bottom line, simply because they lack this supervision and of course, I object to that, because my LR308 is an honorable rifle.

Second point---What is a "recreational rifle" in your book?
If a civilian buys a milspec LMT, how is that any less a recreational rifle than my DPMS?

Some of the 3gun guys may want to "drive the Lamborghini"* while they are playing their game---but it's still just a game, after all...targets don't shoot back.
-----krinko




*I refuse to compare a "top tier" rifle with one of those Mercedes Tractors.

To the first point---does the LMT 308 rifle you buy in the US carry a British Military Proof? Any Military Proof?
If it doesn't---then you have to trust LMT to be honorable and maintain milspec, without any more supervision than DPMS has in it's operation.

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If your point is that any manufacturer can commit fraud by claiming to use a certain part or do a certain test and then not to do it... well OK. That is certainly true. LMT could certainly claim to sell you the same rifle they just sold to the British and then sell you something less. A military contract is no guarantee against outright fraud.

If a manufacturer with a military contract is doing that they better hope it is not caught by military acceptance testing. If they are just doing it only in their civilian line, then they better hope their inventory system is sophisticated enough that they can keep identical looking parts from being used in the wrong rifle.

Second point---What is a "recreational rifle" in your book?
If a civilian buys a milspec LMT, how is that any less a recreational rifle than my DPMS?

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In the sense I was using it in this post, I meant rifles built without meeting any external standard. To give an example, Bravo Company builds rifles for the civilian and law enforcement market. However, they publish the standard they use in building rifles and go into great detail on the tests and parts used. They include certificates showing independent testing. Even though they sell to the exact same market as DPMS, I wouldn't consider them to be a "recreational" rifle because they hold themselves to the same standard as the military rifles and promise customers they are getting that standard.

I think your dealer is an ass. IMHO, that's pretty close to saying a Ford is as good as a Mercedes since they both have 4 wheels and an engine.

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I guess you've never driven or owned either model. Ford quality is at least 35% better than Mercedes if not more.

Sorry to say, but I got an implication from your first post that a non-milspec manufacturer like DPMS might be dishonorable in the pursuit of the bottom line, simply because they lack this supervision and of course, I object to that, because my LR308 is an honorable rifle.

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Golly gee, Wally...I sure do wish I had a honorable rifle...that'd be swell.

I am trying to decide which gun to go with right now my self. The LMT or DPMS SASS.
If i had to turn this into a car comparison I would say the DPMS is a Corvette and the LMT is a Porsche. Yes Porsche makes one hell of a car and could be said to be of better quality, however take the two to a track and they are the same. The average driver will not be able to tell the difference other than the Price tag. Hell pro drivers would put faster lap times down in the Corvette. I want the LMT but for the price I could pick up the DPMS and put optics and upgrade some internals for the same price as the LMT. However the LMT does come with a few nice extras. For example, the quick change barrel system, the one piece upper/handguard. I think the LMT was a great choice! dont listen to others.

I looked to buy an AR10 and ended up with an Armalite AR10T which I am very happy with, but almost bought a DPMS SASS, was outbid on Gunbroker, and I believe I would have been very happy with it.

My brother just went through this, we priced AR10'S and if I remember correctly, the LWRC was $3800, the POF was $3000, the LMT was $2797(from LMT'S WEBSITE), the Fulton Armory was $1800, the JP RIFLES was $3200, the LARUE was $3000, he already had an Armalite AR10T, so he bought the JP RIFLES because of accuracy reports and a forged receiver and he has a JP Rifles AR15. These prices are off the top of my head and may not be accurate and represent the top retail asking price.

Point being the LMT is a fine rifle, that you got for a great price, the DPMS is also a good rifle, but don't question your decision to buy the LMT, if you do please give me the first chance to buy it from you!

My next one will probably be Fulton Armory.

OP - I just bought a LMT M4 and when I handled the DPMS, I thought it was extremely well sorted out.

I bought my LMT to accompany my VEPR in 7.62x39 to be 'hard use' rifles.

I doubt you'll be disappointed in your choice of LMT - honestly. And I brutalized a Colt M16A2 for years (by brutalized I mean ran it long and hard, but always meticulously maintained it, too), and loved that rifle.

I am not in any way shape or form knocking the DPMS. I thought it looked well sorted out and had a nice fit and finish.

The SOPMOD stock on the LMT carbine is the cat's ass.

Edit - I think a couple people here are misreading the OPs statement as saying he did NOT get an LMT and GOT a DPMS, instead. He DID get an LMT (to anyone who reads this and may have been confused).

p.s. - Before getting my LMT, I came across hordes of BCM fans drinking kool-aid.

I bring up BCM only to support the point that there are flavors of the month in rifles and gear.

And just so I don't ruffle any feathers because my words are misinterpreted, I have ZERO doubt that BCM is completely top notch after also firing the one my FFL has used and abused mercilessly. In fact, had I not gotten such a great deal on the LMT, the BCM middie would have been a very strong contender for my $$$.

Every week there's new gun rags out with some new level of high speed AR-15 on it that is supposed to do something new or revolutionary in a market crowded, stuffed, say I, with AR-15s. I am not a huge AR fan--far from it, in fact, so this gets tiresome. However, I will say that I have been intrigued by the LMT MRP rail gun since I laid eyes on it and have been "kind of" keeping an eye on these guys ever since. Lewis Machine & Tool seems to be very highly regarded in a heavily scrutinized industry, and the Brits apparently did their homework before awarding that contract to them. Military specifications aside, you don't get and maintain the reputation LMT has in this market without demonstrating that you know how to build some rifles. Now DPMS may be a decent rifle and I may be a little out of the loop, but my understanding is that even considering just the civilian market, LMT has the better reputation.

I love my M1A. And I will swear up and down that the difference between the cast receiver and military forged receiver is marginal to non-existent for 99.99% of even hard use rifles. But in the end, I do freely admit there is a difference in overall build quality, materials, construction, and just simply higher standard applied to an SEI Crazy Horse or Mk 14, and this is reflected in the price. It's the same thing for the DPMS vs the LMT. The DPMS may be a really good rifle and perfectly adequate for even a lot of military duty. But at some point, even as a fan of the rifle, you still have to give credit where it is due, and the LMT is a rifle held to a higher standard, as well as a military standard.

Just an observation, has anyone checked out this year's Consumer Report roundup for car manufacturers? Both Mercedes and BMW have numerous vehicles with below average reliability, and actually were two of the worst companies. Ford doesn't have a single one.

This can happen with gun companies too ;-) I think it's a better idea to research the product than simply trust in the brand or buy the name.

If memory serves, DPMS doesn't make the mag's that carry their name. They're made by C Products, I believe.

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Must be someone else, as the C-Products mags I have for the DPMS .308 are far better than the OEM DPMS mags that came with it. And the design of the mags is different, particularly in the feedlips.

I don't know much about metal working, but the "extruded" part didn't instill confidence in the build of the rifle.

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Although the extruded upper is a cost-saving measure, it's actually 100% fine from a strength standpoint. It would be better if it were 7075 instead of 6066 aluminum, and it results in a fairly thick and heavy part. With aluminum, extrusions can be quite strong, usually better than castings - but it all depends on the alloy and heat treatment. Needless to say, forged 7075 is still better.

The LMT 308MWS is a military grade rifle. The DPMS .308s are target/recreational rifles. They are built to different standards of ruggedness. Like HorseSoldier said, most recreational shooters will never notice the difference between the two; but it is there.

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100% agree.

BTW, $2200 for the LMT .308 sounds like quite a good deal, actually. If you don't want it, I'll trade you my barely used DPMS LR-308B and $1000 cash for it, send me a PM.