Strange question at the VA Hospital.

I am not a primary care physician. My specialty is down-stream from that first doctor visit, so I don't actually have to ask any of these "Safety" type questions. I have given up, long ago, trying to help pts who don't want my help. If they decline, then you are right, it becomes none of my business. Just like doing a physical exam or CT scan or MRI to try and detect some problem, if you decline, then I at least know that I tried.

As to the bike, passive smoke and other questions, having worked in the ER enough, I bet I could come up with a longer list of dangerous things than you can. A visit doesn't give a physician enough time to ask about every one of them, just the more lethal ones, like seatbelts, smoking, tablesaws or guns. You would be surprised at the level of idiocy out there. People who smoke in front of kids, don't lock up their guns, let kids ride bikes without helmets, let kis ride in cars without seatbelts, etc. It is part of a physician's job, whether you like it or not, to do their best to provide assessment and info to pts in order to prevent accidents, not just treat them after they happen.

Given that this is a gun forum, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you have a paranoia thing about protecting your gun rights. I invite you to reread my posts to see if, anywhere, I said that the questions about gun ownership have to be answered. I never did. I simply tried to explain why you might get that question when visiting a doctor, especially the first time.

Since you don't know a thing about my stance on weapons, and you are not believing that I was simply trying to answer a question and not arguing, you will excuse me while I slip back under the radar before I get shot at anymore. I definitely don't need the aggravation.

I have seen this issue come up in several ways at the VA.

1) In the old VA I was told by one guy that all guns were dangerous. He objected to private ownership and used his position to push his political values. He is a VA employee who has now retired. Unethical at best!

2) I was told a few years ago that their concern is that someone who always practices drawing a gun might someday get angry and draw/shoot as force of habit. Well meaning but misguided!

3) My current doctor is a Vietnamese/American and clearly the smartest doctor I have had anywhere. She has concerns about depression in her patients. Her questions are rational and risk based for Agent Orange Vets like me. She focuses mostly on seat belt use. If you have ever driven in CA you will see her point. She has no particular concerns about firearm use. If you are exhibiting anger you can expect them to be concerned. When being fitted for glasses I tell them that I need new glasses because my scores are dropping in GSSF!

I have another take on this issue. Consider this...

These questions may be related to a survey by the CDC or some other government agency related to firearms safety. Rather than viewing them as an intrusion into your privacy, view them as an opportunity to demonstrate how safe gun owners can be.

They're not going to be making a list of gun owners based on this information. But your information may be anonymously collated with other data to create statistical data.

Now imagine that all responsible gun owners refused to answer any questions about their guns. Imagine that the only data they were getting was from the "other idiots" that own guns, or from irresponsible gun owners.

When they go to create their statistics, you may have skewed the data in such a way that it makes gun owners look bad.

Here's an example of how that could happen, in theory. A statistician surveys ten people. He asks if they own guns. As a follow-up question, only if they say yes, he asks if anyone in their family has ever been injured by gun violence.

5 people truthfully answer no, that they don't own guns. 1 guy says yes, that he owns guns, and also says that his uncle was accidentally shot with a gun. 5 gun owners lie and say they don't own guns because they are paranoid about the government.

The statistician now creates his statistics. 90% of people in America don't own guns. 100% of gun owners have a family member injured by gun violence.

Not exactly accurate, is it? In fact, using the same people, but getting truthful answers, 60% of people in America own guns, and only 1 in 6 guns owners have a family member that has been injured by a gun.

My suggestion is that if your doctor asks you a question like that, ask him why he wants to know. Discuss with him whether he is trying to determine your lead exposure level, or whether the information is being provided to the CDC for statistical purposes, or whether it's just a form question that is of no use to him whatsoever. Then answer accordingly.

Aaron

If a medical professional (government OR private) asked me that I think I would steer the conversation something like this:

Dr.: Do you own any firearms?

Me: Are you worried about the ingestion of toxins, or something similar?

If he/she responds 'no' then:

Me: Is my mental health being called into question?

If akward backpedaling ensues, then:

Me: I am not comfotable discussing this.

-

Of course, I'm not familiar with how these things work, so that may not be a realistic way to respond.

The more I read this the more it reminds me of Chicken Little running around the barn yard screaming "The Sky Is Falling".

Several years ago a Dr. asked me the same question while I was having a DOT physical. I told him it was none of his business. He than told me my blood pressure was a little high.

My doctor asked me ( one time only) do you carry a gun ?
I took it out--took out the bullets & handed it to him.
He said " nice --where can I get one"
Never asked the question again---------------

"Guns Are A Public Health Problem"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1u6POMJoaE

Um, WHO are you voting for!?

Al

Our family doc is a gun guy and knows that I am too. He has made it clear that he would like a chance at some of my guns should I decide to start selling.

I think it's awfully naive to assume that this information isn't being recorded on personal files. Are all the other questions being asked merely for the purpose of statistics, or are they used to determine personal risk factors to be acted upon by the patient's health team? As has been mentioned in this thread, the admission of mental health counseling has already been used to deny a variety of weapons licensing. Doesn't anyone remember the huge emphasis the media placed on the VA Tech killer's presence in mental health system records? The implication was that this should have automatically disqualified him from possession of a firearm. I have no doubt that line of thinking is in play in these questions. Some may call it paranoia, but every major Western power has taken great pains to separate gun owners from their guns. Anything that makes gun grabbing easier is probably a bad thing, and should naturally be viewed with suspicion IMHO.

Police reports are the typical manner in which firearms data (statistics) are collected. If the gun is as dangerous as some would like us to believe then the stats on gun violence and gun accidents would be so high that We The People would be right to have the US Constitution changed to get rid of private gun ownership.

Lacking the overwhelming evidence to support that guns are as dangerous as some would claim, anyone who asks if you legally own a gun outside of a legitimate criminal investigation is way out of bounds. Any doctor who is doing a risk assessment should rethink their perspective of guns. The safe and responsible ownership and handling of a gun is not a problem in our society. The opposite of that situation is routinely documented by law enforcement. You want stats on gun related violence and incidents then go to the FBI website.

How about this, all doctors should be compelled via statute to inform patients the number of doctors in that medical facility who currently have malpractice claims against them, have had claims against them. The specialties that have the highest rate of malpractice claims against them. Doctors must disclose their treatment success rate as a percentage. Doctors should be compelled to disclose to the patient the rate of over, under or wrong medication incidents as a percentage. Doctors must disclose the rate of documented patient neglect. This will enable the patient to do a risk assessment as to the risks associated with the medical facility and staff they are visiting. For those emergency room situations, the information should be provided when practical.

When a doctor makes a mistake and the mistake is reported to law enforcement they should be as vigorously pursued by law enforcement and prosecutors as is a person who discharges a firearm. Let the court system work out the details. As they do for gun related incidents.

Doctors should only be doing risk assessments that directly relate to the patients complaint or affliction. Profiling a patients tendencies are flat out wrong.

All those emergency room incidents you could cite are result of folks not taking the proper precautions and doing a risk assessment themselves as to the potential dangers of the activity they were engaged in. Table saws just don't jump off the workbench and slice folks fingers off. No more so than a gun lying there minding its own business will shoot anybody.

When you casually shake off the risk assessment (profiling) of a patient as no big deal. It is good for the patient and good for those around them. You are not just answering a question, you have informed folks that it is OK to include legal gun ownership as a risk to be considered and then assessed as a problem by somebody else because they have small kids in the house, or smoke with kids in the house or drink with kids in the house. The general view of wanting to help is prevalent in this country. As it should be. But this view gets lots of folks in trouble with the law when they thought they were helping. Information is power and the government needs information to gain power over the American people.

Despotic governments can stand moral force until the cows come home, what they fear is physical force.

jcwit said:

The more I read this the more it reminds me of Chicken Little running around the barn yard screaming "The Sky Is Falling".

Click to expand...

I agree, right up to the point where the fox eats you.

Rocky, there is no such person as EX-Marine only former Marines. I wonder how when and where the training took place and organization of service.
Fred

Because I carry concealed with a license I am almost forced to admit that yes I do own a firearm. I have a 45yr old High Standard Sentinel Deluxe I carry when walking in the woods. I always add that a 22cal is all I need.

I am not a Vet, but

I have to see my doctor every 3 months and I have never been asked this. I like to think it's because the doctor himself thinks it's a ridiculous question that has no business being on any list of questions he must ask a patient. Sound like crap from the AMA, as I have heard about it from people visiting pediatricians. But I also take a WWII Vet to his appointment every 6 months and so far, he has not been asked, either.

@Dejavu Referring to people who "don't lock up their guns" as idiots only telegraphs your philistinism. In some cases, it may be appropriate to lock up your firearm, in other cases, making it inaccessible actually increases your risk of injury or death. Hastily-made blanket statements often miss their intended mark, best to choose your words carefully.

Was the next two questions, "Are you feeling stressed?" and " Do you feel like you would want to hurt someone?" If you had answered yes, they would have taken your firearms.

Not sure if true, but a vet sent the email to me and I know another vet who got the same questions.

I am a completely disabled vet and am at the VA often.I have nevr been ask this.There has been an Urban legend for some time about this.I question the OP. Byron


http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/v/va-test-permit.htm

The first endocrinologist's office i went to asked met he same question. I said "excuse me?"... she repeated it and i said "That is nobody's business but my own"

i was told that if i didn't answer they could refuse me as a patient.

I asked a rather rude sexual question about her in the bedroom and when the shocked look came over her face i said "See.... none of my business"

i left, screw that crap

Don't be paranoid because I've never been in the military nor to a VA, and my doctor asked me the same question when he first evaluated me. That along with the usual questions about, smoking, drinking, drugs, etc.

My wife is a pediatrician, is about as pro-gun as I am, and asks this question. It's followed up with "have you taught him gun safety?" whether the answer was yes or no. If the answer was no/no, then the follow-up is "does your child know not to touch the big watermelon cutting knife?" to which the answer is "of course!" Same thing. Some tools are dangerous, and kids that live in areas where gun ownership is common need to be trained to be safe around them even if there aren't any in the home where they live.

Seems appropriate in discussions where seatbelts, bicycle helmets, safety around water, and so on are covered. Not everyone's an anti.

Click to expand...

She doesn't have to ask the first question, go right to the second. "If you have a gun in your house, is it kept where the kids can't get to it?" Or even, "Do you keep your guns locked up when your not using them? Have you taught your kids about gun safety?"

"Do you have guns?" is still inappropriate.

My son's pediatrician asked (on the checklist for the hospital group he works for). I answered, "Oh yea, I have a lot! They are certainly a lot safer than flying in light sport aircraft!" (He built a plane from a kit and has a Sport Pilot License).

He got a good laugh and conceded that he agreed with me. All he said is that for those who answer yes, he's supposed to give them a primer on safety, i.e trigger locks, keep away from children, etc. Really not a big deal but another annoying public service announcement. Somehow med school qualified him for that

Another way to possibly look at the question....

should not the answer just be "of course I do....."

Thats what I said,
but then again, my Dr. even suggested that I go shooting, as I find it relaxing and a way to concentrate on a single issue (destress I think she called it)