Reloading issues with 45 Colt

huntincowboy said:

Hello fellow cowboy! For question one the brass is from Winchester and Hornady ammo that I bought and fired. Part two it is 45 (long) Colt not 45 Scholfield. I hammered it in flush, if you look at the tool from the side you cannot see the end of the case.

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Cowboy, check the Hornady brass that you have. I know that the .44Mag. Hornady Lever loads (forget the exact name) are a shorter brass case than the standard .44Mag.
Set your Win.and your Hornady upright on the bench+be sure that they are the same length. As said before on this thread, a caliper to measure your loads/components will go a long way toward producing a quality hand load.
I load .45Colt for a good friend, and use several different .45 cal. bullets-Yes some that are usually for .45acp. My difference is that I use good QUALITY dies (RCBS+DILLON), and I have hand loaded ammo for almost 40 years.
Cowboy-take the advise of those here that have hand loaded for more years than I==For the price of ONE box (of 50) .45 Colt factory loads, you can buy an economy press and die set, and solve your case size problems..Bill.

+1 for ArchAngelCD.
Get the little Lee press. It is really quite useful.
Now, I can see the idea of loading a .45 Colt similar to the way cowboys did it in the 1890s onward is a "romantic" thought, but a single stage press, even the little Lee, is so much more useful and easy and less tiring and faster.
When my son asked me for my reloading press (Hornady L-N-L progressive), I should have sent him the little Lee. Only problem is, I still use it.

Here's the skinny,

I went out to Midway and put the following in my shopping cart. (1) the little Lee C Bench press; (2) the primer system for the press; (3) set of Lee 45 Long Colt Dies. Cost without the shipping $61.17. If you throw in the Lee scale and shipping you are at a C note.

I had the same issue with a Hornady size die. Turns out Hornady decided to change the sizer dimensions to suit cowboy shooters using .454 sized bullets. They sent me a .454 Casull sizer...problem solved.

Measure the ID of your sizer. Should be about .470 IIRC. If larger, it's designed for old school Colts.

huntincowboy, spend your money on dies, not presses. Arguments can go on
all day long about which is the best press, but in the end, if the thing goes
straight up and down, it is capable of helping the dies do their work. The
press is just sort of the muscle-bound dummy of the process. The Lee press
will work fine, and it is absolutely the least expensive of all the presses. Their
scale works a lot better than it is given credit. Just make sure you balance it
out before proceeding with weighing.

As for dies. The only pistol dies I have are ancient Pacific dies for the .45
Colt. That isn't much help, I know, but they are now known as Hornady. If
the newer expander ball for their pistol dies is anything like the one for
bottle necked rifle dies, I'd look for something else. The expander ball really
pulls unless the case necks are rediculously lubed. I use Forester dies for
rifle cases, but do not know how they work for pistol rounds.

I have had trouble with a number of dies from different makers. Not unusual. Also brass can vary a lot. I started out with a Lee Loader in 44 Mag and never had a problem. You made the right decision getting a standard press. If you have any problems, post here for help. Im glad you didnt give up. Ive been reloading since 1972.

Huntincowboy,

Anything from RCBS, Lyman or Hornady would be good quality, but most of them will be > $100 for the press. Midway has the RCBS Partner single stage press for $79 and they also have a $10 rebate. As for dies, RCBS, Hornady and Redding all make quality dies, though they are more expensive than Lee and Lee dies are actually pretty good.

For single stage press use a 3-Die Carbide set will be fine. Don't worry about the Lee Factory Crimp Die, it is not needed for a revolver.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=779320

Hope this helps

Bii

The press will generally have a priming function, but depending on how you buy it, it might be an add on. Dies have nothing to do with priming, other than the decapping pin that is usually on the resizing die.

I hate to break it to you, but for hand priming on a press, Lee presses have one of the better systems. Maybe you should give Lee a second chance?

I didn't read the posts all that closely, but I don't remember seeing anything mentioned about the expander plug. The case can be perfectly sized, but if the expander is too large...

I too started out with the Lee loaders. I've still got the original 20ga, and .30/30 Lee loaders I started with in the '60's.

The problem you're having is a century old problem endemic to the .45Colt.

The original spec's call for a .454" bullet. As such, the Lee Loader is machined to size for the larger bullet spec's. With a .451" bullet, it most likely indeed will be a loose fit. I have only loaded very few jacketed bullets for the .45Colt. I size my cast bullets to .452" and have no accuracy problems through either my late production Ruger BlackHawk, or my Winchester M94 "Legacy" rifle.

I found that even the Lee standard dies to be on the large side for loading the .45Colt.

I "fixed" that by using a set of Lee Carbide .45acp die set to load my .45Colt ammo. I even went so far as to sell my .45Colt dies to a friend who uses it to load for an older Colt S/A that he uses in cowboy action shooting.

I've had excellent accuracy and performance from some Hornady "blem" 250gr XTP's I got several years ago. They DO have a crimping cannulure as they were made for the .45Colt. Likewise the .451" SST muzzle-loader bullets (for use with a sabot in .50cal rifles) have shot very-very well from my Ruger. I've also loaded and shot some of the 250gr FTX bullets from the lever-action rifle. I did have some seating issues with some nickle plated Starline brass. (sure did make an impressive looking load with the FTX's loaded in the tumbled Nickle cases!). The "modified taper-crimp" of the Lee .45acp seater/crimp die did a nice job on the non-cannulure SST and FTX bullets.

FWIW; The Starline brass is somewhat thicker than most other .45colt brass. This might help in loading with the Lee Loader. The MagTech, Winchester, and Remington brass is much thinner. But, as such, I prefer the MagTech brass for my lead-bullet loads. The thinner brass is much easier to size.

I load .45 Colt regularly with my Lee dies.It does require a bit of pressure to assure the casing is fully inserted in the die,but it works all the time"every time."Never had a problem with sizing.My advise is make sure the casings are properly sized,or maybe
it is a bad die,or as was said earlier,the wrong die.They are all probably differrent,but if it is any help mine is stamped "LEE .45 Colt T-10"..Not sure what the T-10 is?Good luck.

I put in a bullet this way and it didn't go in straight so I put it aside and have considered it unsafe. But assuming I can get them in straight, would there be any pressure issues in doing it this way? It is a very tight fit.

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There won't be any pressure issues, but you'll probably ruin a few bullets and cases without the flare, and even if you don't...you'll swage the lead down a little smaller and possibly wind up with lead fouling and accuracy problems.

I'd send it back and have them reduce the size to .451 or cherry-pick until they find one. The expander you've got is sized for .454 diameter bullets.

I too had problems with the 45 colt loading and .451 bullets. I ended up using a set of 45 ACP dies and a shellholder for the colt brass. It does size for the 45 ACP bullets and they are tight enough for my use without a large roll crimp. As a side note the 45 ACP JHP bullets are for slower velocities than the Casull and will work in the colt ammo well. If you do this you will need to get a standard size "C" press and some dies. I have had excellent luck with the LEE carbide dies and think that your problem is with the Lee Loader size issue and not having .454 or so lead bullets to use, NOT the quality of Lee products in general. This hobby can seem easy when reading while not translating to real results as easily. If you do get the "C" press you need to get the Ram Prime tool or keep the Lee Loader so that you can still prime your brass.

Hope this helps you
Rick

sorry you're having a problem with lee. since they can't, or won't fix your problem, you may want to spend the bucks and get the c-press and carbide dies. my lee press and lee dies work fine reloading .451 or .452 diameter bullets. until you get a smaller expander on you lee loader, you're gonna have problems IMO.

murf

I can assure you that the .454" cast bullets at the "target" velocities will indeed take down a deer.

If you have the Lee "dipper" set, use the 1.0 dipper and Unique powder. This will throw 9.3-10.0gr of Unique and is safe in any but the Colt SAA or "clones". Perhaps even in them too.

This load will run to ~1,000fps and will completely penetrate your average whitetail deer. I know, I've (and some friends) have done it several times.

It leaves a near 1/2" hole all the way through them and usually a broad-short blood trail.

For my .50cal muzzle loader, I use the left over sabots and a 200gr SWC (Lee copy of H&G #68) over 80.0-120.0gr of Pyrodex RS or #777. It knocks a near 1/2" hole through the deer and also a short broad blood trail. It's also very accurate.

The .45Colt bullet is "pre-expanded". It dosen't need additional expanision...
Just adequate bullet/shot placement.

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HUNTINGCOWBOY.....lots of good advice so far...

Now my thoughts on the .45 Colt cartridge loading...

...I have loaded thousands of .45 COLT ammo for CAS over the years. I have LEE 3 die carbide set + Lee pistol crimp die too (not absolutely necessary tho).....(also have set of RCBS carbide .45 Colt dies)...I load on a Dillon 550B press w/powder measure....My bullets are 250/255 gr. LEAD cast & sized/lubed at .452 dia. I use 7.5gr of UNIQUE powder and standard LP primers. A good load that the books say is around 850fps +/-. This load/bullet will kill wild hogs IF bullet placement is correct. Also, all my .45 Colt SAA's are clones so it is safe for them too.

My advice would be to buy the cast lead bullets that are sized/lubed @ .452 in 250/255 gr weight and load away. My brass is mixed, ie several brands over the years....no problems with bullet tension....as noted above I CRIMP with the LEE Pistol Crimp Die...I don't use the built in crimper in the seating die. Die sets all come with good set up instructions.

A good option for you IF you don't want a bench press is the LEE HandPress but it will require a set of CARBiIDE dies to use anyway so, therefore....I'd go with the next jump at LEE for a bench press and get the little 'O" press they sell. For priming buy the LEE handprimer set up and don't look back, it is very good system,

Now, I know you had a less then good experience dealing with LEE so far and I can't say why that was. The fact is tho, they usually have good equipment and it sells for fair prices....try MIDWAY USA for a place to buy.& to review all of the LEE stuff & others on line with them......check them out on the web. Keep us posted on your progress in the reloading game.

HAPPY RELOADING!
IBD