Survival System

I'd say multi-tool, 3-4'' Foler, and a larger fixed blade 5''+. You can probably add in a small lightweight saw if you think you'll need one.

I did most of the Appalachian Trail with these. The Woodmans Pal, a Mora, and a Demo knife. There was also a spare Mora in my pack and the Demo knife was never off a dummy cord. The Woodman's Pal split wood, dug fire pits and cat holes, cut shelter branches for lean-to's, even served as an impromptu climbing axe. The Mora did camp chores, made fuzz sticks and the demo knife did daily chores as well. It also served as a line throwing weight a few times as well. This was over 25 years ago mostly. Sharpening was done with a 2 sided puck stone.



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Today little would change in my kit, there still would be the Moras, the Demo would probably be replaced with a SAK Pioneer or Farmer, and I would keep the Woodman's Pal as well. I would add a survival saw as well, there are many easy to pack saws available today. A Spyderco Duckfoot would be added for sharpening.

I'm thinking that I should include a smaller 3-4" knife for camp chores and field dressing, a larger survival type knife for batoning fire wood and shelter building, and a small saw for general use. I also need to include a sharpener but I'm not sure what is the best type of compact sharpener for backpacking.

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First off, FORGET the large knife for batoning and shelter building. If you can bring an axe, do this. Batoning a knife is a great way to end up with one less knife. The 3-4 inch blade will do will with gutting and skinning.

Gerber has a nice pocket sharpener for a few bucks.

In terms of a saw, a multitool like Swiss Army will get you a small saw. I don't usually need more than this if we have an axe on hand.

I'd focus on your pack having all the items you need for medical emergecies, food, water purification, fire, and shelter.

Kodi Pak



$80-$90

Do you plan to have campfires or cook over a fuel stove? I love a good campfire, but their downside is that they produce sparks that can burn holes in tents, tarps and other things that you'd prefer to avoid having holes in.

If you're not going to have campfires, then saws and axes won't be of much use.

I'm also a fan of Mora fixed blade knives. They're cheap and durable. What more could you ask?

A multi-tool is small and nice to have. Make sure you get one with all the tools you will use and as few tools as possible that you won't use.

In the woods I carry one of my many folders, used for general camping outdoorsy stuff. I also pack a fixed blade with a gut hook and my Cold Steel light machete. A hatchet usually gets strapped to the bag as well. For longer excursions, a folding shovel. I have a Viet Nam era milsurp e-tool for that. I like to have my cast iron skillet along as well, along with some fishing line, fish hooks, sewing needles, water purification tablets, plastic water bottle, metal canteen, 1st aid kit, signal mirror, fire starters, a couple kool-ade packets, tube of crackers or other hi carb snacks. I recently fell in love with those mylar space blankets, and carry one in my survival gear, one in the car, and one in the 1st aid kit at the house.

pack as lite as you can afford. the less stuff wieghs in camping gear the more it costs and easier to take hiking/camping/hunting it is. Bring a small light hatchet instead of a saw and a big knife. Also I would suggest bringing a good beater knife for "chores" and not using your field dressing knife for camping "chores".

Its trial and error I have found out, as soon as you get to where your going you will know what should have been left home and what you should have brought. Its a fun learning curve though so enjoy the woods, try not to get hurt.

Campfire -v- Stove, and Knife Selection

Do you plan to have campfires or cook over a fuel stove? I love a good campfire, but their downside is that they produce sparks that can burn holes in tents, tarps and other things that you'd prefer to avoid having holes in.

If you're not going to have campfires, then saws and axes won't be of much use.

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Just thinkin' out loud . . .

Depending on the exercise, I would lean toward carrying the saw & axe over a fuel stove. Yes, the saw and axe mean more effort and assume the availability of firewood but there is considerably more versatility in having cutting tools handy. A stove will do one or two things (cooking and heating), but its usefulness stops when the fuel runs out. A saw and axe will not only provide fuel, but shelter as well -- on top of which they enable you to make other tools and weapons.

Again, all of this depends on the exercise at hand, but I would tend to lean that way.

Even in a scenario where I would take a stove, there would be a selection of basic cutting tools in the truck, if not on my person.

What is your survival system when you are in the woods? Do you believe in having one knife that does it all, or do you believe in having multiple knives? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Disclaimer: it's been a while since I was in the woods, so my remarks are partly based on "the way it used to be" and partly on what I've learned of knifes and my uses for them in the last five years.

Back In The Day (tm), I mostly carried a bolo knife (like a machete, but shorter and heavier). It was fine for light-to-medium chopping, and was effective in certain brush clearing. Today, if I wanted an all around chopping tool, I think I'd look at a kukri, which can be a bit longer, weighs about the same, and is better balanced for chopping without giving up the brush clearing utility. Failing that, I'd go with a light axe or hatchet. Unless you're carrying your own shelter (tent, etc.) you'll need a chopper to fashion what you require.

Back In The Day (tm), I always carried a four-blade army/scout-style knife (a SAK clone) in a pocket or pouch. On one memorable occasion, it was the only can opener we had. Very handy. I'm very comfortable with that kind of knife, having carried one (that same one) for twenty years. Today, although I still have a SAK clone either on my person or nearby (in the truck), I carry a Leatherman Wave on my belt. It's everything the scout knife is (save only for the corkscrew, and I don't carry wine when I'm roughing it), and more, with two kinds of main knife blade, pliers, can/bottle opener, screwdrivers, file, small saw, and scissors. I have no problem at all recommending a Leatherman-type multi-tool. Pick a brand you like and a tool combo that suits you.

Back In The Day (tm), I carried a fixed blade of some kind (I had an old Western sheath knife for a while, and later I carried a Gerber Shorty [no longer made]). Today, that would be two knives. My everyday carry includes a full-sized folder, usually one of the EKA locking blades (check my other posts for pictures). I use it for all kinds of stuff, including kitchen duty. It's the next best thing to a fixed blade, and carries more easily. Rides on my belt in a horizontal pouch. However, on the trail I'm gonna have a fixed blade of some kind. Something with some quality. Length not to exceed six inches, with four or five inches being preferred.

Now, that's four knives: a chopper, a general handy knife (multi-tool), a full-sized folder, and a medium fixed blade.

If I knew I was headed out for a specific activity, like fishing, there would be a folding fillet knife in the mix somewhere. If hunting, then my fixed blade would be suited to field dressing and such. If just hiking/camping, I would take care that at least one of my knives would serve well in the kitchen, and be prepared to clean random fish or game as needed.

Looking over the above, I see that I've selected four knives that ride on my belt, which is fine, since there's room on it, but I see that leaves me with an unoccupied front pocket. Well, nature abhors an unoccupied front pocket. There's just something indecent about it. So, for the front pocket, I would take a good quality multi-blade knife, something like a medium stockman or a whittler, to occupy that space. Others will prefer a different pattern, like maybe a Barlow or a peanut or a trapper.

Now we're up to five knives (well, maybe four knives and a hatchet).

So, could I get along with just one or two knives? Sure. I did it for years. Over two decades it was a SAK clone and a bolo or small sheath knife -- sometimes both. Now that I'm better acquainted with the different patterns, I don't mind the extra couple of ounces for the extra function.

As I type this, I'm currently out in the wilds of our software development lab, and I'm carrying four knives: full-sized folder, multi-tool, SAK, and a gentleman's folder. Out in the far reaches of the parking lot, the truck has an axe, survival machete, saw, large and small folding knives, bait knife(s), fillet knife, SAK, and a fixed blade (but I can't remember which one). 'Cuz, hey, you just never know.

Arfrin - I wasn't necessarily suggesting that one replace a knife and/or saw with a stove. I can, however, see how you might have read it that way. Mainly, I was pointing out that sparks from a wood fire can easily ruin some fairly expensive gear, like a nice, waterproof tent.

I don't tend to make weapons on my hunting or backpacking trips so I didn't see a lot of value in carrying a saw or axe for that purpose.

Usually I have a saw in my pack even if I don't plan on making a fire. An axe, on the other hand, is a luxury generally reserved for trips where I'm not carrying the load myself.

To address your question on a light weight sharpening system, I have a diamond stone about the size and thickness of a credit card with a fine grit on one side and medium on the other. Have a couple and don't rembember where I got them. Seems like one came from MooreMaker.

Developing a survival system for the woods requires a lot of thought and planning. Where are you going and what to do you need? What are you willing to carry? I carry three items which, so far, have allowed me the flexibility to meet every contingent situation I have encountered (so far). They are a Becker Campanion knife , a Leatherman Surge
, and a backpack saw (sorry no pic) and with this array I can do just about anything I need to do.

Sparks & Holes

Mudinyeri said:

Arfrin - I wasn't necessarily suggesting that one replace a knife and/or saw with a stove. I can, however, see how you might have read it that way. Mainly, I was pointing out that sparks from a wood fire can easily ruin some fairly expensive gear, like a nice, waterproof tent.

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Yeah, I got that, actually, and I don't actually have a good answer for the holes thing. I've been there, and I don't think we ever really solved the sparks-blowing-in-the-wind problem. Of course, now that I think about it, there is a hole-in-the-ground fire pit thing that pretty much eliminates sparks . . . I'll have to look that up again.

I don't tend to make weapons on my hunting or backpacking trips so I didn't see a lot of value in carrying a saw or axe for that purpose.

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Me neither. I was offering that in the context of the thread title. Kind of along the lines of "you won't get a lot of hunting done with a knife, but with a knife you can make something to hunt with."

Usually I have a saw in my pack even if I don't plan on making a fire. An axe, on the other hand, is a luxury generally reserved for trips where I'm not carrying the load myself.

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I will defer to your more current experience. I haven't been camping since I was maybe thirty-ish years old, and back then I didn't mind an extra couple of pounds or so. Today I would probably mind.

I keep both of these in my daypack. I have personally used the sabre cut saw from UST to cut a 9-10" dia hedge log on a bet. While being a little fatigued after making the cut Hedge is tough wood. It cut through it in less than a minute and a half. No binding in cut and it is still sharp.

Not to get too far off the path here... but while hardware discussion is helpful, don't ignore the software. I highly recomend the book "Deep Survival" by Lawrence Gonzales. The subtitle is "who lives, who dies, and why" and it ain't about fire, food, and shelter but it is about how easily simple things can go wrong and about what has to happen mentally to survive.

ArfinGreebly said:

I will defer to your more current experience. I haven't been camping since I was maybe thirty-ish years old, and back then I didn't mind an extra couple of pounds or so. Today I would probably mind.

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Yeah, as the knees and back start to go so does the weight in the pack.

I know I'm not putting a cast iron skillet in my backpack!!

I know I'm not putting a cast iron skillet in my backpack!!

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I would rather leave my rifle than my cast iron. Nothing in this world better than breakfast cooked on a camp fire using a cast iron skillet. Some things just can't be replaced with light weight aluminum.

My spine needs to be replaced already... so I think I'll just have to have the tastebuds take one for the team.

You're right though, nothing better than a cast iron skillet!

Sorry, No Aluminum

I'll cook in cast iron, stainless steel, titanium, glass, crockery, or a flat rock.

But not aluminum. Could I use it short-term? Yeah. And I've used non-stick coated aluminum. But the uncoated, shiny, save-ounces-on-the-trail kind is a non-starter.

On the other hand, I can't see lugging a hunk of iron around in the back woods, either.

My emergency pack has lightweight stainless components for cooking, and if I could find/afford a Ti set, I'd put that in there instead.

Love cooking in iron, but I ain't horsing that stuff around on my back.

Anybody have experience with cooking using titanium?

It comes plain and with a non stick coating. Uncoated it sticks like steel or aluminum will if you don't (1) preheat to cooking temp and (2) don 't use oil.

Fiskers makes some nice lightweight saws for hiking I like this one (i hope the picture loaded).

It slides into the handle and has a clip for hangling on your pack.

I bought the older model without clip and softgrip on clearance at OSH hardware for under $10 to put in a BOB.

They have sturdier models if you plan on sawing more.

I bought a Scrapyard Mil-Regulator for my EOTWAWKI knife and I like it because it seems indestuctible but at .33 thick it weighs a ton - it'll be more for in the truck than in the pack.

I've gotten more use out of my woodsmans pal than any knife but I would still cary 2 or 3 just in case.