Batoning is bogus
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lobo9er
Member
ha the MEGA THREAD is revisited. Batoning is not ideal but it works in a pinch. And of course an axe is better. Its also fun learning new techniques and skills. I will however take back some of my defense of the video, he was clearly just wailing on the knife in a ridiculous fashion. I am a bit bias against cold steel. 2:30 is awesome lol he beats the snot outta that knife. lol
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lobo9er
Member
TimboKhan
Member
I basically agree with this. I got into some huge argument on here at some point a couple of years ago with some guy that hated batoning, and while I agreed that it wasn't the best thing, I just could not get him to agree that it's better to know the right way to do it and not need it than vice versa. I just don't understand why some people are so hardcore about not learning how to do it. No one in their right mind would argue that it is somehow superior to using an ax or a hatchet, but in the absence of an ax or a hatchet, why not use your knife? It's just another skill to have, and nothing more.
I have batoned a couple of things, but it was more just to see how to do it, and if I ever needed to, I could, so thats nice.
lobo9er
Member
Timbokhan, I agree. The guy from the UK in the MEGA THREAD was the same way. He was going off about how he works in the woods and what not. Batoning is not an axe replacement and not for logging. Its a technique to use while camping if needs be. When I go hiking in to camp I'm not going to carry an axe. (usually) I will however take a stout knife. Everybody's different I suppose.
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beatledog7
Member
I grant that batoning is a relatively slow and inefficient way to create usable wood from wood that's too big. But I don't carry a axe in my truck or on my motorcycle.
Like any last resort methodology, it's not the preferred methodology, but it works in a pinch. Having a knife that can do it reasonably well without giving up other characteristics more in keeping with traditional uses for a field knife makes sense. By default, batoning beats having no way to split wood at all. If you choose a field knife can't do it, you're surrendering an option.
Like any last resort methodology, it's not the preferred methodology, but it works in a pinch. Having a knife that can do it reasonably well without giving up other characteristics more in keeping with traditional uses for a field knife makes sense. By default, batoning beats having no way to split wood at all. If you choose a field knife can't do it, you're surrendering an option.
Since this thread came back, I'd like to add a couple things.
I like options...
Hand axe
Wooden wedge
Knife..
I have used all three, as you can tell.
Now I am not disagreeing here. However , wood selection and proper technique are far more important than what knife you have. If you will allow me to demonstrate.
The section of wood that my F1 split above is frozen, but it is straight grained Poplar. Easy to split so once the F1 made manageable chunks I split it down further with a very odd "field knife" choice.
A knife I carry every day that cost a whole $25, is made in China out of a cheap stainless steel (5CR15MoV), has a 3" Wharncliffe blade. Is hollow ground, and the tapered spine is 1/16" thick at its thickest point.
Enter the CRKT Folts S.P.E.W, the batoning beast.
No chips, rolling, and the tip is even intact ! So ,in general, if you are carefull, batoning will not destroy your knife.
Still in one piece...
I like options...
Hand axe
Wooden wedge
Knife..
I have used all three, as you can tell.
Now I am not disagreeing here. However , wood selection and proper technique are far more important than what knife you have. If you will allow me to demonstrate.
The section of wood that my F1 split above is frozen, but it is straight grained Poplar. Easy to split so once the F1 made manageable chunks I split it down further with a very odd "field knife" choice.
A knife I carry every day that cost a whole $25, is made in China out of a cheap stainless steel (5CR15MoV), has a 3" Wharncliffe blade. Is hollow ground, and the tapered spine is 1/16" thick at its thickest point.
Enter the CRKT Folts S.P.E.W, the batoning beast.
No chips, rolling, and the tip is even intact ! So ,in general, if you are carefull, batoning will not destroy your knife.
Still in one piece...
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T.R.
Member
I recently handled a cheap made in China hatchet at a flea market. Cost was $7.00. Why baton with a good knife when cheapy hatchets are available?
TR
TR
JimStC
Member
A skill (batoning) is like a tool. My preference is to have more tools than I need rather than less tools than I need. Do I use all the tools in my tool box? No. Am I glad I have all the tools in case I do need one? Yes.
To me that is the essence of this thread.........
Jim
To me that is the essence of this thread.........
Jim
For me it is weight. My kit I carry hiking weighs 10lbs, water and food included, when I bring my hand axe. It weighs 8lbs minus my hand axe.
Now 2lbs doesn't seem like much, but in the warmer months the axe isn't as valuable a tool to me. So it stays home.
Yep, weight of the tool, but as has been pointed out it is a skill to get a knife to perform in a pinch when you don't have the correct tool.
dayhiker's photo showing how a carved wedge will split wood matches my experience. Make a big piece into pieces small enough to split with a knife by carving a wedge to get there without putting your knife at risk.
dayhiker's photo showing how a carved wedge will split wood matches my experience. Make a big piece into pieces small enough to split with a knife by carving a wedge to get there without putting your knife at risk.
HoosierQ
Member
Chuck Norris never batons. Wood splits itself out of respect and fear. So he's good.
mdauben
Member
I always looked at it as an emergency technique, not something to do on a regular basis. Even then I don't really like the idea of risking the destruction of what might be your most important survival tool. Of course, I've had people on other forums tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and label me an "armchair expert" (I guess 40 years of experience hiking and back country camping from FL to AK doesn't count if its not documented on YouTube!). I just shrug my shoulders and go back to splitting wood with an axe like god intended.
I spent many many many nights backpacking, camping, fire building, hunting, scavenging and never once needed split wood for a fire or shelter. I domt live everywhere for sure, but i dont think it would be my biggest hangup. To each his own I guess.
rtrwv
Member
al mar sere folder
Out of necessity I used my almar sere folder to baton some kindling at a rental in the smoky mtns. Only knife i HAD WITH ME.....left my go bag in the garage forgot to pack it. It worked well though my little greco hatchet has since been with me 24/7 and taken care of that issue. Have to add the little almar really takes a butt load of beating from me a real user.
Out of necessity I used my almar sere folder to baton some kindling at a rental in the smoky mtns. Only knife i HAD WITH ME.....left my go bag in the garage forgot to pack it. It worked well though my little greco hatchet has since been with me 24/7 and taken care of that issue. Have to add the little almar really takes a butt load of beating from me a real user.
cauldron
Member
Once a year I go camping in up-state NY. The firewood is cut to length, and there are 'flats' from the log being made square at the mill. They don't burn well as is. They lay flay and snuff the fire. They are about an inck thick, and spliting with a knife is fast and easy for getting a pile of sticks to start the fire. Some of the pieces are so straight grained and thin, I showed someone how to split them with a crowbar. Just lay the wood flat and smack it.
I've only had to split wood while camping other places where fire wood is found instead of bought. I do it to get a clean burning fire for cooking. The sticks smoke more, and make more ash, and less coals.
I could split with an ax, or a hatchet, but I don't need that much wood, and I already have a knife. Winter camping is where an ax gets used more than a knife.
I've never hurt a knife batoning, but I've seen people use a hammer to baton a hatchet, or a rock on a knife spine. I'd never do either... I've also never hurt my hand.
Other than the odd flat pieces of wood, or to make a clean cook fire, it's not something I do often. It is a viable skill though, and can be done wrong or correctly. Some people use three types of rope and two dozen knots just setting up camp. Seems like overkill to me, but it makes them happy, and doesn't hurt.
I've only had to split wood while camping other places where fire wood is found instead of bought. I do it to get a clean burning fire for cooking. The sticks smoke more, and make more ash, and less coals.
I could split with an ax, or a hatchet, but I don't need that much wood, and I already have a knife. Winter camping is where an ax gets used more than a knife.
I've never hurt a knife batoning, but I've seen people use a hammer to baton a hatchet, or a rock on a knife spine. I'd never do either... I've also never hurt my hand.
Other than the odd flat pieces of wood, or to make a clean cook fire, it's not something I do often. It is a viable skill though, and can be done wrong or correctly. Some people use three types of rope and two dozen knots just setting up camp. Seems like overkill to me, but it makes them happy, and doesn't hurt.
Readyrod
Member
If you are camping and using small wood you are probably better off with a small folding saw. If you are only splitting small wood a beefy knife should be fine. Specially if you don't want to carry too much gear. IMHO a knife is more versatile than an axe or a hatchet. Thing is if you are getting into chopping bigger wood I'd take a hatchet or axe, and a larger saw. They are made for the job and they do it well.
I'm with dayhiker - I rarely carry a tomahawk unless I am just car camping. They are very useful to have around.
There have been times when the only wood available was a few twigs for kindling, and some very big branches - too big to be useful. On those days I have regretted not having a camp saw or a tomahawk. So I could see "battoning" as being a useful skill under some circumstances. But I normally don't have a survival knife with a large heavy blade that can take that kind of beating.
CA R
There have been times when the only wood available was a few twigs for kindling, and some very big branches - too big to be useful. On those days I have regretted not having a camp saw or a tomahawk. So I could see "battoning" as being a useful skill under some circumstances. But I normally don't have a survival knife with a large heavy blade that can take that kind of beating.
CA R
But...dayhiker also demonstrated with his SPEW that knives used in batoning needn't be beefy.
I personally have only used batoning as a test of a knife's strength, but that doesn't mean it doesn't fit anywhere in some folk's repetoir.
John
I personally have only used batoning as a test of a knife's strength, but that doesn't mean it doesn't fit anywhere in some folk's repetoir.
John
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