Let the trash talking begin!!!

The thing I really got from this was to use quality, modern SD ammo.

Forgetting caliber, take a look at the make/line of ammo used and see which ones expanded and which ones didn't. Case in point, the .357mag. I don't know which company it was, but it looks like an old fashioned SJHP. What happened when bare? It worked. What happened when it hit clothing? It clogged.
I'd love to have seen what would happen had they used a Speer Gold Dot though. $10 says it would go through the clothing and expanded normally.

sc1911cwp said:

Clothing, water, plastic and wood are not human flesh. Something tells tell that most people would shoot alot, if not more, regardless of what they were hit with. So the best test is for a person to tell you what it feels like and see the recovered bullets, if any.

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We should have "the pig of truth".

Put him on a jersey like this

I never shot any bad guys, but the 9mm HP's, 90-125gr, do a magnificent job on groundhogs, and they don't always die easy. I imagine some big bad guys can be tougher than groundhog, but I'd bet that many go down just as well with a 9mm HP hit.

Well, I'm stickin' with .45ACP Ball........IMO, penetration is of the utmost importance and don't expect to be robbed by anyone naked........no place to hide the money.

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A JHP that doesn't expand penetrates exaclty the same as an FMJ of the same weight at the same velocity, and if clothes defeat a JHP they do it by preventing expansion, not diminishing penetration.

The Box O' Truth is a sporadic thing. He leaves his testing stand for years in some instances. Ammunition is a dynamically evolving subject. Testing should be done with the latest designs, and under a little more controlled circumstances.

Another good example is the use of outdated .410 ammunition, and their tests, to denigrate the Judge and Governor. I don't think that they make some of those loads in that form any longer. Yet, we have people quoting them like they were actually true.

I'd rather see tests with ballistic gelatin. Put clothes on whatever. I think it would be more realistic.

I don't know ... maybe I'm missing the whole point of the experiment but the thing that caught my attention the most was the first 9MM shot he took. That is an example of what I DON'T want a bullet to do!

If you're shooting at a bad guy the last thing you want to have happen is for that bullet to pass though him ... you want every iota of energy to be expended IN the target! Second, I'd hate to shoot a bad guy only to have my bullet go completely through and hit an innocent.

Sometimes, I think we underestimate how much damage and pain can be inflicted by a metal object blowing into someone's body. To me, HPs are icing on the cake! Even if the bullet fails to expand or if you are just shooting plain ball ammo the shock of that bullet tearing into him is going to, at the very least, slow him down ... we're not talking about the friggin' Terminator we're talking about a normal human being.

And before somebody counters me with a well what if he was high on something ... That's why nobody walks around with single-shot pistols! ;-)

Take care & Be Safe!!!

Frank
NJGunOwner81

remember, you want the bullet to stay in the target not pass through, it does more damage that way. the 9mm bullet piercing through the whole setup is not a good argument for 9mm as a SD round. a 45 weighing twice as much and expanding to about a third inch larger diameter going about the same speed is going to do more damage in every case.

The bullets are designed to expand in soft tissue. Better tests are available by tnoutdoors9 on YouTube. He uses fabric and then jugs full of wet newspaper.

I read somewhere that 80% of all people shot with handguns survive. That was all handguns and all situations - accidental or otherwise. Wasn't broken down by caliber.

That has more to do with the standards of Emergency Medicine, and the spread of Trauma Centers than you'd think. They can now intervene in a timely manner, and save those who would have died just a few short decades ago.

The most important thing that this BoT teaches us: bullets may perform differently than the advertisers tell you they will. Second lesson: Clothing may have an effect on JHP ammo.

While they are both "duh" lessons, the BoT has proven both of these things. The rest is just for fun.

All I took from this is that a water jug =/= a human. And using out of date ammo just proves new ammo is better. BoT is about as scientific as judging a 2011 Corvette's performance based on how the shell of the same car would do with a VW Bug's engine...

Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.

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-DocGKR http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887&highlight=clothing

If you are going to have any sort of meaningful test, you've got to use better testing procedures than that and use modern self defense ammo.

I know this is the handgun forum

What happened to the 5.56? He just shows a picture of the hole in the first board, is that where is stopped? Or did it go through all 3?