Gun Fires After Falling From Pocket: What are the physics here?

Wow, so sad. This is why a gun safe and a brain are required around children. Some kids will be responsible, but this one obviously wasn't, nor were their parents. Back on topic, it would really help to know the type and brand of the gun. Certain manufacturers make it all but impossible for a drop-fire.

Not enough information.

I agree with your initial thought; dropped guns don't normally fire, unless...

Without knowing the type of firearm involved, speculation is somewhat pointless.

This is sad on several levels. Parents weren't watching, the child had no proper instruction (just for the tally book, "Don't EVER touch this!" is not proper instruction), the other kids are hurt, other parents are panicked and all gun owners look just a little more negligent. At least in the popular press.

A modern design quality firearm won't fire when dropped... However, an old design or low quality firearm might stand a very good chance of discharging when dropped.

Having had a look around the neighborhood where this school is located, I'm going to venture out on a limb and say that this probably demonstrates that Raven, Lorcin, Jimenez or Jennings firearms aren't drop safe.

Almost all modern handguns are "drop safe." When you hear of a gun falling and discharging, it could be a few things (the following list is not necessarily exhaustive):

1) Older/super cheap, low quality pistol with no drop safeties
2) Bubba'd/improperly modified actions
3) Someone grabbed the trigger in a desperate attempt to catch the thing before it hit the ground.

Normally, with adults, it is #3. Never, ever try to catch a falling gun. Just let it fall. But in this case, I don't know. I wonder whether this kid lived in the kind of home where the parents are crack addicts and generally leave all manner of old, stolen jennings and such lying around... those aren't always drop safe.

it was a 6 yr old, we dont know what type of gun it was. it could of been a old revolver with 6 in the cylinder or a auto gun cocked and unlocked.whats bad is that he even had access to it.

In any firearm safety manual it states that a firearm can discharge accidently if dropped.
As far as the child having a firearm-that's why firearms need to be locked away from children access.

Also, I was wondering what kind of gun would fit in a 6 year old's pocket? The kind of pants a 6 year old wears generally have MUCH smaller pockets than adult clothing, and it's hard enough to fit a decent sized pistol into a pants pocket without it being obvious. As always, there's lots more to this story...

injured
One bullet was fired about 10:35 a.m
might have been injured by shrapnel
All three children were in stable condition
Parents were allowed to take their children home for the day
...and counselors were on hand
...made some wonder if additional security measures are needed
Sarabia said extra security officers will be at the school
... the kindergartner who brought the gun could face disciplinary action including being sent to an alternative school

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Lurid coverage. Bet it was a cap gun.

ok first, looks like gun pointed at floor / bullet fragments on feet...
second, the gun rotated 270 degrees from the height of a 6yr old sitting? and fired?

Sometimes when an automatic lands directlt on the muzzle the firing pin will continue forward with enough inertia to pop the primer. This is potential problem that Colt addressed with the firing pin block in the serise '80 pistols. Kimber came out with an improved version of this that does not change the trigger pull. Something tells me that this kid had a small, cheap older model automatic that is no longer imported.

How big are the pockets in a 6-year old's jeans?

I know there are some small handguns out there, but I'm pretty sure none of my handguns would fit in a kindergartner's pocket. We can probably rule out most of the old SA revolvers too...

Ruger Mk 3's will go off if the LCI is hit hard enough. Why they put one on a rimfire is beyond me.

A bit offtopic here but ...

I always read these stories in which *one bulle* is fired, usually as an ND.
And like ... anywhere from four to ten people are hurt. And I have to ask, what's the physics behind this?

Nushif said:

A bit offtopic here but ...

I always read these stories in which *one bulle* is fired, usually as an ND.
And like ... anywhere from four to ten people are hurt. And I have to ask, what's the physics behind this?

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I think what happened is that students were hit by shrapnel, either pieces of tile ejected by the bullet on impact, or by jacket fragments. It sounds like the injuries were just cuts to the feet of the students, and that they were upright and talking when they left the building.

probably a lorcin or raven etc., if it is indeed what happened

I cannot credit the story as written. The Sherlock in me says something was misreported.

It used to be a lot more common and it did not need to be a cheap gun either. There is a reason S&W and Ruger put those firing pin blocks in place and for what Colt did in the series 80 1911.

vvanders said:

Ruger Mk 3's will go off if the LCI is hit hard enough. Why they put one on a rimfire is beyond me.

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Only the earliest MK IIIs had the all metal LCI and they were recalled and the parts replaced.
Read this thread about the parts. The recall information is in post #10.
Bullseye's Ruger update
Joe

Kel-Tec P-11 isn't "drop-safe"...........

Put yourself in the kid's shoes. You have a gun at school that your aren't supposed to have. You are showing your friend the gun, under the table in the lunch room, "Hey, Bobby, look at this!"

As you are showing the gun to your friend under the table in the lunch room, you pull the trigger and the gun goes off, the bullet hits the floor, fragments, hitting kids in the legs under the table. When the gun goes off, you jump and drop the gun.

Exactly what are you, six years old, going to tell the authorities? "I dropped it and it went off!"

I see no proof at all of any gun, in this story, being dropped and then going off.

Of course, the "it went off when it was dropped" is an explanation that suits the Brady Campaign and anti-gun groups much better than the kid pulled the trigger. Why? Because they can now point to the gun as being the dangerous object instead of the person behind the gun. That's what they like to do. It's all the gun's fault and the kid or the parents had nothing to do with it, so we must ban the guns.

I'll bet you a paycheck the correct headline would be "Gun fires when kid negligently pulls the trigger in lunch room and then drops the gun."

I've been doing a lot of reading lately regarding the probability of a gun firing from the force of a drop. Up until I read this article, I was reasonably convinced that a dropped gun would not fire except in very rare circumstances.

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I used to date a lady who worked loading luggage for the air lines. If you ever picked up your shredded or dented luggage at the end of a trip, you know the hard impacts they get in transit. Pre TSA, there were number of reports of loaded firearms discharging inside luggage. Baggage handlers would toss the luggage around and bang!

A cheap Raven or Jenning striker fired auto pistol, heck yes I can see these things firing if dropped.

In so far as the Ruger MkIII load chamber indicator, a bud of mine bought one of the first MkIII's. The LCI caused all sorts of failures to eject and stovepiping. That LCI rested directly on the rim of a cartridge in the chamber, when the round was fired it tended to knock the cartridge off the bolt face during extraction.

We looked at the thing and realised that if you hit the LCI, with its flange resting on the rim, you could possibly fire the cartridge.

We took the thing to a machine shop and had the flange milled off. The pistol has functioned flawlessly since then.

If Ruger can pull such a boner, I have no doubt there are other stupid, dangerous designs out there.

Will be interesting to see how it really played out if/when all the facts come out...I'd be inclined to agree with NavyLT,
at least at first glance...seems the more likely scenario...we'll see, I suppose. More importantly, how the heck did this kid get his hands on the gun...(The obvious aside) Says something about the parenting...or lack thereof...