Gun Fires After Falling From Pocket: What are the physics here?

HSO had it right, but everyone else I think is psychic as they seem to know what happened.

Tacbandit said:

amazing...no facts on the firearm, yet some are able to figure out the physics involved, and even the brand of pistol...

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I find the acceptance of the "I dropped it and it went off" story to be amazing.

I hear ya, NavyLT...as you can see, I went back and changed that post...didn't want to offend any
of the psychic insiders...lol...who knows...your thoughts on the idea make more sense than most of what I've read so far...I'm sure that he dropped it...and it went off...that much of the physics portion is true...only, probably not in that order...

Every time I hear one of these news stories about how a dropped gun discharged the first word that pops into my head rhymes with wool-spit.


$10 says that the kid was playing with the gun, pulled the trigger causing it to discharge and THEN dropped it.

EVERY modern firearm made since the early days of the 20th century is "drop safe". Even a POS gun like a Jennings/Bryco is not likely to discharge when being dropped.

I am aware of a 10 - 15 year-old S&W 44 Magnum, loaded with hammer cocked that was knocked out of someone's hands, the gun landed on a concrete floor (remember, the hammer was back!) and the gun did NOT DISCHARGE!

The fact that this one I am mentioning did NOT go off is, I think, a good demonstration of how safe firearms are today.

I am NOT saying, however, that anyone should "test" or "try" the above, as we all know that anything is possible.

To directly answer the OP's question.

Yes, it can happen. Yes it is a very rare event.

It has to do with the hammer/striker and not the trigger.

Well, we can be sure of one thing.
When the real details emerge, if there is anything "anti-gun" about any part of it, that will be the emphasis. I'm sure most of the major news networks will not blame the parents, but, instead will blame guns and gun-ownership in general.

The kid could have dropped a large kitchen knife and have as many people injured, if the surrounding kids saw it happen and tried to grab it on the way down!

EVERY modern firearm made since the early days of the 20th century is "drop safe". Even a POS gun like a Jennings/Bryco is not likely to discharge when being dropped.

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That is just not true. Its not even true this century for US military weapons since M16s have a free floating firing pin and have discharged when dropped and shot soldiers. Firing pin blocks became widely used in the 80s. The big difference in the series 80s 1911 was the addition of a firing pin block, now they use a strong spring. The industry did not decide they needed to redesign their product lines because nothing was happening. Dropping something once proves nothing. If you have a million units of something out there once in a million odds happen.

How tall could this kid be, 3 ft. He's in kindergarden not a Ny Knick. The gun couldn't have fallen from higher than a foot or 18 inches tops. I think something else happened and they just felt it best left unsaid. I know witha nay new gun at that height it would have to be a one in a million chance that it would go off and hit more than 1 kid. As far a crappy guns go, yes all the oned mentioned "could" go off, but it's still a stretch unless it was tossed up in the air.

Even a POS gun like a Jennings/Bryco is not likely to discharge when being dropped.

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I would disagree with the Jennings. I inherited one when my gramps passed. A jennings J-22. There is a single very small and very flexible piece of plastic that keeps the firing pin from moving forward and setting the gun off. I am not crazy enough to test it loaded but after a good cleaning and reassembly I cocked it pointed it at the ground and slapped it on the side a few times as hard as I could (with no contact with the trigger). It went off after a couple good hits. Dropping it 1-2 feet out of a pocket onto a hard floor you'd find in a school cafeteria. I could definitely see it going off.

Now my M&P I think I could hit that with a hammer and it would not AD (not a test I am going to try though), especially with the safety engaged.

At this time we have no idea what type of gun he had though, its condition and, what, if any, mods it may have had done to it so I guess that argument is pointless. But I could see a drop setting something like that off.

The real issue though, IMO, is why was a loaded firearm left where a 6 yr old could get it. Sorry, when it comes to a 6 yr old, I am not going to let his/her judgement be the only thing keeping my firearms from walking away.

I know someone who dropped a BHP clone and it went off. Now I wasn't there when it happened but I've seen the holes. He had the hammer down and thought it was safer like that but I explained to him that's probably why it discharged. It fell about 2 1/2 to 3 feet.

I have a worn out Mauser 1914 that will go off if the trigger is wiggled from side to side. I'm sure it didn't do that when new...

I also have a Colt MK IV Series 80 that's had it's FPB pulled and the trigger worked on. I really don't trust that one to be dropped.

I've taken enough Lorcins, Jennings, Ravens and other cheap guns off the street in such horrible states of disrepair that I wouldn't trust them at all to not go off if dropped.

Let's not even talk about SA revolvers that don't have transfer bars.

Modern, quality design, factory standard and well maintained firearms are almost immune to discharge from dropping but there's a long history of of crappy designs, bubba smith'd and old guns going off just for being looked at... The Japanese were experts at it.

It was a Walther P-22 and the kid probably pulled the trigger trying to pick it up. The story is a touch unclear as an AD is more lawsuit fun than a ND.

Wait.

There you go, there is more to this than they are letting out

For the (very) little its worth, I'll bet a bundle on there being a bullet hole in the kid's "cargo pocket". Kid grabs gun to show it off. Gun snags on pocket. Kid yanks on gun.....bang !!

What isn't being addressed is how he got his hands on it in the first place, or managed to get it out of the house, or into school........ Seems like yet another "parenting" issue to me....... >MW

FWIW, the pistol is reported to be a .380. It was carried to school in a pair of oversized pants. The kid was 6 years old, the others involved were 5 and 6.
The cops/school are "not sure" if the kids were hit by a bullet, bullet fragments or fragments from the school cafeteria floor. No serious injury was reported although one of the kids leaves the hospital today.
The mother is not talking.
Knowing the accuracy of reporting from the Houston Chronicle, my guess is that some of the reported facts are subject to further scrutiny..

P.R.

Oh, I see - it is one of the new 380s that follow the P-22 looks. On the tube, it looked like a P-22.

Even most "small cheap import automatics" are resistant to this. so long as they are in good repair.

I know my Astra has two hammer catches..the final catch (the full-cock) is a slightly lower profile catch than the half-cock. How that works is when you release the trigger, your finger pulls back and smoothly releases the trigger past the half-cock catch before it is even engaged, thus it fires.

In the event it's dropped, the drop must be severe enough to clear both catches...without constant trigger pressure, it will more than likely engage the half-cock sear, thus no discharge. It's an odd design in that's it's actually safer to keep it on full-cock than half-cock...since in half-cock if it clears it (same drop conditions might do it), the hammer is on the pin, which is now on the primer. Although there was not enough velocity to fire, if it bounces around and then lands on the hammer, you'll have some undesired complications. Full-cock just adds one more layer of defense against that condition occuring.

Gun Fires After Falling From Pocket: What are the physics here?

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Since everyone claims that it's either impossible, very rare, never can happen my only conclusion is that it must be a "Houston" thing. Our geography must make guns act funny. Here is another one about a gun falling out of a pocket and then going off.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/110114-elderly-woman-shot-kingwood-restaurant

The Derringer from Acera's link was likely an "pre-safety" Derringer, or one that was not cocked, thus the safety was disabled.

In a true Derringer, if the hammer is not cocked, it sits right on the firing pin and can actually fire a round simply by striking the back of the hammer hard enough with your other hand (I did this once for a CC range demonstration I did for some co-workers who wanted a Derringer..I fired off both barrels by hitting the hammer with a glove with a Kydex "poke protector" on the bottom edge of it...fired on the first strike each time).

Derringers with only a half-cock should be carried in a thumb-break holster with covered triggerguard ONLY...and Derringers with a hammer-block safety are the only ones that should be considered for any other carry than a thumb-break covered trigger design. Ones lacking both should simply not be carried, as they're a bad day waiting to happen.

I'm a Derringer fan myself, up until I had to sell it to pay some bills, I used to CC a .22WMR derringer, with a hammer-block safety and half-cock. Cobra quality isn't great, but the gun was plenty safe provided I used the safety features as they were designed to be used.

wow6599

Kel-Tec P-11 isn't "drop-safe"...........

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more information would be appreciated. an unsupported statement lacks credability...even if it may true.

I know someone who dropped a BHP clone and it went off. Now I wasn't there when it happened but I've seen the holes. He had the hammer down and thought it was safer like that but I explained to him that's probably why it discharged. It fell about 2 1/2 to 3 feet.

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I have one and when the hammer is down the firing pin doesn't touch the primer. When it fires the firing pin "travels" away from the hammer and then strikes the primer. The firing pin can't be touching both the hammer and the primer at the same time. When the hammer is down it is all the way down with no space for it too move. The only way I could see it discharging with the hammer all the way down is the firing pin moving with its own inertia and striking the primer or your friend actually carried it with the gun at half cock which is unsafe with the Hi Power.

Not saying it didn't happen just that having the hammer down wasn't to blame.

A Baby Browning with the safety on can fire when dropped as can any similar striker fired small pistol (Raven, Jennings, etc all use the same basic mechanics). The safety on these guns only lock the trigger not the sear.

I still don't believe this story the way it was written appears to intentionally state certain things and not address others. The kid was 3 foot tall, how could a modern day weapon hit 3 or 4 kids droping from 1 ft, it's bull.

It must'a been a Hi-Point.... what else could it have been?