3" 38/357 Realistic as a Starter?

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pearsonm

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I'm arming up for a required transfer to St Louis. I've been burning up the books (mostly Ayoob) and the internet (here and YouTube) trying to get up to speed. My wife and I are taking our CCW courses Saturday.

We're renting .22's to get thru the course and will be renting 9mm's and .38's afterwards to narrow down our choices. Right now my brain says plastic 9mm semi but my heart says stainless 38/357.

Watching hickok45 run a 3" 686 thru it's paces has me thinking about the 3", fixed-sight, 38/357 platform, however realistically I'll never be as proficient as that guy. Is a 3", fixed-sight 38/357 significantly more difficult to shoot well than a 4" with adjustable sights? I want the .357 in order to have access to Magnum loads but I anticipate a majority of my shooting to be in .38 Special and +P.

Thanks for listening. -Mark
 
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What do you plan to do with the gun? At what distance? If you want a target/plinking gun that can double for a home defense gun I don't see an advantage to a 3" over a 4" unless you plan to carry.

I have 3 and 4 inch guns and I can shoot both really well in single action at a known distance, let's say 27 feet. Now in double action I shoot the 4" with the adjustable sights much better at longer distances. At inside the house distances I'd pick either and no room in my house is longer than 20 feet.

Shoot safe
 
Get the revolver. Practice shooting it. Clean it. Get to know it well. Appreciate its simple yet lethal beauty. Go to range often. Shoot it double action if its a DA type. Learn the trigger.

Note how most people are shooting autos at the range. Talk to them. Ask how many started with revolvers. Buy an auto next. Shoot both until you are proficient.

Welcome to the gun collectors club.
 
What do you plan to do with the gun? At what distance? If you want a target/plinking gun that can double for a home defense gun I don't see an advantage to a 3" over a 4" unless you plan to carry.
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Agreed. Same can be said for fixed sights.

That said, 3" k-frame .357s with fixed sights (e.g. models 65 & 13) is a terrific all-arounder. Unfortunately, S&W doesn't sell .357mag k frames any longer, so you'd have to find a used one.

realistically speaking I'll never be as proficient as that guy.
Click to expand...

You can be, of course. Much better, even. Don't sell yourself short. Practice often, and always execute the fundamentals well. ;)
 
If you're an Ayoob reader, then you'll likely already know his fondness for the Ruger SP101. I share the same opinion & personally believe the SP101 3 1/16" barrel (fixed sight) to the among the most effective & universally useful .357 mag revolvers. But there are plenty of Taurus & S&W fans 'round here who'll be quick to correct my foolish opinion.
 
I will go on record as saying that the very last gun of mine to go should I, through some weird twist of fate, be required to sell all but one would be my 3" fixed sight S&W model 65. I am not the first THR'er to make that exact comment, about that exact gun, nor will I be the last.

So far as difficulty of use, the inherent mechanical accuracy between 3 and 4 inches is the same; the individual gun (and load) makes more difference. Some people say that the 4 is easier to shoot because of the slightly greater sight radius, some say that the 3 is easier to shoot because of balance. I personally find the 4 slightly more accurate at longer distances, and the 3 faster to acquire at closer ranges, but will gladly take either at the range; both are, as another forum poster once said "welded to your eyeballs". I do find that the 3 carries a little easier, but not by much.

You can do a whole lot worse than a quality medium frame .357 with a 3" tube.

Aside from that, get what you want.
;)
 
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If you can't find a good used K frame .38/357 look for a GP-100 3 inch .357 magnum.

My 'Canadian' (ex Canadian police) GP-100 is excellent.

Of course with .38s it's a easy shooting gun and it's tough enough for any and all .357 magnums.

Deaf
 
We currently have access to a shop who rents the more popular models and calibers. I believe they have a 3" SP101, either a 4" or 6" GP100 and Springfield XD's. That will probably be our starting point. They have Glocks too but growing up around rifles and shotguns as a kid I'm not sold on the Safe Action Pistol propaganda/Kool-Aid.

I fully intend to become proficient in whatever I choose, thus the decision to go with either .38 or 9mm for economy (while still getting acceptable stopping power). I know the right choice will become evident once we start shooting, there are just so many choices I'm trying to narrow the field to something manageable.

Our application will be for home defense and hopefully for fun - I have no problem with this turning into a hobby we can both enjoy. I know if we enjoy it we'll practice more. Although our employer has a No Firearm policy it would be nice to conceivably carry elsewhere.

Semi's are far and away more popular in our area, but to me they seem like soulless appliances. For some reason I'm gravitating towards revolvers. I enjoy stuff like piston-powered combat aircraft and sporting v-twin motorcycles so maybe there's some sort of connection.

A lot is going to ride on what my wife feels comfortable with. Although she admitted the 6" GP100 isn't as heavy as it looks I suspect the heavier, longer trigger pull on revolvers is going to be an issue. She's also uptight about recoil but I think as long as we go no smaller than a 3" revolvers and compact semi's and start with standard pressure ammo she'll be fine.
 
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FWIW, my wife enjoys shooting .357 magnums from my 4" GP100; and she's maybe 5' 2" and ~130lbs.

In the end, I couldn't justify a .38 snub; same length and height as a Glock19/23, but substantially less power and firepower. Heavy as they are, a 6 shot .357 magnum with a 4" barrel makes a revolver something to respect. You'll probably end up with both eventually. :)
 
If you ever plan on concealed carry, the GP100 may feel like a boat anchor after a while. If you want to go Ruger, the SP101 or an old 2.75" Speed Six would be a better choice. They are both fairly heavy guns too, but all that steel is heavy.



If you really want to look for a needle in the haystack (a very nice needle) - search for a used Colt SFVI or Detective Special II with a 3" barrel. The original DS is a nice gun too, but not stainless.
ColtSF-VI.jpg


You might also want to look at a 3" model 60 S&W (sorry, I don't have a picture of mine, but I have the 60-10 with full underlug and adjustable sites).


I have a 3" Model 65 and I don't think I would trae it for anything.
SW65withBootGrips001.jpg


A nice 4" S&W 681 makes a great home defense gun:
SW681Left.jpg

The 3" 686 is nice too, if a little heavy. This is the CS-1 varient:
SW686SP-1Left.jpg
 
I think a 3" barrel on a revolver offers a wide variety of benefits. It is easier to conceal than a 4" or 6" barrel, it is definitely more accurate than a snub nose such as 642 or 442.
As a matter of fact I have been thinking of buying the 686 plus in 3" as an alternative ccw. Right now I carry a 1911 full length or commanders.
 
Yep!

I've gone through a lot of handguns including 1911's, SIG's, Glocks, Rugers, a couple M&P's, and several S&W revolvers.
In my travels, I've found the handgunt that I positively wouldn't want to live without would be a 3" .357 magnum SP-101. To me, it's the best balance of versatility, size, power, and shootability. They're more packable than a 4" gun but have enough ejector rod to get the empties the whole way out with a solid push. And I've found the SP-101 to shoot a wide variety of loads - both .38 and .357 - to pretty close points of impact. Scientifically it probably shouldn't but that's what I've seen from them. The .38 special is a very good round for practice with cheap LRN ammo or wadcutter reloads but can pack a nasty punch with better defensive ammo and you can step up gradually until you can handle the hottest .357 rounds through your revolver. And frankly, it's not that hard to handle them in an SP-101.
Best anecdotal evidence I can give you is this past summer after a week or so of DA practice every day (40 to 50 rounds) I managed a 3" 25 yard group firing DA. A good shooter could beat that and the guns are definitely inherently capable of it.
I would call a well fitting 3" .357 an excellent choice.
 
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Also FWIW, of all the various handguns I have, my wife overwhelmingly prefers my k frame revolvers-of which there are several, the only serious redundancies in my collection. They go with my v-twin...

I'm not trying to beat the revolver drum to the exclusion of a good semi auto, mind, I just want to make sure that you feel *very* encouraged to go with your gut, if your gut ultimately says 38/357 revolver. There is no real downside to any of the wheelies mentioned, but it is in the shooting/trying that things will out.
 
I appreciate all the help! I’m going nuts waiting for Saturday to get here so we can then start renting stuff. I especially appreciate the used, 3-4” pictorial. Gun shows are big here so that will give me something to look for. Also, S&W’s model# system makes my head hurt.

One other thing I didn’t mention, I guess because it’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but in the back of my mind firepower is a consideration. At this point I’m taking the approach that 5-7 shots from a weapon that I’m proficient with because I enjoy so much will be more effective than 15-17 from something that's a joyless chore. If I busted drug deals for a living I'm sure I'd feel different, but this is just for stopping the bad guys long enough for the cavalry to arrive.
 
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. I can tell from your postings that you're actually looking forward to the sport side or "new toy" side of gun owning. But really if it comes down to an actual incident it really won't matter what you've got.

Since you seem to be looking forward to taking the courses and doing the practice shooting I'd suggest that you and maybe your wife as well may want to look at the idea of getting some of your practice in some regular IDPA matches. Check out You Tube for "idpa" to get a variety of clips to watch and see if it's something you'd like. It's far from perfect practice for an actual encounter but it'll teach you to reload fast and to shoot then move or to duck for cover and shoot from there. While it's not the real thing it's far better than standing in one spot perforating paper at a typical range. It's also way more fun from a sporting perspective so you'll likely want to get out to the regular local matches more often than just plinking at a range. And the more you shoot the better you get. And if that practicing is done with a timer running you'll tend to become faster in all aspects of the skill and not just slow plinking for accuracy.
 
I'm a revolver freak and carry one daily. It looks like you would prefer a 3" S&W K frame or a Ruger Six-Series revolver. Both are great revolvers IMO. I'm not a fan of the Sp101 because the trigger is strange. I can't explain it but sometimes the trigger won't reset when fired quickly.
 
I will echo the sentiments of the others in endorsing a 3" K-frame as an all-around handgun. My 3" Model 65 certainly makes the short list of the "one handgun I would keep if I could only keep one."

Ultimately, the gun you enjoy shooting, will practice using, and have confidence in, is worth more than anyone else's idea of a "perfect" gun that sits in the closet.


.
 
ST Louis= HI cap

I love the 3in barrel guns. Great for CCW and accurate enough for range use. My prefered carry revolver is a mod 60 357 J-frame with the 3 inch barrel such a sweet gun but only 5 shot. In St Louis though I'd be packing a 16 or 17 shot semi auto 9 mm. All depends on where you are and what your doing.
 
There are enough used, ex-LEO, 3" 65s out there at the moment- -get one ! You can always unload it later. The Rugers especially the older 2.75" are okay.

You will never regret a 3" K-frame.
 
I wholeheartedly suggest that you go with the one you 'like' better after shooting a bunch of them. That's what I did. I shot a bunch of semis, and a bunch of revolvers from j frame airweights to gp100s. I didn't find a semi that I fell in love with and felt I would carry safely (I love 1911s, but I can't bring myself to carry cocked and locked, sorry).

I fell in love with the sp101 the second I pulled the trigger on the one I rented. I have a 2inch version because I thought it would be that much easier to conceal, but I may end up with the 3 inch version as well. :)

For me, I couldn't carry a 686 or gp100 sized revolvers - too big. The sp101 is about as big and heavy as I wanted to go. I decided I wouldn't buy another gun for 6 months so I can take this one to the range and really learn it. So, with that in mind, I picked the gun I loved and not the uber-fantastic plastic that made the most sense but I just didn't really click with. What can I say?

I lived in st louis for a while. I would think as long as you don't go to unsafe parts of town, a 5 shot revolver is plenty to get you out of a sticky mess, but that's for you to rationalize.
 
I love my S&W mod 13-3. It's a blued .357 K frame. The 65 is the stainless version, the 64 is basically the same gun in .38 Special and should cost a bit less.

The trigger is fantastic, the balance is perfect. It is about the same size as my CZ75, though. They serve different jobs: one is for going to the big city, the other is for carrying in the mountains when I might need a .357 for getting a bear or lion off me or my dog.

I really like both of them, though, and I have carried both in the mountains, and both in the city. Usually, I *feel* like carrying the .357, between those two.

What I carry most is a 5 shot snub in my pocket, though. I can go anywhere with it.
 
Is a 3", fixed-sight 38/357 significantly more difficult to shoot well than a 4" with adjustable sights?
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No, in a word. The sight plane for ME is enough. I shoot snubbies pretty well, too, though.

I get 3" groups with a 2" snub 38 at 25 yards from a rest. I'm convinced the gun could do better if I could. I get 2" groups with a 2.3" SP101 (slightly longer sight plane), 1.5" with my Taurus 3" M66, and 1" with my Taurus 4" 66 and Ruger 6.5" blackhawk.

All these guns are accurate, so I think the difference in group size (from a bench rest) reflects my ability to shoot them, align the sights. I don't have a machine rest to test this theory, but I've shot a lot of 2 and 3 and 4" guns. For self defense, though, a 3" group from the snubby is overkill for accuracy. Hell, most experts say anything that'll group 4" at 25 yards is accurate enough for a duty weapon. A concealed gun is not going to be used at extended ranges, but I'd rather have too much accuracy than not enough. :D

If shooting 38s is to be done to POA, you might wanna reconsider the fixed sights. My SP101, though, shot .38 and .357 to same POA and my 3" 66 shoots 'em pretty close, but that's the exception. But, in a purely defense gun, I'd go with the fixed, though I do carry my 3" 66 some and have no problem with its adjustables. They don't get in the way or catch on stuff or anything. I carry either IWB, OWB, or fanny pack with it.

20k2b0z.jpg
 
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I should add, that I own both a 4" blued GP100 and a Glock 23, and it is a tough decision on which to carry. The decreased weight and bulk of the Glock is nice, but I also really appreciate the power and safety of the revolver. Also, I'm not going to lie, I have a sentimental fondness of blued 6 shooters.:)

Some daily minutiae about both:
Revolver is a much quieter to make ready or make safe.
Revolver does not tear up ammo making ready/making safe.
Revolver cylinder bulges more than Glock.
Revolver shape, in general, seems to blend into my body better.
I feel better about the .357 cartridge; but...
I feel better about having 12+1 in the gun. (Mags are downloaded by one round)

It's not an easy decision to make, and I don't make the same decision daily. (I dont fret over it either, I pick quickly based on my circumstance.) That's what I meant above about eventually having both. :)
 
Yes. A 3" .38/.357 is realistic as a starter. But so is a compact 9mm (Springfield XD sub-compact, XDm 3.8, Smith and Wesson M&P compact, Ruger SR9 Compact, Glock 19 or 26). I wouldn't chose one of the really tiny 9mm's as a first pistol though (LC9, P9, PM9, etc.), they are harder to learn on and harder to shoot well.

I would chose the 9mm auto over a revolver for the reasons Waywatcher just listed, but I also have a Ruger SP101, and I cannot think of a 3" revolver I would rather have... maybe a Ruger Speed Six?

If you choose a revolver, learn how to load (and reload) and unload correctly, and practice until you're this good...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXUwI_d8JlA

That's a lot of practice by the way. I've got the mechanics, but I don't have anywhere near his speed.

Whatever you choose, I recommend dry firing at least as much as live fire, and ideally a whole lot more, especially with a short barrel double action revolver.
 
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