3" 38/357 Realistic as a Starter?

[charlieb8]

I have a 686 + 3 inch barrel. I sent it away and had it Magna ported and also had them do an action job. Now it has a very sweet double action and a great single action. I put a set of Pachmayer grips on it. Carry it often in Alaska.

My other revolver is a model 640. I use 158 grain swchp +P loads in it. (The FBI load)
I tried the Speer short barrel load in it, but it shoots way off point of aim with that load.

I have a Glock 21 short frame with a light for the house gun. My significant other loves that one.

But I always like the quote from Bill Jordan. "What are you going to do with another six rounds if you could not get the job done with the first six?"

I saw a video a few years ago that showed a drug dealer fleeing arrest in a van. There were officers on both sides of the street firing at him! (a miracle that they did not shoot one another). Forty rounds were fired, the miscreant was shot....in the ankle!

 

[EVIL]

Let me make sure I have this correct. I'm getting professional training and doing due diligence before I buy the first piece of equipment, but since I’m not sold on Glock’s that makes me an anti-gunner? How did my thread wind up on Glock Talk?

I'm kidding. I'll talk Glock’s with anyone who doesn't have a glassy-eyed, Kool-Aid gaze. I appreciate the brilliance of the Glock platform and would probably own a G19 right now if it wasn’t for the SAP thing.

No flame intended (pretty sure you wouldn't be here if an anti-gunner...lol ) - I actually think you are going about this purchase the right way - trying many systems before you buy. I just didn't want you to rule it out because of all the GLOCK safe action/hi-capacity mag haters on the internet gun forums. Get some info - and make an informed decision is all any of us can do. If you choose a revolver you will be better armed than 99% of the sheeple.

To me the logic of carrying more rounds in a magazine (or a spare) is the same logic as carrying a gun in the first place "Be prepared." ...and "better to have and not need than need and not have..." Of course there is a practicality side to how long your magazine can be and still be concealed comfortably.

Do I ever think I will ever need to use my CC weapon, in my life?...probably not - the US is one of the most law-abiding places in the world - despite what the media trys to sell papers with - and I have seen some real hell-holes overseas. I can only think of one time (outside of military service) that my life might have been endangered by the malicious intent of another (ruling out accidents here.) And I solved the situation with clear thinking and being in good physical shape (i.e. running away.) Now, I have young children to protect and need a means to defend them if I am cornered (with the limited mobility of very small children) - so a firearm is more imperative in my personal security strategy day-to-day. Practice good Operational risk management about where you are going, etc - is the key. But when you need a gun or an extra round in the highly unlikely situation that you do in the first place - I don't want to have a loved one perish for lack of ammo (or a slow reload) - as I have the responsibility to defend my family.

Good luck at the range!

 

[788Ham]

I'll also give my opinion on the SP 101 3", great revolver. I got mine about 3 month ago, CCW, with a good pancake holster, you'll never know its there. It handles 38 + P's without any problems, the 357's aren't any harder to handle, just need more practice time. I'm not flaming any other make of revolver, I've owned, or do own the S&W's and Colts, but for me and CCW, this little 101 does the trick! Good luck!

 

[niner4tango]

Pearsonm, I think you are absolutely on the right track with a 3" .357. Especially in a K frame you have the best combination of firepower, capacity, controlability and concelability. You have a good list in your post #31.

I do consider the K frame to be an OWB carry weapon, but is it so slim it is easy to conceal. Some do carry IWB with these, though. Eventually, you may want something even smaller for EDC, and the J frame is an excellent choice. Then both you and your wife have a defensive handgun on hand, even when you are not together.

This 13-3 would be the last revolver I would part with.


Hickok45 is inspiring, I could only wish to be as good. Have you seen him ring the gong with his Bushmaster...offhand? Incredible.

 

[pearsonm]

A couple posts mention stats, weapon-mounted lights and IWB vs OWB holsters.

I ran across a series of videos titled America's Ultimate Warrior Handgun Basics on YouTube which had some good info including the following stats:

80% of all civilian gunfights are in the home.
70% occur in the dark.
85% of the time only one shot is fired and the bad guy leaves.
45% one shot hit’s the intruder.
15% of these shootings result in death.

The videos are about 20 years old (judging from the bomber mullet jobs) and I have nothing to verify the stats but I find them interesting none the less.

Besides weight, trigger action and firepower another factor in my revolver vs. semi-auto decision is a light rail. On one hand there are people who say that a gun-mounted light is all you need while others say you search with a flashlight and identify and fire with a gun-mounted light.

My goal is to get a OWB rig to work. I get the benefits of IWB but I'm not yet ready to commit to an entirely new wardrobe. Just having to wear a belt's going to put a serious crimp in my Dude lifestyle.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

my first conceal carry gun when I ironically enough was living in st. louis was a 3" 357 magnum. It was a very good firearmy to learn on (atleast for me). naturally depending on what you are looking at, alot of the compact 9mms will be easier to conceal however.

 

[NG VI]

I had a 4" 686, it had the best double-action trigger I've ever felt, by far. It would be a superb, and good-looking first gun for anyone. It's heavy enough that the lower-powered loads won't be offensive to anyone and the higher-powered loads will range from tame to easily manageable, they're strong and durable enough to outlast you and your children too, they're mechanically accurate enough to reward you for using it right, and they're really good-looking.

I shot it better in DA than SA, I think the beautiful trigger allowed me to fully focus on keeping the sights correctly aligned. Shooting a 686 in double action well is not difficult, and learning to properly shoot double-action on any gun will make you a much better shooter in short order. You have to pay attention to the fundamentals, and if you do, you will shoot some really good-looking groups.

to me they seem like soulless appliances.

Yeah that's Glocks alright, soulless appliances to the core but you have to respect them for what they are. They are extremely resistant to corrosion, they have (to me) a very good combat/practical type of trigger, like any other modern pistol they are absolutely drop-safe if you don't try to catch it, and they demonstrate good accuracy for a lightweight, non-target bred weapon. Also, they tend to shoot well for just about anyone who focuses on the fundamentals with them, even people who don't neccessarily like the way they feel.

Also, they fully strip easier than any other gun I've handled, and that's huge if you like being able to fully service your own firearm with ease. They may be soulless, but do yourself a favor and give a 26 with no extensions a fair shot with a couple of boxes of ammunition. It's a superb carry gun and extremely accurate as well.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

+1 on the 3" revolver.

I recently shot a 3" S&W M60 (J-frame), and it was just as accurate and pleasant to shoot as my 4" K-frame. It's considerably more compact than the K-frame, and the 3" M60 weighs a couple ounces less than the 3" Ruger SP-101.

I think .38 Special is the ideal round for a small to medium revolver. It is accurate, controllable, and will not blind or deafen the shooter.

 

[NG VI]

I didn't read the second page, what exactly is wrong with a safe action (pre-cocked striker fired) pistol design? If it's the lack of a separate manual on/off safety switch, that's hardly specific to Glocks, and even if it were, safeties can be unintentionally deactivated in a variety of ways, from simple parts wear or breakage to a rushed and sloppy draw to a poorly fitted holster.

Any modern firearm in a half-decent holster will be perfectly safe as long as you treat it like it's a loaded, lethal weapon that deserves your respect.

 

[AEA]

My 3" SP101 with Gemini Customs Package.

 

[JFrame]

My 3-inchers -- S&W 65 and S&W Pro-60 (some inner-tube wrapped around the 60 grip for a little additional "stickiness"...):




.

 

[goon]

AEA - that's a sweet SP-101!
I'd keep the hammer personally, but I like the slab-sided profile.

 

[outdoorsguy29]

3in. .357/.38

If going undercover I would go for a Taurus 617. It's a 7-shot .357/.38. plus they come ultra lite and stainless. If not and worried what to use at home go 4in.

 

[pearsonm]

Well, just got back from CCW training. I had a blast and thankfully my wife says she had fun. I was getting worried because she was stressing the ‘test’ portion. She also doesn’t like Capt. Doomsday types but fortunately our instructor was a normal, down-to-earth guy.

Actually I have to say she was a real trooper because our rental .22’s (a S&W (I think) revolver and Ruger Mark semi-auto) were filthy, beat up POS’s. The semi jammed several times and the trigger and hammer on the revolver were unbearably heavy. She fired D/A once then blistered her thumb manually cocking it. I fired D/A and my trigger finger's sore.

I’d blame the gun but the couple next to us owned a S&W Bodyguard and she had to bandage her hand to get through the required 70 rounds. Fortunately my wife’s still open to renting .38’s but after today’s experience she much preferred the semi-auto. I have to say at this point so did I.

By the way, our class was held at a gun shop. I looked at a blue 3" S&W .44. I don't know what model it was but man it was gorgeous.

 

[sixgunner455]

Rental .22 is gonna be filthy. Even if it gets cleaned once a week or so, if it's a busy shop and range, that gun is gonna get some gunk on it.

Monday, I took 5 kids, 2 bricks of .22, and a bunch of pistols and rifles to the range.

We didn't take any ammo home. I bet those kids could have put all those rounds through one or two guns just as easily as they did the 3 rifles and 3 pistols we took, and those would have been some filthy, filthy guns.

Just resolve to keep yours a bit cleaner than that, and I'm sure they will work better. I have a Ruger semiauto .22 pistol, and it doesn't really mind getting dirty, but it wants more lube the dirtier it gets.

 

[Jeb21]

A k frame 3" 38 or 38/357 would be an excellent choice for ccw.

 

[pearsonm]

^ Yea, there's no way I'd let my own equipment get that far out of shape and I know trigger jobs are no big deal. At the same time, after just today I can relate to the points and counterpoints of each warring tribe in the eternal Revolver vs. Semi-Auto wars. Shooting full loads with hopefully cleaner equipment should make for a clearer picture.

I'm trying not to get my heart set on launching some legendary .357 Magnum rounds downrange.

 

[MCgunner]

We have to use duty calibers for qualifying, .380 and up for autos, .38 special and up for revolvers. I don't THINK they've allowed .32s, yet, but I KNOW we can't use .22s. The good news is, Stevie Wonder could qualify. The course of fire is a bit of a joke. But, I don't mind that. Don't wanna make it too hard or we won't get people in there to try, right? More CCWs out there, better things are IMHO. There doesn't seem to be any record of ADs/NDs from the CCW world. Most people seem to take it seriously before they decide to get a permit.

As to the gun, 3" barrels offer about as easy sight alignment as do 4" guns. I'd get the 3" FIRST if carry is a concern as there's really few negatives to losing an inch, especially if you're going to use .38s in the gun for carry. 3" is where the .357 tends to wake up, though. Longer the better for ballistics, but I don't think 3" is much of a compromise over 4" guns considering the advantage in concealment.

All JMHO, though. Worth what you paid for it.

 

[goon]

FWIW, a used Ruger MKII, MKIII, or 22/45 or a Browning Buckmark is a good investment that can be had for under $200 if you look around a little and have just a bit of luck. I've seen them in stores in the $189-$219 range and even missed one privately for $150 last week. A .22 handgun is a great investment.

 

[niner4tango]

Pearsonm, good range report. You are taking off on a long enjoyable journey. There is no question that a semi-auto is an ergonomically easier weapon. It could be the right choice as your first handgun for the family. The main considerations are that your wife can learn to work the slide, you pick a reliable weapon and the "manual of arms" are straight forward for defense purposes (safeties, DA/SA can be "expert's" weapons).

I love revolvers, and they dominate my accumulation of handguns. But, my first choice in a tight situation would be a Springfield XD. Ergonomically, they are hard to beat. I have several of them, and one of the best I have had is the sub-compact. "Happily", I no longer have this one. Happy, because, I offered my daughter her choice of any of my handguns and she chose this one. Now it protects her.

Photo, along side a Taurus 650 (same as a J frame)


Try one of these at the range. Get your lady setup. Then get your own pride and joy, a blued S&W

 

[pearsonm]

^ Excellent timing, niner4tango. I can't get to sleep due to today's info overload. Your post may be some sort of sign because it hits on several points.

Thru my 9mm research I identified the XD, M&P and FNP as rental candidates. Besides our issue with Glock’s SAP design neither of us particularly care for the grip. We both agree that the XD just feels right. Plus, I’d like to think that with the grip safety I can place my thumb on the back of the slide while holstering to engage the safety and gain a little extra peace of mind.

The M&P is available with a frame-mounted safety to accommodate my circus-freak thumbs. The FNP has a hammer I could place my thumb on while holstering and get a warning if an unforeseen obstruction was about to aerate my foot.

But here’s what’s really eating me - I learned today while firing right handed that I’m left-eye dominate. Also, during the one-handed drills I shot better with my left. My mom told me a few years ago that they had to make a hard decision when I was a kid and they chose to break me of my left-handed tendencies. I guess I shouldn’t be too surprised - I‘ve always shot long guns left handed.

It sounds like changing hands is easier than changing dominant eyes, however I know it’s a right-handed world out there. The smart money might be to start with a utilitarian, ambidextrous 9mm so I can experiment and sort things out.

Man, I’ve got to get to bed.

 

[sixgunner455]

Cross-dominance: Shoot with your dominant hand. If you shoot better with your left, then let it be your dominant hand for shooting. If that means that you have to cant the pistol a bit toward your dominant eye, and cant your head a bit toward your sights, so be it. Whichever, do most of your shooting with your dominant hand.

Fit: buy the gun that fits you the best, esthetically, emotionally, and in your hand. Buy your wife the gun that fits her the best, in all the same ways, for her.

Legendary .357 Magnum rounds: Go ahead and shoot some! You might like it! If you ever come out to AZ, you can shoot some through mine.

 

[John Ross]

Pearson, I'll weigh in here. I live in St. Louis, have taught more CCW candidates in this state than any other instructor, and some people on this board know me.

Don't buy anything just yet. You can come to one of my range sessions for free and I'll let you shoot some different stuff that's in excellent shape, not fouled to hell, and will give you a better idea of what's available that you might want to eventually buy.

Based on my rather extensive experience with women, and with couples that are new to handguns (and CCW), I have a few observations:

Your wife has likely already formed emotional reactions to what she likes and doesn't like in the way of guns that may not jibe with your own eventual preferences. Rather than try to pour water uphill, get used to the idea of her having her own gun and you having a different one of your own. Plan for it. Plan on taking care of her gun needs first. Early experiences with guns can make or break a new shooter, and this holds double for shooters with two X chromosomes.

Cross dominance is not too big a deal with handguns, but a real problem with long guns. Shooting most handguns left-handed raises some other issues. We'll talk about that.

My personal preferences strongly favor revolvers but I don't let that poison my instructing. However, I do focus on real-life scenarios under stress. More than one student has had his eyes opened by my demonstrating that HIS semi with factory ammo jammed regularly if I used the wrong grip, then asked "Are you absolutely sure that when faced with a life-threatening situation, you won't do what I just did?"

I can also point you in the right direction about where to find good prices on guns and as importantly, practice ammo. Phone number is on my website.

Welcome to St. Louis!

 

[RX-178]

Realistic? Hells yes.

Whenever someone asks me what I recommend for them as a first gun, when they're looking for a CCW (and more and more people are asking me these things nowadays), I almost always recommend a revolver similar to what the OP described.

Assuming that the person isn't already a gun person, they probably won't enjoy gun cleaning nearly as much as I do. For the most part, revolvers can be cleaned without disassembly. The .357 revolvers can fire light .38 specials to get used to shooting, and go all the way up through hard-hitting .357 magnum rounds for defense. Concealable, accurate, powerful, and simple.

Perfect for a beginner in my opinion.

 

[AEA]

AEA - that's a sweet SP-101!
I'd keep the hammer personally, but I like the slab-sided profile.

Thanks for the compliment. I stumbled onto this slightly used at a price that was actually less than what the factory stock gun cost new! Hard to believe and I couldn't pass it up.