Are Revolvers inferior to a Glock?

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jad, so you base all of your auto experienced off of a taurus?

Of course not, but it does figure in, being it was the most serious gun failure I've experienced.

As for how long a revolver will last before needing attention, as other said, it is very tough to say. Depends on the brand, the assembly quality, the caliber, the loads fired (bullet material, pressure, etc) ... the list goes on. Though one of our very own THR members, Confederate, has posted about Ruger Sixes going tens of thousands of rounds (30,000 IIRC) with max pressure .357 Magnum loads with very little, if any ill effects.

A range down the road from me that has been open for 25 years has a number of rental revolvers (all .357s save for a lone .38, IIRC) dating to when the place opened. Last time I spoke to the owner, he estimated that those revolvers (a mix of S&Ws and Rugers and a lone Taurus) had an absolute minimum of 25,000 rounds through each of them, perhaps as high as 50,000+ (they do some business in that place), with no problems, save for one: a blown forcing cone on the mythically tough Ruger GP100. I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

I'll tell you what, I would love to have the resources (time, money and a patient spouse) to shoot 25,000 rounds a year and wear a gun out in just a few short years. Must be nice!
 
I just don't see wearing out a gun to be an issue to anyone short of a very serious competitive shooter or someone from the year 2148 who stumbles across a mountain of our old and forgotten shooters whilst running from the Slug Beast Overlords:neener:

Like many gun folks, I look at myself as curator/caretaker of my firearms. Not necessarily because I think I'm preserving our history (even though, in many ways we are), but simply because heavy fairly simple machines built out of quality materials that do not get used and abused everyday will simply outlast our frail human life spans.

Almost all of my guns are second hand. Either passed down from friends and family members, bought at a good price at the gun shop, or are police trade ins/milsurp. I don't think a single one of them has any less than 50 more years of reliable shooting left to it at the current rate of weekly/monthly range trips and the rotation of which get taken out of the safe.
 
fatcat4620....
Go to France. Previously manufactured by Manurhin Equipment 1972-1998, located in Mulhouse, France; they are not currently imported. During 1998, Chapuis Armes purchased Manurhin, and new revolvers are currently being manufactured in the new Manufacture d. Armes de tir Chapuis facility located in Saint Bonnet Le Chateau, France, utilizing the original production machinery. Models are available only by contacting the factory directly. Good luck.
 
Fatcat4620,

Well the Manurhin might be pretty tough to acquire, but you can get a Freedom Arms for comparative testing. Just buy a Model 83 in .357 Magnum, if you talk to them they might even make you another cylinder for it in 9mm for head to head comparison with your Glock. Either way feed both of them a steady diet of hand loads assembled to 55,000-60,000psi operating pressure and see which firearm lasts longer. Please wear hearing and eye protection when you do this. Also I would advise having a good first aid kit, and a paramedic handy.

Show me any auto pistol that will fit in a normal holster that doesn't weigh as much as an M1 carbine that can safely digest ammo that operates at over 50,000psi. There are plenty of revolvers that can accomplish this.
 
Will a Revolver last as long as a Glock?
The reason i ask is as far as round count will it last? you hear about forcing cones cracking, transfer bars and getting out of time, will it last as say as a Glock in 9mm, 17,19 and such? which would you want if they quit making sidearms tomorrow?

Cool, an "oil" thread. Entertainment value. I want to play, too.

On first part (which lasts longer) --- need more information. What constraints/conditions? Which revolver? What ammo? Does this include magazines? Unlimited funds?

On the second part (which one if they stop making sidearms) _and_ I could possess only one --- revolver.

I can dance and tell you all the reasons why, but the reality is ---
"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal" - R. Heinlein

I just trust 'em 'cause I grew up with them.
 
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TY for the update, Sam Cade. I've been trying to keep tabs on these in case I ever win the lottery.
 
Cool, an "oil" thread. Entertainment value. I want to play, too.

On first part (which lasts longer) --- need more information. What constraints/conditions? Which revolver? What ammo? Does this include magazines? Unlimited funds?

On the second part (which one if they stop making sidearms) _and_ I could possess only one --- revolver.

I can dance and tell you all the reasons why, but the reality is ---
"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal" - R. Heinlein

I just trust 'em 'cause I grew up with them.

What oil do you use in yor revolver?

:D
 
"Uh...YEAH. I'd say that's "proven." "

But only for three decades so far. We don't know if the polymer in a Glock will hold up for a century or more.

I thought the discussion was about long-term proof, not short-term. And 30 years isn't very long when it comes to firearms designs.

Sure, the chemists and engineers will predict that a certain formulation will last X number of years under XYZ circumstances, but the real world has a way of proving them wrong from time to time.
 
"Uh...YEAH. I'd say that's "proven." "

But only for three decades so far. We don't know if the polymer in a Glock will hold up for a century or more.

I thought the discussion was about long-term proof, not short-term. And 30 years isn't very long when it comes to firearms designs.

Sure, the chemists and engineers will predict that a certain formulation will last X number of years under XYZ circumstances, but the real world has a way of proving them wrong from time to time.
This is kind of like arguing what will last longer, a book or disk. None of us will live long enough to see the difference but we can make an educated guess.
If you take a blue steel revolver and put it out on your deck in the elements along side of a Glock which one will fail first?
How about a sandy environment where all you can do to clean it is rinse in dirty water.
The criteria is not established for the test but both types can be made to fail.
What happens if a blue steel revolver and glock are exposed to enough heat to discharge a round in the chamber? I'm sure the revolver might loose its grips but beyond that would probably still be serviceable, the Glock would probably have melted down.
 
All mechanical contraptions will wear with time. Is your first car still running? Would you expect the original manufacturer to warranty it for life?
That being said I have put more than 10,000 rounds of light 38 Special loads through my S&W627PC and several 1911's and more than 20,000 through several 22's. I do not expect them to last forever but they have served me well to date.
 
For a service weapon, I can only really see two advantages a revolver has over an automatic. Reliability (despite how reliable a Glock is, it's kinda obvious) and the ability to fire it while being pushed against something. Other than that, the Glock is easier to reload (for those that are unskilled), holds more rounds, easier to service and I'll say it, more durable. After all, would you just a Glock thrown off of a building? What about a revolver? For an actual duty weapon, the Glock is a better choice for the mass but the revolver isn't outdated yet.
 
Coaldragger I could chamber a tt-33 in 9x23 winchester and it would shoot 50,000 psi ammo all day. It would also weigh less than your revolver and do it in a smaller package. All in a 70 year old auto.
 
Taken from gloc faq.com
" UV exposure results in degradation over an extended period of time. 2-3% carbon black virtually eliminates UV degradation and Carbon-Black does not become readily absorbed in Nylons offering higly increased useful life spans. Loss of mechanical properties with 2% Carbon-Black is less than 0.05% on an elevated UV exposure test equivalent to approximately 100 years."
http://www.glockfaq.com/content.aspx?ckey=Glock_FAQ_General_Glock_Info#polymer
 
The way I see it is this:

Yes, the Glock is a very reliable firearm. However, I think it's gotten too much credit over the years, probably due to the fact that it was one of the first autos on the market besides well made 1911's and BHP's that were reliable enough to stake one's life on. (Unless you count the BDA, but that didn't catch on till a bit later) However, it is not this unstoppable force that can never jam. I've seen more Glock malfunctions than revolvers, and 1911's for that matter. Specifically with limp-wristing. Does that mean it's unreliable? No. I own two Glocks which are very reliable, but it's still just a machine. It can jam. I've seen that G21 test where the guy threw it out of an airplane and all that assorted lunacy, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts a Ruger GP100 could give it a run for it's money. Not only that, but you must remember the old adage "things are not always as they seem". I'm not saying the test was bogus, but there are other factors that could've come into play, and it's not always the best idea to take an article on the internet as absolute truth. Let's do that test with 100 Glocks, monitered and controlled by a large group. That might give more of a statistical answer. And besides that, just when the hell are our pistols going to be thrown out of airplanes, stomped in mud, sit overnight in baby powder and grit, such things like that?

Bottom line on that, Glocks are certainly reliable, but I don't think they're "above and beyond" the reliability of other handguns.

And revolvers? I prefer them for a few reasons. First, if I ever have to use a handgun for self defense, there's a good chance I might be injured, on the ground, in a tight spot, etc... If I don't hold my lightweight Glock 19 with a proper grip, there's a good chance it will jam. If I'm not holding my revolvers with a proper grip, it will fire just fine. I'm also not a fan of Glock's "safe action", a relatively short trigger pull with no safety. But that's personal preference.

It's hard to beat a revolver in terms of reliability, simplicity, multiple calibers in one, and powerful cartridges (how many autos do you see chambered for .454 Casull?). Many will point out the "complex" internals of a revolver, saying it's not simple. That depends on the revolver. A GP100 is incredibly simple. A S&W is more complicated, but still easy to understand and not much can go wrong on a shot to shot basis. Is it as simple as the tupperware wonder? No. But it's not significantly more complicated than, say, a CZ75b, which is considered to be a simple design.

Some will point out that a revolver can go "out of time", bent ejectors, etc, and autos don't have these problems. This is the argument of "when a revolver malfunctions, it's out of the fight for good. When an auto does, a "tap, rack, bang" and you're back in the fight". While this is true, it's ignoring the more binding failures that autos can experience at ABOUT the same frequency as revolvers: worn out springs, extractors, slide stops, magazines, etc. Both revolvers and autos are susceptible to fight-stopping malfunctions if not cared for properly.

Anyway, now I'm just rambling, and am probably going to ruffle feathers with what I've said already. So I'll shut up now :D
 
Driftwood - the front sight on my 1930 M&P looks just like the one on your 1932 K22:
K2202.jpg

I'd post a picture of mine, but they're all on my other computer. Maybe I'll remember to when I get home tonight.

I've never seen another one like it before.

Just thought that was interesting.
 
Fatcat4620,

The highest pressure I could find listed for 9X23 Winchester was 46,300psi at max from Hodgdon, and Wiki has an article listing the highest pressure as 40,000 cup. Either way I think your 50,000psi 9X23 Winchester idea may be a bit optimistic. The case would probably handle it though. Keep in mind you can push a Freedom Arms up to around 60,000psi no sweat, so there is still quite a gap in "durability" here.

The suggestion of using a Tokarev 33 is also hilarious since 7.62X25mm Tokarev pressures are all over the place with average Russian surplus being more in the 35,000psi range. I think a CZ 52 would be a better candidate for your conversion since they are much stronger, although I'm not sure why you wouldn't use a 1911 for this since 9X23 was designed for the 1911.

At any rate when you compare actual power delivered to target you'll still be way behind. As reported by John Taffin, and confirmed by silhouette shooters using the guns, the Freedom Arms M83 in .357 Magnum loaded to full capability can push a 160gr bullet out at over 1700fps. Which is about 35gr's heavier and 200-250fps faster than anything a 9X23 Winchester can do. I suppose it might be fun to see how long your conversion Tokarev would survive pushing 160gr bullets up to 1700fps, purely for curiosity. I wonder if Ransom makes inserts for a Tokarev?

Then we can talk about other larger calibers operating at high pressures offering more power, which revolvers can still do even as bore size increases. For example my FA M83 in .454 Casull offers a power level and operating pressure level that will be difficult if not impossible for a comparably sized auto loading pistol to match with current technology. Unless your durability standard is making it through one magazine before something breaks, blows up, cracks, or falls off.

What this whole argument boils down to is how one defines durability, and each design has strengths compared to the other based on what criteria of durability you are testing or selecting for.
 
Driftwood - the front sight on my 1930 M&P looks just like the one on your 1932 K22:

sixgunner455

Here are a couple of more views of the front sight on my K22. It has a stainless steel bead insert. This was called the Call brilliant bead. They also came with a gold bead insert called the Call gold bead.

K22frontsight02.jpg

K22frontsight01.jpg
 
Buy quality, maintain after every firing session, don't abuse it; a Glock 17 and a GP-100 should both last for centuries. Why not buy both? .357 for hunting and Glock for HD.
 
A quality revolver from a reputable manufacturer should last just as long as the glock in round count. I'd put the GP-100 up against any glock you want.

That being said, I wouldn't try the same test with an old S&W or Colt unless we are talking about reduced power loads.
 
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