My Taurus 850 CIA Cylinder Fell Out on Ground

But that wont matter either...Taurus haters will always hate em....just the way it is!..........

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Yes, beware of those evil "Taurus haters"

HiVel1 said:

They all do that-right? I heard Taurus has a new deal where they give you a free shipping return label with each gun they sell. Good idea. Not that they fix them. I had one that spent enough time in the air to get enough frequent flyer miles to ship that sucker one way to Australia.. gone for good.

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"frequent flyer miles........."

Yes, beware of those evil "Taurus haters"

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Not the way I meant it, but funny nonetheless...........

It is just that the HUGE percentage of Taurus bashers, have in fact NEVER owned one and actually just jump on the band wagon.....mob rule so to speak!

Another percentage actually have owned one, and bash it due only to the fact that it is "not accurate" and in most of those cases, they would not be accurate with anything....I have been a witness/participant to this at gun range on more than one case.....

This piece of @!%* wont hit nothing.....

I pick it up and put all rounds on target in decent group.....

And then there is the percentage I say actually tells the truth from actual ownership and problems, which usually involves some degree of intelligence in mechanical devices, and give Taurus constructive criticism rather than no chance in $#!! of ever being able to make a accurate and dependable firearm.

I have a safe full of accurate dependable Taurus firearms, living with Rugers, S&W, Beretta, Springfield, and others and they are just all family.....

Not once have I opened my safe and the S&W and Rugers etc. were trying to kick them out!......

It is just that the HUGE percentage of Taurus bashers, have in fact NEVER owned one and actually just jump on the band wagon.....mob rule so to speak!

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I've not noticed this. My personal opinion on Taurus is based on having owned 7 Taurus guns, all of which were purchased new in the box, over a period of about 7yrs; and over half of which had problems that caused them to be functionally unreliable (nothing to do with accuracy problems). That said, if the above statement has any credibility at all, I'd agree that it's just silly to listen to someone's opinion on a topic, with which they have no personal experience.

Doug S said:

I've not noticed this. My personal opinion on Taurus is based on having owned 7 Taurus guns, all of which were purchased new in the box, over a period of about 7yrs; and over half of which had problems that caused them to be functionally unreliable (nothing to do with accuracy problems). That said, if the above statement has any credibility at all, I'd agree that it's just silly to listen to someone's opinion on a topic, with which they have no personal experience.

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My only question would be..."7?"
Really?..."7?"
It's not that I don't believe you.
I do.
I have no reason not to; and I've never seen you say anything else to EVER to lead me to doubt your integrity what so ever.

But what in the world kept you still buying a brand you had trouble with until it added up to 7 of them?
Wow.
Most people would have stopped after 1 or 2.
You are truly not a quitter!
I salute you Sir....

My only question would be..."7?"
Really?..."7?"
It's not that I don't believe you.
I do.
I have no reason not to; and I've never seen you say anything else to EVER to lead me to doubt your integrity what so ever.

But what in the world kept you still buying a brand you had trouble with until it added up to 7 of them?
Wow.
Most people would have stopped after 1 or 2.

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This seems to be a real sticking point for some. In fact I was accused of being dishonest by two fellows on TFL because I shared this. I think it shows that I had nothing against the brand, and kept buying into the idea put forth on so many threads like this one, that Taurus is a good brand and my examples were just flukes...but by number 7, I had slowly learned my lesson. It started out because Taurus seemed the most affordable to me at the time, and continued because I liked some of their ideas versus cost, like a 9mm snub for instance. All of that said, thanks for not being one of those who call my integrity (or intelligence) into question for sharing my experience. It seems like some Taurus owners just aren't "big minded" enough not to do so.

For the record, here is my list...

1. Taurus 94 2in snub -frequent light strikes not ammo related.
2. Taurus 605 - this was a good one
3. Taurus PT111- trigger broke with the first 65 shots of first range session
4. Taurus 85 - sporadic trigger malfunctions
5-6. Taurus 650 x 2 - one of which would start binding when it heated up because the cylinder/barrel gap was too tight. It worked fine after repairs, but Taurus sent this blued model back with rust on it. The second, stainless 650 worked fine.
7. Taurus 905 IB - would lock up for reasons I was unable to figure out, and Taurus couldn't fix.

Not that anyone would want to, but I'm sure that if one were bored enough to check the archives here and on TFL they could confirm these purchases.

Funny, a guy can't get ahead. Either they are being accused of never having owned a Taurus, or they are ridiculed for being stupid enough to buy too many of them.

I cannot really blame the Taurus guys who have older Taurus' (like me), or a couple of newer Taurus guns that worked out really well for them... for getting real upset on these threads
so much of this 'thrashing' does happen on gun boards
Anybody who owns any gun that makes them smile has plenty enough good reason to smile, and good enough reason to get mad if 'ridiculed'

But, I just cannot relate to the constant theme song replayed that it is some "Vast Internet Conspiracy", or 'noobs only' who cannot aim a gun, or "I know a guy who knows a guy" nonsense ...
especially so with a bunch of links that are really just another form of "I know (??) a guy who knows a guy" in supposed rebuttal
hey, I know (??) a LOT of cyberpersons, but I know a lot of shooters, too, 1st person relationships, face-to-face, at home, at range, username = real name
and if family, friend, or shootin' buddy pulls a NIB gun out come range day, and it falls apart, or locks up in 5 rounds fired, you are probably going to hear about it, right here
(and you just might not want to call 'em idiots and internet commandoes right to their face, because they all carry their own heat, and some of 'em have a shorter fuse than I do)

Every gun specific model topic I read here, the majority (by a large margin) are stating hands on experience, BOTH good and bad with gun X
People who take the time to post one word replies like "crap" or "POS" really ought get off their 'keyboards' and go shoot something, agreed
But pretending that long time shooters (which are a large demographic on this forum) are just here to make up pretend stories is just plain silly

There is a difference between "thrashing" and "bashing" -
I owned a Nash Rambler once upon a time, a sweet little vehicle
I also owned a lemon yellow AMC station wagon once upon a time, I won't tell you about, because they don't allow that sort of language on this forum
But I sure told everybody who would listen all about it, and never bought another AMC product; apparently some other folks didn't buy more AMC product either, for whatever their legit reasons were.
(AMC, you know, had 'the best warranty in the business'.. leastways until you needed it)

I say, when 'they' don't earn our confidence, they need to hear about it, loudly and often. Because we don't want them to go out of business. We want them to shape up and earn back our trust. Same goes for S&W, Ruger, Colt, Kimber, anybody, everybody.
yeah I like S&W revolvers, but when they can't match up the number of holes and flutes on a cylinder, they need a good cold hard slap "wake up call"
Post it on public gun forums, rattle their cage !
same goes for brand X, Y, or Z

got a good one, tell us about it
got a bad one, tell us about it
I ain't got enough years left in me to buy every one of 'em to try myself
but not so old I cannot learn from the experience of others

But keep the topic on 'the gun', and leave the "he/she touched me first !" to the kindergarten kids

PS
and do not discount those "noobs", either, we were all "noobs"
they buy a brand X gun they "can't hit with", they may likely never own another brand X
but some just might buy brand Y or brand Z, learn to hit with, and be handing out advice here and elsewhere

Why would it be the dealers responsibility?
If I go buy a new car, the dealer doesn't teach me how to drive it or avoid crashing it.

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The Taurus issue would be more like selling you a car with loose lug nuts.

Auto dealers (most, anyway) prep any vehicle for sale, be it used or brand new off the trailer from factory. Remove carpet covers and other protectant films, check tire pressure, set clock, calibrate compass, check fluids, test drive a few miles.

I'm a mechanic, I own my company. I inspect new parts for defects and verify proper function before installation/before the vehicle leaves my facility. Not my fault if the part is bad, but 1) I do own some of the responsibility if I miss an obvious flaw and 2) I'm the one who has to deal with the customer, not my parts supplier.

LGS should remove new firearm from packaging, clean it off, give it a basic inspection. Is it the dealer's fault if a new gun has a prblem? No. Are they likely to get blamed on some level and have a less-than-happy customer? Yes. Therefore, it would be prudent for them to give each new gun a once-over.

oldfool said,

But, I just cannot relate to the constant theme song replayed that it is some "Vast Internet Conspiracy", or 'noobs only' who cannot aim a gun, or "I know a guy who knows a guy" nonsense ...
especially so with a bunch of links that are really just another form of "I know (??) a guy who knows a guy" in supposed rebuttal
hey, I know (??) a LOT of cyberpersons, too, but I know a lot of shooters, too, 1st person relationships, face-to-face, at home, at range, username = real name

Every gun specific model topic I read here, the majority (by a large margin) are stating hands on experience, BOTH good and bad with gun X

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Agreed...good post all around. I appreciate the comments.

"I was accused of being dishonest by two fellows on TFL because I shared this."

If I were a betting man, I bet I could make a fair guess which two
(they make the rounds, same theme song)
but I ain't a betting man nohow
my limit is one mega-millions $1 ticket a week, enough to keep me from indulging in far more dangerous fantasies, you know

thanks for sharing your experience, here, Doug S
both the good and the bad

Another percentage actually have owned one, and bash it due only to the fact that it is "not accurate" and in most of those cases, they would not be accurate with anything....I have been a witness/participant to this at gun range on more than one case.....

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I am a Taurus basher, but I will also defend them when it comes to accuracy.
I've owned two Trackers, both went south, but my 970 was the most accurate handgun ever. Free hand a pop can at 50 yds 80% of the time, made me look like I could shoot . I'd be at the range and if anybody showed up next to me....out came the 970 (this gun covered over a multitude of sins).

My problem is mostly with QC and CS. Raise the price a little and use that money to repair the defects before they leave, and when they return. I think if you get a good one you probably have a good one that will last awhile, but as for me and my house we don't care to buck the odds.

Doug S said:

This seems to be a real sticking point for some. In fact I was accused of being dishonest by two fellows on TFL because I shared this. I think it shows that I had nothing against the brand, and kept buying into the idea put forth on so many threads like this one, that Taurus is a good brand and my examples were just flukes...but by number 7, I had slowly learned my lesson. It started out because Taurus seemed the most affordable to me at the time, and continued because I liked some of their ideas versus cost, like a 9mm snub for instance. All of that said, thanks for not being one of those who call my integrity (or intelligence) into question for sharing my experience. It seems like some Taurus owners just aren't "big minded" enough not to do so.

For the record, here is my list...

1. Taurus 94 2in snub -frequent light strikes not ammo related.
2. Taurus 605 - this was a good one
3. Taurus PT111- trigger broke with the first 65 shots of first range session
4. Taurus 85 - sporadic trigger malfunctions
5-6. Taurus 650 x 2 - one of which would start binding when it heated up because the cylinder/barrel gap was too tight. It worked fine after repairs, but Taurus sent this blued model back with rust on it. The second, stainless 650 worked fine.
7. Taurus 905 IB - would lock up for reasons I was unable to figure out, and Taurus couldn't fix.

Not that anyone would want to, but I'm sure that if one were bored enough to check the archives here and on TFL they could confirm these purchases.

Funny, a guy can't get ahead. Either they are being accused of never having owned a Taurus, or they are ridiculed for being stupid enough to buy too many of them.

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Lol......

Rest assured Doug that I'm "NOT" calling you out on anything at all.
Like I said, I have no reason to doubt you or your word either one.
So it was not my intent to give that impression at all.

I just meant that after #1 and then again with #3, I would have "personally" said "Good Bye Taurus...Catch Ya on the Flip Side"....and called it a day with that particular brand all together.
I mean, there are so many "other" brands out there to choose from, why keep subjecting yourself to the misery?
Unless you just like it like that, and consider it a challenge or something....

MachIVshooter said:

The Taurus issue would be more like selling you a car with loose lug nuts.

Auto dealers (most, anyway) prep any vehicle for sale, be it used or brand new off the trailer from factory. Remove carpet covers and other protectant films, check tire pressure, set clock, calibrate compass, check fluids, test drive a few miles.

I'm a mechanic, I own my company. I inspect new parts for defects and verify proper function before installation/before the vehicle leaves my facility. Not my fault if the part is bad, but 1) I do own some of the responsibility if I miss an obvious flaw and 2) I'm the one who has to deal with the customer, not my parts supplier.

LGS should remove new firearm from packaging, clean it off, give it a basic inspection. Is it the dealer's fault if a new gun has a prblem? No. Are they likely to get blamed on some level and have a less-than-happy customer? Yes. Therefore, it would be prudent for them to give each new gun a once-over.

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OK...Well I like the way you think, and you seem like a real reputable guy to have work on my truck.

But most gun dealers just sell a gun and tell the customer that if they have problems with it, it's the "manufacturer" who handles warranty issues and repair needs.
I mean, I don't have to like that policy either, but that's just usually how it goes. The dealers themselves are just middlemen drug dealers....lol

Rest assured Doug that I'm "NOT" calling you out on anything at all.
Like I said, I have no reason to doubt you or your word either one.
So it was not my intent to give that impression at all.

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No problem. I'm a slow learner I guess, but I eventually learned my lesson.

In discussions like this, one is asking opinions of others. Be it ammo, firearms, holsters, it boils down to what you are comfortable with. Darn, my old Hi Point 45 has given me zero problems over three years. So I am comfortable with this firearm. Period.

I've owned well north of a dozen Taurus handguns. As stated before, some are old enough to have been imported by Interarms. NONE have been returned for a factory defect.

My dealings with S&Wm HK, Sig, and Colt, on the other hand, have been much less satisfactory.

A 625-3 that failed internally on the first shot.

A P229 that cracked it's slide in under 75 rounds.

A USP that patterned instead of grouping.

A Series 80 Government Model that had the sights BOTH leave the gun in 50 rounds.

A Model 617 S&W that ate it's sear pin, and bolt stop in under 100 rounds.

A Model 17 S&W that had undersized cylinder charge holes.

ALL of these required a trip back to the factory, and ALL of them took between 6-8 weeks to resolve. Even the Model 17 that S&W told me was within spec.

Please note that NONE of them involved routine maintenance items, nor could they have been detected during even close inspection.

For me, Taurus has never been an issue. However, the much vaunted S&W plainly should be never trusted.

Taurus is a gun that some people literally travel from forum to forum bashing. That, in the 1970's and 1980's was the exact same issue that S&W had. How many remember the derisive "gun of the week" comments about new introductions? Or the wholesale lament that Bangor Punta and Thompkins were only producing trash? I do. Yet, today, these are the "old" S&W's that many here recommend. I'm guessing that's because they are the survivors of the multitude of guns put out. The few that actually worked?

No manufacturer has any type of public record of warranty returns. So, anytime someone wants to denigrate a brand, this is open territory. Check with the LEO forums, or the internal memos of the LEO community, and you'll get a truly eye-opening taste of gun problems from purportedly popular manufacturer's weapons. There is NO "perfection". None.

skidder said:

You are now officially a "basher", but don't sweat it . Valid Taurus complaints are often categorized under this term.

Common sense is a virtue. The ones who deny the high complaint ratio of taurus are usually the ones cherry picking in defense of a company that does not hold quality as one of its main staples. Calling people with valid complaints "bashers" puts them on the defensive. This derogatory term will only invoke hostility by insinuating their complaint is miniscule or fabricated. Everybody has pride in their current collection, but to habitually defend and disregard what is analytically in plain sight is not solid ground. We can do the dance of the "silver tongue" or......pull out our calculators and do the math.

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skt239 said:

Skidder,

I agree with you but the problem is doing the math would be tough. Taurus would never give up info on their return rate (I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't keep any kind of record) so the only other way would be to poll dealers. I have seen a few pictures on the forums of dealer posted signs warning they will not cover shipping for Taurus repairs (due to high volume) or that they have stopped dealing with them all together.

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Good point, but the math I'm referring to is the online complaints. These complaints are across the board on several forums (except taurusarmed.net), and too often to be just a bunch of ya-hoos out trolling to heap misery on Taurus.
I myself am a member of tuarusarmed.net and have some early posts in this forum bragging of my 970 and my other Tracker before it went south to the factory. God did not create me to be a so called "basher" it was a learned behavior. Right now there is another poll in this forum with the numbers I'm referring to. "63 say no-way buy a Taurus", and "60 yes without hesitation" (current count at this moment). How can you say there is not a problem with numbers like these? The complaints are just way to high, and what baffles me is how people can say "I have a good one" and ignore these numbers like they are all fabricated? Then...turn around and recommend Taurus to a noob. Again, I'm not saying there aren't any good ones, but there are just to many bad ones to allow me to keep my mouth shut when somebody asks "should I buy a Taurus?".

Skidder,

I see your point.
When the numbers of people who complain about a certain product rises to around 50% or so....it's hard to believe that each and every one of them are only "bashers" parroting what they read someplace else. There is probably a little more to it than just that.

If you do a Google search for example on "Harley Oil Leak," you'll get a million hits on people talking about their bike leaking oil.
You'll also get a few hits from hard-core Harley fans saying, "My bike has never leaked oil even once."

But the numbers don't always lie.
I've had a Harley since 2001, and it "does" leak oil too.
I like the bike, but that doesn't change the facts.

Pan heads were DESIGNED to "leak" on the primary chain, now it was lubricated. TC88s address a lot of oil leak problems like replacing base gaskets with "O" rings. They're quire up to day regards to leaking, internal engine design not so much.

So, you see, regards to oil leaks, MODERN NEW HDs don't. Pans do by design and shovels do before break in. Evos did from the base gasket eventually if you were impatient and often didn't let the bike warm up before riding off.

Quality of Taurus? Well, I've not had a problem. Two I bought used, one new, but I checked all three out before purchase. I do the same for other guns, ESPECIALLY new and of course used Smith and Wesson revolvers.

MCgunner said:

Pan heads were DESIGNED to "leak" on the primary chain, now it was lubricated. TC88s address a lot of oil leak problems like replacing base gaskets with "O" rings. They're quire up to day regards to leaking, internal engine design not so much.

So, you see, regards to oil leaks, MODERN NEW HDs don't. Pans do by design and shovels do before break in. Evos did from the base gasket eventually if you were impatient and often didn't let the bike warm up before riding off.

Quality of Taurus? Well, I've not had a problem. Two I bought used, one new, but I checked all three out before purchase. I do the same for other guns, ESPECIALLY new and of course used Smith and Wesson revolvers.

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Mine kept leaking from the rocker box covers instead....
It finally quit when I changed to after-market steel gaskets instead of the OEM paper/cardboard type.
So now, my Taurus revolver no longer leaks oil.

Wait....what were we talking about again?

Skidder,

You're trying to confuse us with the facts!!! People that "own" Taurus products and have QC issues are by definition, bashers. Just ask any "Defender Of Taurus."

The one I owned was a POS, plain and simple. Comparing them to the overall quality of Smith and Wesson, Colts, and Sigs is just ignorant. The fact that Taurus handguns are not shot in national competition speaks volumes to me.

As for Harleys, I started riding them in 1967 and rode them for over thirty years until a friend let me ride his BMW, I sold both my Harleys and bought a BMW within a month...I just couldn't ignore the quality......

taurus usually makes some descent guns. the problem is when one of their guns is a POS and you try to get them to fix it.

Remllez said:

Skidder,

You're trying to confuse us with the facts!!! People that "own" Taurus products and have QC issues are by definition, bashers. Just ask any "Defender Of Taurus."

The one I owned was a POS, plain and simple. Comparing them to the overall quality of Smith and Wesson, Colts, and Sigs is just ignorant. The fact that Taurus handguns are not shot in national competition speaks volumes to me.

As for Harleys, I started riding them in 1967 and rode them for over thirty years until a friend let me ride his BMW, I sold both my Harleys and bought a BMW within a month...I just couldn't ignore the quality......

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Harley BASHER!!!!!


lol......