My Taurus 850 CIA Cylinder Fell Out on Ground
- Thread starter One78Shovel
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So I keep hearing, though experience has shown me otherwise. I've had several firearms fail on me (autos and revolvers) so I accept that they can both have problems.
One78Shovel
Member
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oldfool
Member
well, I think the gate swings both ways
I agree with what Old Fuff said, and with what mmitch said
Me, I do clean my guns after every range session, and inspect 'em for at least the obvious easy stuff. Carry screwdrivers, loctite, etc, etc in my range kit, just a matter of habit.
Just got a little careless about checking that old T-66, after so many rounds "fired". Snap caps don't leave much powder residue, no CLP required; no cleaning required, got lazy about inspecting.
But if 'manufacturer X' earns themselves a reputation the old fashioned way, for routinely putting out too many NIB pieces with obvious flaws and/or need for warranty work before the 'new car smell' has even faded, then I think they deserve the sting of a little public ridicule. At the least.
faulting buyer should be no excuse whatever for forgiving factory
two mistakes do not make the first mistake irrelevant
As trivial as a loose screw is, these objects are required to reliably go bang with deadly seriousness. One screw loose is just one screw loose, but the real impact of that is wondering just what else did factory not do right. Finding out after 50 rounds, 500 rounds or "500 miles at highway speed" is disconcerting. A close inspection on the glass countertop or test drive around the block is simply not enough. Confidence in integrity of maker also matters, and it is up to them to earn that confidence. Warranty work required, buyer fixing it themselves DYI , that does not build confidence. Steering wheel comes off my new Chevy truck after 500 miles, rolling down the highway at 60 mph, color me unhappy, whether or not I hit the wall.
a NIB firearm is not supposed to be a "kit" for you to take home yourself, to finish building yourself, or fixing yourself.
Not unless advertised as such. (some ARs just might qualify, but not NIB revolvers)
Everybody screws up every once in a while.
Making a habit of it is not something to be praised.
I agree with what Old Fuff said, and with what mmitch said
Me, I do clean my guns after every range session, and inspect 'em for at least the obvious easy stuff. Carry screwdrivers, loctite, etc, etc in my range kit, just a matter of habit.
Just got a little careless about checking that old T-66, after so many rounds "fired". Snap caps don't leave much powder residue, no CLP required; no cleaning required, got lazy about inspecting.
But if 'manufacturer X' earns themselves a reputation the old fashioned way, for routinely putting out too many NIB pieces with obvious flaws and/or need for warranty work before the 'new car smell' has even faded, then I think they deserve the sting of a little public ridicule. At the least.
faulting buyer should be no excuse whatever for forgiving factory
two mistakes do not make the first mistake irrelevant
As trivial as a loose screw is, these objects are required to reliably go bang with deadly seriousness. One screw loose is just one screw loose, but the real impact of that is wondering just what else did factory not do right. Finding out after 50 rounds, 500 rounds or "500 miles at highway speed" is disconcerting. A close inspection on the glass countertop or test drive around the block is simply not enough. Confidence in integrity of maker also matters, and it is up to them to earn that confidence. Warranty work required, buyer fixing it themselves DYI , that does not build confidence. Steering wheel comes off my new Chevy truck after 500 miles, rolling down the highway at 60 mph, color me unhappy, whether or not I hit the wall.
a NIB firearm is not supposed to be a "kit" for you to take home yourself, to finish building yourself, or fixing yourself.
Not unless advertised as such. (some ARs just might qualify, but not NIB revolvers)
Everybody screws up every once in a while.
Making a habit of it is not something to be praised.
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SabbathWolf
member
That's it in a nutshell right there Sir.
I agree.
Traditional ineptness should not be a tradition.
It's kinda like continuing to vote Democrat when you are hoping for Republican policies.
SabbathWolf
member
BSA1
member
Why some of you think it's OK to have a NEW gun fail and to say it's the users fault is mind boggling.
It depends on the cause of the problem. A loose screw can hardly be considered a design fault or part failure. It is a minor quality control issue that we know to check the screws on all of our firearms from time to time. However a novice gunowner buying a gun for the nightstand may not be expected to have the knowledge or proper tools to check such items.
However the lack of knowledge to perform routine maintenance checks can not be blamed on the manufacturer. I think the blame lies with the dealer. The sellor has a responsibility to educate the user about proper maintenance and gains the opportunity to sell the cleaning kit and screwdrivers.
Now THIS is a gun failure:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=656223
It depends on the cause of the problem. A loose screw can hardly be considered a design fault or part failure. It is a minor quality control issue that we know to check the screws on all of our firearms from time to time. However a novice gunowner buying a gun for the nightstand may not be expected to have the knowledge or proper tools to check such items.
However the lack of knowledge to perform routine maintenance checks can not be blamed on the manufacturer. I think the blame lies with the dealer. The sellor has a responsibility to educate the user about proper maintenance and gains the opportunity to sell the cleaning kit and screwdrivers.
Now THIS is a gun failure:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=656223
SabbathWolf
member
Wait a second...what?
Why would it be the dealers responsibility?
If I go buy a new car, the dealer doesn't teach me how to drive it or avoid crashing it.
One78Shovel
Member
How can you have discussions when they leave you on hold twice for a total of 1 hour? Maybe becuase they are discussing perhaps other warranty issues with other customers?
Look, I own Rugers, Glocks, Kimbers, Daniel Defense, Springfield Armory, Bersa, Remington, Winchester, Sig Sauer and they all answer the phone in what is considered a resonable time. But the biggest note is; The guns do not fall apart out of the box after less than 50 rounds. But lets not confuse things with facts.
That is a hard firm data point.
-178S
You are now officially a "basher", but don't sweat it
. Valid Taurus complaints are often categorized under this term.Common sense is a virtue. The ones who deny the high complaint ratio of taurus are usually the ones cherry picking in defense of a company that does not hold quality as one of its main staples. Calling people with valid complaints "bashers" puts them on the defensive. This derogatory term will only invoke hostility by insinuating their complaint is miniscule or fabricated. Everybody has pride in their current collection, but to habitually defend and disregard what is analytically in plain sight is not solid ground. We can do the dance of the "silver tongue" or......pull out our calculators and do the math.
Skidder,
I agree with you but the problem is doing the math would be tough. Taurus would never give up info on their return rate (I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't keep any kind of record) so the only other way would be to poll dealers. I have seen a few pictures on the forums of dealer posted signs warning they will not cover shipping for Taurus repairs (due to high volume) or that they have stopped dealing with them all together.
As for the OP's problem, it's not uncommon to Taurus revolvers at all. Every Taurus revolver I owned had screwed that walked and if that was the only problem, I was happy. While a screw drive is a easy fix, it sucks when you forget to tighten screws after a range session and they cylinder latch falls off when you take your gun off for that day. Or what about side plate screws walking and you don't have the right screw driver (using the wrong size will bugger the screws and mess up the side plate) so your revolver just sits there till I can go out and buy one. Sure, a screw driver is cheap and the gun store is right up the street but who wants to bother with all that nonsense?
I think it's silly to buy a modern, self defense revolver and have to constantly be on the look out for a potential problem that's common to the brand. I carry the same revolver 13 hours a day and put around 100+ rounds through it every 2-3 weeks. Other than cleaning after firing, the daily wipe down and light cleaning on the weekends, the revolver requires nothing else. That's what I expect from any gun I use for SD, guns that can't live up to those basic and simple standards are regulated to range duty.
I agree with you but the problem is doing the math would be tough. Taurus would never give up info on their return rate (I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't keep any kind of record) so the only other way would be to poll dealers. I have seen a few pictures on the forums of dealer posted signs warning they will not cover shipping for Taurus repairs (due to high volume) or that they have stopped dealing with them all together.
As for the OP's problem, it's not uncommon to Taurus revolvers at all. Every Taurus revolver I owned had screwed that walked and if that was the only problem, I was happy. While a screw drive is a easy fix, it sucks when you forget to tighten screws after a range session and they cylinder latch falls off when you take your gun off for that day. Or what about side plate screws walking and you don't have the right screw driver (using the wrong size will bugger the screws and mess up the side plate) so your revolver just sits there till I can go out and buy one. Sure, a screw driver is cheap and the gun store is right up the street but who wants to bother with all that nonsense?
I think it's silly to buy a modern, self defense revolver and have to constantly be on the look out for a potential problem that's common to the brand. I carry the same revolver 13 hours a day and put around 100+ rounds through it every 2-3 weeks. Other than cleaning after firing, the daily wipe down and light cleaning on the weekends, the revolver requires nothing else. That's what I expect from any gun I use for SD, guns that can't live up to those basic and simple standards are regulated to range duty.
Tomcat47
Member
No Problems....20+ years buying Taurus firearms.
Never been on Phone with Taurus CS more than 10 minutes...
Always have done good by me? Received parts in a couple days...
(All 2 of them over 20 years....1911 slide stop & 92 ejector)
I always feel that there is more to the bad CS experience than meets the eye with Taurus? Even they say they are working on improving it but never a hitch in all these years. Is the ones that complain about there CS calling in on PMS to start with? Cussing? Demanding Satisfaction?
Just sayin.................
Never been on Phone with Taurus CS more than 10 minutes...
Always have done good by me? Received parts in a couple days...
(All 2 of them over 20 years....1911 slide stop & 92 ejector)
I always feel that there is more to the bad CS experience than meets the eye with Taurus? Even they say they are working on improving it but never a hitch in all these years. Is the ones that complain about there CS calling in on PMS to start with? Cussing? Demanding Satisfaction?
Just sayin.................
BSA1
member
Wait a second...what?
Why would it be the dealers responsibility?
If I go buy a new car, the dealer doesn't teach me how to drive it or avoid crashing it.
Yes that is exactly what I mean. The dealership makes sure I know how to drive by checking my driviers license.
Then the salesperson spends time pointing out the location of the controls, features and how to operate them. If I decide to buy the vehicle they tell me when the first oil change is due along with other maintenance. So when I drive off the lot I know the features, the location of the controls and how to operate them.
The gun dealer has the same responsibility although it varies according to the knowledge and skill of the shooter. For a experienced shooter that may only be pointing out special features on the gun say the sights.
For a novice/new shooter. A explanation of the operation of the gun, how to clean it, what routine maintenance to perform. A smart salesperson may enroll the buyer in a safety class, sell a cleaning kit and screwdrivers.
Joe Smuck salesperson makes a gun sale and lets the customer figure out the rest on their own.
Joe Cool takes time to get to know the customers needs, becomes a resource for the customer and enhances the profits for his business.
p.s. My wife's Taurus M-85 has been trouble free ever since we brought over 10 years ago.
Why would it be the dealers responsibility?
If I go buy a new car, the dealer doesn't teach me how to drive it or avoid crashing it.
Yes that is exactly what I mean. The dealership makes sure I know how to drive by checking my driviers license.
Then the salesperson spends time pointing out the location of the controls, features and how to operate them. If I decide to buy the vehicle they tell me when the first oil change is due along with other maintenance. So when I drive off the lot I know the features, the location of the controls and how to operate them.
The gun dealer has the same responsibility although it varies according to the knowledge and skill of the shooter. For a experienced shooter that may only be pointing out special features on the gun say the sights.
For a novice/new shooter. A explanation of the operation of the gun, how to clean it, what routine maintenance to perform. A smart salesperson may enroll the buyer in a safety class, sell a cleaning kit and screwdrivers.
Joe Smuck salesperson makes a gun sale and lets the customer figure out the rest on their own.
Joe Cool takes time to get to know the customers needs, becomes a resource for the customer and enhances the profits for his business.
p.s. My wife's Taurus M-85 has been trouble free ever since we brought over 10 years ago.
Tomcat47
Member
....and that is why when I buy a car, I get a warranty to cover unforeseen problems at the time of purchase.....
Like a Throttle Body Recall at 20,000 miles....(100,000 Warranty)..
Back to Dealer...Replaced with new throttle body...and..."I,m on the Road Again"....
Taurus ........ Lifetime Warranty! Unforeseen problem....covered!
Like a Throttle Body Recall at 20,000 miles....(100,000 Warranty)..
Back to Dealer...Replaced with new throttle body...and..."I,m on the Road Again"....
Taurus ........ Lifetime Warranty! Unforeseen problem....covered!
SabbathWolf
member
That's all fine and dandy...but a Dealer is not going to tell you right up front that the brand of car is generally junk.
They want to make a sale...and get paid to do so.
Ya lost me....
Some people get a Taurus gun and never have a problem. I get that...and don't disagree.
But, why I wonder do we hear so many more complaints about Taurus than say Smith or Ruger for example?
It's because they just can't compete and enough people have mentioned it to the point that there must be some truth to it in my book.
If Taurus was all wonderful and everything, you'd hear a higher percentage of praise rather than issues and problems.
Just sayin'.....
Oh yeah......and having a drivers license doesn't mean you can drive either.
It's only used as a form of ID by the dealer.
Once you drive off the lot, they couldn't care less if you crash 20 times on the way home or not....lol
MCgunner
Member
Loctite solves a lot of problems.
Coal Dragger
member
Screws come loose under firing after awhile. I periodically re-tighten the screws on my Freedom Arms M83 that secure the grip frame to the frame, and that has prevented any issues.
I might try to use some loctite on them though.
I might try to use some loctite on them though.
MCgunner
Member
Use the blue, NOT the red, if you ever wanna take the gun apart again. The stuff works. I used to keep it around for a certain single cylinder 600cc road race motorcycle I had which ran 13:1 compression and had the counter balancer shaft removed. It shook pretty bad, blue Loctite and safety wire were my friends. I have it on the crane screw of all my DA revolvers, Taurus, Rossi, Smith and Wesson. This screw WILL back out, especially on light weight magnum revolvers. Loctite just assures it won't.
I have it on the crane screw of all my DA revolvers, Taurus, Rossi, Smith and Wesson. This screw WILL back out, especially on light weight magnum revolvers. Loctite just assures it won't.
BSA1
member
That's all fine and dandy...but a Dealer is not going to tell you right up front that the brand of car is generally junk.
They want to make a sale...and get paid to do so.
Ya lost me....
Some people get a Taurus gun and never have a problem. I get that...and don't disagree.
But, why I wonder do we hear so many more complaints about Taurus than say Smith or Ruger for example?
It's because they just can't compete and enough people have mentioned it to the point that there must be some truth to it in my book.
If Taurus was all wonderful and everything, you'd hear a higher percentage of praise rather than issues and problems.
Just sayin'.....
Oh yeah......and having a drivers license doesn't mean you can drive either.
It's only used as a form of ID by the dealer.
Once you drive off the lot, they couldn't care less if you crash 20 times on the way home or not....lol
I would suggest that since you consider Taurus handguns to be junk you pay more attention to stories about them having problems.
I would also suggest that nothing is going to change your mind about their quality control.
Which is fine with me as there are so many guns to buy and so little time. ;-)
They want to make a sale...and get paid to do so.
Ya lost me....
Some people get a Taurus gun and never have a problem. I get that...and don't disagree.
But, why I wonder do we hear so many more complaints about Taurus than say Smith or Ruger for example?
It's because they just can't compete and enough people have mentioned it to the point that there must be some truth to it in my book.
If Taurus was all wonderful and everything, you'd hear a higher percentage of praise rather than issues and problems.
Just sayin'.....
Oh yeah......and having a drivers license doesn't mean you can drive either.
It's only used as a form of ID by the dealer.
Once you drive off the lot, they couldn't care less if you crash 20 times on the way home or not....lol
I would suggest that since you consider Taurus handguns to be junk you pay more attention to stories about them having problems.
I would also suggest that nothing is going to change your mind about their quality control.
Which is fine with me as there are so many guns to buy and so little time. ;-)
Tomcat47
Member
One must also consider this....
And I have and Love my S&Wesson firearms, but there have been a couple minor issues over the years with mine as well as others I know....insignificant!
Now, If S&W (as example only) produced the number of... (revolvers - another example) that Taurus produced every year, they would probably receive equal criticism....just sayin.....and they produce no where near the quantity that Taurus does.
Wish I knew the quantity (true number) of revolvers or total firearms they produce each year? And the Quantity (true number) that were returned for repair? That would give a true ratio to there quality on a manufacturing standpoint.
But that wont matter either...Taurus haters will always hate em....just the way it is!..........
And I have and Love my S&Wesson firearms, but there have been a couple minor issues over the years with mine as well as others I know....insignificant!
Now, If S&W (as example only) produced the number of... (revolvers - another example) that Taurus produced every year, they would probably receive equal criticism....just sayin.....and they produce no where near the quantity that Taurus does.
Wish I knew the quantity (true number) of revolvers or total firearms they produce each year? And the Quantity (true number) that were returned for repair? That would give a true ratio to there quality on a manufacturing standpoint.
But that wont matter either...Taurus haters will always hate em....just the way it is!..........
SabbathWolf
member
You're right.
Nothing is going to change my mind.
I had a Taurus 38spl that gave me nothing but problems.
So I've experienced it first hand, not vicariously through stories by somebody else.
I don't "have" to like Taurus any more any you can't make me....
Taurus fell apart?
They all do that-right? I heard Taurus has a new deal where they give you a free shipping return label with each gun they sell. Good idea. Not that they fix them. I had one that spent enough time in the air to get enough frequent flyer miles to ship that sucker one way to Australia.. gone for good.
They all do that-right? I heard Taurus has a new deal where they give you a free shipping return label with each gun they sell. Good idea. Not that they fix them. I had one that spent enough time in the air to get enough frequent flyer miles to ship that sucker one way to Australia.. gone for good.
MCgunner
Member
I'll keep all mine, thanks.
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