A little freaked out at the range today.

For those of you who replied you would have said something about how being downrange while someone is firing is an unsafe and highly dangerous act . . .


What would your response have been if these kids had replied, "Who are you to tell us what we can and can't do?"


Remember, this is a range on municipally-owned property that appears to be open to anyone, who has just as much of a right to be there and shoot as you do. I'm not aware of any criminal code that says you can't voluntarily engaged in unsafe behavior, so you're going to have a tough time getting a police officer out there to throw the guys off of it.

I can just see that: spotter guy 3' from the target, stickies in one hand, beer in the other....

You can't fix stupid!

I'da RUN!

Chiming in on the general consensus, RUN! Emergency Room soup consists of 90% stupid with a dash of unlucky for seasoning.

Probably the only thing that really bothers me about this scenario is it showing up in the news as "another senseless gun death"

Well, OK, the senseless part is accurate.

BullfrogKen said:

Yup. Nonsense like that is the very reason I join private clubs. If I see something going on there that shouldn't be happening, I will step in and stop it immediately and call someone on the Board of Directors right away if I have to.


But on a public range on public land . . . the response you'd be likely to get is "who the hell are you to tell us what we can and can't do!"


The fact that it's just a plainly obvious stupid, unsafe and highly dangerous act doesn't matter to some kids. It just matters that you can't tell them what they can and can't do.


The evil side of me would ask if this guy wouldn't mind also spotting and marking my rounds for me, since he was already down there . . . as I fumbled my way around loading mags and exaggerated "not really knowing quite how my new gun works".

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Nailed it. Sometimes you have to trust your gut OP.

Let me suggest how the conversation would NOT have gone:

"Hey fellas, that's dangerous. Don't do that."

"Golly gee, sir! I had no idea this was dangerous! We shall stop this stupidity immediately!"

Seriously, to the guys giving the OP a hard time - this wasn't just ignorance, it was willful ignorance.

I'm going to disagree with the bulk of these responses:
When I was a kid I was new to rockclimbing. I had always belayed (held the rope for the climber) from the ground, where you don't need to tie in to anything. One day, my buddy and I thought we'd be better off top-roping. This is where I sit on the rock above him, and belay him as he climbs. I settled in and propped my feet against a rock as he climbed, but never tied myself onto anything up there! Another climber on the top of the rock ran over to me and said "If he falls, you're both going down!" I was mortified, and immediately repented my stupidity, and asked his help to lock in. I still shiver when I think of it! In retrospect, it was the most obvious thing in the world, but my teenage scatterbrain overlooked it. I was so grateful that that other climber straightened me out.
In the OP's situation, it could be that a firm, but gentle word to the shooter, "Hey, you could very well kill your buddy down there" may have snapped him out of his youthful, self absorbed haze. If so, well done. If he tells you to "pound sand", then I agree with the other posters: flee from stupidity when it's armed!

I would have left, too. Never point out his stupidity to an armed man.

Unsafe range stuff makes me angry.

We can't shoot metal swing targets / gongs / etc at our range because some jackass brought a bowling ball out once, rolled it out as far as he could from the line, and started shooting pistols at it. Bullets ricocheting everywhere. This is at a PRIVATE range, no less. He got evicted from club membership for being stupid and putting fellow shooters at risk. But the board passed a motion that from that point on all rounds will impact a backstop and only targets which can be stapled to the plywood stands can be used at the range (paper targets, balloons, sometimes clay pigeons on the bank, that's about it.)

Now steel targets are only allowed at steel on steel matches. I have a couple of expensive targets made of armor plate that are designed to withstand a couple THOUSAND rounds out of a 300 win mag, which are currently collecting so much dust in my basement.

Cause, effect.

Sometimes the dumb crap people do affects others in ways they never imagined.

For those of you who replied you would have said something about how being downrange while someone is firing is an unsafe and highly dangerous act . . .


What would your response have been if these kids had replied, "Who are you to tell us what we can and can't do?"

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As I stated...

I then would have left with a clean conscience...

BullfrogKen said:

For those of you who replied you would have said something about how being downrange while someone is firing is an unsafe and highly dangerous act . . .


What would your response have been if these kids had replied, "Who are you to tell us what we can and can't do?"


Remember, this is a range on municipally-owned property that appears to be open to anyone, who has just as much of a right to be there and shoot as you do. I'm not aware of any criminal code that says you can't voluntarily engaged in unsafe behavior, so you're going to have a tough time getting a police officer out there to throw the guys off of it.

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I would be observing them as I approached to make sure of the previous exceptions I mentioned in my earlier post as a reason not to speak with them.
Assuming they seemed ok, I'd say in a nice but firm tone of voice that someone standing downrange while another was shooting is a definite safety violation that would not be tolerated at a supervised range.
I'd explain that I was once younger and did not know all the safety rules, but learned over time as others were kind enough to inform me of them. If the kid/s seemed reasonable then I might be willing to engage them further. However if they gave me an attitude, I'd politely excuse myself, knowing I did what I could to help prevent a potential tragedy.

As to the notion they have just as much right as I do, I respectfully disagree. Even at private ranges you could say paying members have the same rights as I do, but you as an individual have the right to call a ceasefire if someone is violating the safety rules. Sure you will have to explain to the range master why you called a ceasefire, but if you are correct, you will be thanked rather than admonished.
In this case you cannot legally stop them from firing, but you can certainly try to educate them as to proper safety procedures.

I'd also be surprised that there are not at least some posted rules if some of these ranges are unsupervised. Heck even public tennis courts that are unattended have posted rules for proper etiquette and court usage.
You would think the county would have some rules posted, if for no other reason as to try and mitigate liability if there was an injury/fatality.

`

Don't feel guilty for being a Survivor.

I would have done the same thing, but documented the vehicle plates-most probably narcotics involved in one of their backgrounds.

You cannot fix stupid, argue with it, or win in a shoot out with it; somebody's going to jail.

I know there are people who flat out object to going to a "supervised" range because they know how to handle guns properly. I personally prefer going to and belonging to a range with rangemasters watching over the firing line. I know my capabilities but have no idea about the guy next to me and I'm glad there is an extra pair of eyes watching that isn't focused on a target down range! They are there to spot the problems before they get dangerous!

If I had rolled up to the scene from the OP, I would have left as well. My first aid training doesn't cover stupid!

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Gtimothy said:

I know there are people who flat out object to going to a "supervised" range because they know how to handle guns properly. I personally prefer going to and belonging to a range with rangemasters watching over the firing line. I know my capabilities but have no idea about the guy next to me and I'm glad there is an extra pair of eyes watching that isn't focused on a target down range! They are there to spot the problems before they get dangerous!

If I had rolled up to the scene from the OP, I would have left as well. My first aid training doesn't cover stupid!

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I agree, that. Is also why I don't shoot at my normal range on weekends when every idiot is trying to teach his current girlfriend how to shoot his new pistol that he doesn't know how to shoot.

I can't imagine being downrange from a Mosin Nagant. The boom from one is deafening and thunderous even behind the firing line. The concussion 100 yards down range would be pretty harsh!

TrueTexan said:

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I agree, that. Is also why I don't shoot at my normal range on weekends when every idiot is trying to teach his current girlfriend how to shoot his new pistol that he doesn't know how to shoot.

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Kinda ironic. Last weekend I had set up to shoot half a dozen handguns at my local unsupervised range. Most of the time other than the month before gun deer season I have the place to myself. Anyway I had set up my bench @ my normal 40 yards and had been shooting for a coupla hours when I noticed a young couple standing behind the fence by the parking lot watching me. Knowing I had several hundred rounds to go before I would be ready to quit, I walked over and told them I was gonna be there a while, but they were welcome to shoot beside me, or if they wanted to shoot ahead of me or behind me, I would take a break. I also told them they could use my bench and rest if they wanted. The guy thanked me and said they were just gonna try out the new .40 he had just bought and only had one box of shells. Since he brought no paper targets with him, I gave him one and some duct tape and went to the truck to grab a drink. They set up @ the ranges 15 yard bench and began shooting. I stayed in the parking lot and gave them their space as I know sometimes new shooters with new guns get nervous with other folks watchin'. They were takin' turns shooting, swithchin' off every mag, when I noticed the one not shooting was covering their ears with their hands as the other one shot. As they walked by me after they finished, I told them if I had known they didn't have ear protection I would have gladly given them each a pair of disposable ear plugs. From the lack of any reaction, I don't think either one of them heard me........

Trust the GUT! It wont lie to you! It told you to leave and your feet followed your gut!

If you had gone up to these guys, I would have tried to do it a polite calm manner. I would have also whipped out my phone and youTubed the guy getting hit in the head from a ricochette off the target to help prove my point that standing so close may not have been in their best interest.

I shoot at an open, unsupervised range in the Francis Marion National Forest (near Charleston SC) when I am home. It's got a berm at 100 yards and a covered firing line - plain but it's fine. I've been there at least 60 times.

Most of the time, I am outright impressed by how well things go and how safely people act even with no one in charge. We call cease fires every 15 or 20 min to change targets, "range is hot" after the cease fires, etc. I meet nice people, they shoot some of my stuff, I shoot some of theirs, etc.

Once, though, I had a guy fire at his target while I was downrange changing mine (pistol, 15m out from the firing line). I think he was drinking at the range. Classily, he had his young son with him. Others still on the firing line stopped him after he fired one .357 round which hit the ground about 5' from me.

In the situation described by the OP, being realistic since it's a 30 min drive for me to get there, I would have probably stayed in the parking lot a while hoping they would leave. I would not have fired at the range with someone downrange, obviously. I would not have tried to educate or talk to them either, though.

This is still really bothering me. I didn't add in my original post that I'm a firefighter and I was wearing my duty shirt at the time. I still feel like crap that... My first thought of this is unsafe stop it, was overridden by my second thought of get the Hell out of here quick.

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How many times have you been on a rescue call or fireground and something tapped your subconscious and warned you of danger. NEVER feel guilty for going with your gut. You saw something that tipped you off to personal danger without even realizing it and you reacted to that. You did the smart thing.

You did the right thing. When I go to the range I have the expectation of enjoyment and accomplishment. There is no telling what the shooter's reaction would be. Even if they agreed it was not the "smart" thing to do and quit, you'd still be shooting while they were nearby. That is if they took your suggestion, otherwise your dealing with someone that has a loaded rifle that might get irked at your observation.

If they were that dumb to begin with - just exactly WHAT are you going to say to them to get the lightbulb to turn on? "Maybe you should have your buddy stand in front of the target so he can see it better"?

We have no problems at our state ranges---everyone is treated as a 2 year old & it keeps the range very safe

BullfrogKen said:

For those of you who replied you would have said something about how being downrange while someone is firing is an unsafe and highly dangerous act . . .


What would your response have been if these kids had replied, "Who are you to tell us what we can and can't do?"


Remember, this is a range on municipally-owned property that appears to be open to anyone, who has just as much of a right to be there and shoot as you do. I'm not aware of any criminal code that says you can't voluntarily engaged in unsafe behavior, so you're going to have a tough time getting a police officer out there to throw the guys off of it.

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Not a thing. When they see me pull up in my Maverick with my buddy squirting gas from a Windex bottle into the busted carb, little remains to be said. They'd high-tail it quick like.

Both public ranges around here are unsupervised. IMHO you did the right thing by leaving. People on a public range do stupid things. At one of the local ranges here a guy was having his buddy chuck clay pigeons downrange to shoot (basically shooting trap, but less formal, and on a rifle range). When another shooter told him he wasn't allowed to do that here he turned and pointed his gun at the other shooter and shouted "I can do whatever the hell I want!".

The cops were called naturally, but being that far out in the country the guy was long gone.

That and other stuff (particularly just the crowded nature and general mentality I see) has me mostly turned off to public ranges. I guarantee if they charged as low a fee as they wanted - heck $20 per year - 90% of the problems would go away.

As it is I usually go to an indoor range which is only $5 per visit. I'm planning on moving early next year and at that point I should be closer to a nice outdoor club/range that has great facilities and at $250 per year it's mostly serious shooters.