orrwdd
Member
Besides, an oversized firing pin stop will not hurt, it can only help reliable ejection.
45acp case damage, new reloader, help
- Thread starter AllThrtl
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Ok, here's where I'm at. I was at the range Monday, with the same 200gn LSWC, brass and primers, I loaded up 10 each of 4.0gn, 4.5gn, 5.0gn, 5.5gn and 6.0gn of Bullseye. Lyman 49th recommends starting with 4.9 and a max of 6.0 when using Bullseye.
I cleared all the leftover brass from around my shooting area. Then shot 5 of each load from the benchrest, paying particular attention to #5 round with each load. At 4.0gn, no jam. 4.5,5.0,5.5 each jammed on the #5 round, see pics, and the slide locked back each time. 6.0gn did eject but with a smaller amount of case damage. I then swapped mags, ran the same test, no jams and the only case damage was on the #5 round of the 6.0gn load and it had very small nick on the case mouth.
I then did the same test with a box of Federal Champion 230gn FMJ, equal shots between the mags, no FTE or case damage.
It would lead me to believe it is a magazine issue, but why only on reloads? That doesn't make sense. I understand what 1911Tuner is saying about the extractor and FPS, but why only with reloads?
I appreciate the input...
I cleared all the leftover brass from around my shooting area. Then shot 5 of each load from the benchrest, paying particular attention to #5 round with each load. At 4.0gn, no jam. 4.5,5.0,5.5 each jammed on the #5 round, see pics, and the slide locked back each time. 6.0gn did eject but with a smaller amount of case damage. I then swapped mags, ran the same test, no jams and the only case damage was on the #5 round of the 6.0gn load and it had very small nick on the case mouth.
I then did the same test with a box of Federal Champion 230gn FMJ, equal shots between the mags, no FTE or case damage.
It would lead me to believe it is a magazine issue, but why only on reloads? That doesn't make sense. I understand what 1911Tuner is saying about the extractor and FPS, but why only with reloads?
I appreciate the input...
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243winxb
Member
My very old Lyman data lists 4.8 gr as maximum with 200 gr cast lswc. More powder would increase/change the slide speed/timing. A magazine that feeds differently than another would make a difference. Does the Mil-Spec 1911 have the enlarged/opened ejection port like target guns?
Snobal
Member
All this is new to me being mostly a revolver shooter.
However, when I first started shooting a 3 1/2" Citadel .45 acp, it was smashing cases like the op's gun.
Our local gunsmith suggested that the Citadel's recoil spring was either too light or too heavy for my target loads of 3.8 grains of bullseye powder with a 200 grain, cast, SWC bullet.
I installed a new, 24 lb recoil spring (which according to some internet info was the proper weight of a stock recoil spring for a 3 1/2" 1911) and that gun has shot perfectly since (only about 1,500 rounds so far).
My 5" Range Officer "ate" a case last week (just like the op's is doing) and today I'm waiting for delivery of a new, stock powder recoil spring (16 lbs).
This RO now has about 2,150 rounds through it by my records so per some of the internet "experts," it is due for a new recoil spring.
If the new recoil spring does not "fix" the problem, I'll attempt to adjust the extractor per the suggestions given on this thread.
Thanks everyone!
JMHO - YRMV
However, when I first started shooting a 3 1/2" Citadel .45 acp, it was smashing cases like the op's gun.
Our local gunsmith suggested that the Citadel's recoil spring was either too light or too heavy for my target loads of 3.8 grains of bullseye powder with a 200 grain, cast, SWC bullet.
I installed a new, 24 lb recoil spring (which according to some internet info was the proper weight of a stock recoil spring for a 3 1/2" 1911) and that gun has shot perfectly since (only about 1,500 rounds so far).
My 5" Range Officer "ate" a case last week (just like the op's is doing) and today I'm waiting for delivery of a new, stock powder recoil spring (16 lbs).
This RO now has about 2,150 rounds through it by my records so per some of the internet "experts," it is due for a new recoil spring.
If the new recoil spring does not "fix" the problem, I'll attempt to adjust the extractor per the suggestions given on this thread.
Thanks everyone!
JMHO - YRMV
thump_rrr
Member
Do this simple test and report back to us.
Remove the slide from the frame.
Insert an empty cartridge under the extractor and shake the slide.
At this point you should only have a slide in your hand and not an assembled firearm.
No matter how firmly you shake the slide you should not be able to shake the case out.
If this is the case then insert a loaded round and shake. The cartridge should fall out with a firm shake otherwise there is too much tension on the extractor.
If the empty case falls out or doesn't even hold try adjusting the extractor for a little more tension.
This cured the problem on my Springfield.
An oversized firing pin stop will cure the extractor clocking but isn't always necessary to cure the problem and requires hand fitting which you may or may not want to do yourself.
Remove the slide from the frame.
Insert an empty cartridge under the extractor and shake the slide.
At this point you should only have a slide in your hand and not an assembled firearm.
No matter how firmly you shake the slide you should not be able to shake the case out.
If this is the case then insert a loaded round and shake. The cartridge should fall out with a firm shake otherwise there is too much tension on the extractor.
If the empty case falls out or doesn't even hold try adjusting the extractor for a little more tension.
This cured the problem on my Springfield.
An oversized firing pin stop will cure the extractor clocking but isn't always necessary to cure the problem and requires hand fitting which you may or may not want to do yourself.
Snobal
Member
thump_rrr -
Don't know if you were responding to me....
....but I tried what you suggested.
One at a time, I tried three different sized, belled, primed Federal cases with no powder nor bullet and had to shake hard for a few seconds to eventually get each one them to shake loose.
Three cases with bullets and powder were easy to shake out if the slide was upside down (they easily fell out of the ejection port), but it took a couple of shakes to get them to fall out if the slide was right-side up (they were more difficult to shake out toward the magazine-side of the slide).
Per other posts, it appears to me that my extractor is adjusted fairly close to normal specifications.
By the way, the new recoil spring that I ordered came this afternoon and I just installed it. It is "stock" weight but feels much heavier than the original spring after over 2000 rounds. I'll do an ops test in the morning.
Thanks again for the help and suggestions.
JMHO - YRMV
Don't know if you were responding to me....
....but I tried what you suggested.
One at a time, I tried three different sized, belled, primed Federal cases with no powder nor bullet and had to shake hard for a few seconds to eventually get each one them to shake loose.
Three cases with bullets and powder were easy to shake out if the slide was upside down (they easily fell out of the ejection port), but it took a couple of shakes to get them to fall out if the slide was right-side up (they were more difficult to shake out toward the magazine-side of the slide).
Per other posts, it appears to me that my extractor is adjusted fairly close to normal specifications.
By the way, the new recoil spring that I ordered came this afternoon and I just installed it. It is "stock" weight but feels much heavier than the original spring after over 2000 rounds. I'll do an ops test in the morning.
Thanks again for the help and suggestions.
JMHO - YRMV
I also checked my extractor tonight, it was slightly loose so I tightened it just a tad. The FPS is pretty sloppy so I'll order a new one in the morning after more research on fitting it. Today I also received a 16lb recoil spring. It is probably 1 1/2" longer than the stock spring and seems much heavier. I'll see how these changes work this weekend and again when I get the new FPS installed. Thanks guys...
thump_rrr
Member
It sounds like the extractor is a little loose.
I'd tighten it a little and see if this improves things.
You can search the net to find how to do this.
It literally takes 5 minutes to do.
Snobal
Member
thump rrr and 1911Tuner -
Thank You!
The new stock spring was about 1" longer than the old spring. Now my "old" RO (the one I'm shooting at Bullseye Matches) feels like my new RO (my "backup gun). It was time to change the recoil spring. However, it did not fix the problem.
I installed the new spring last night and fired 30 rounds this am. One case hung up on the magazine, one fell on the bench, and one dropped at my feet.
After bending the extractor per internet directions (I used pliers and wrapped the extractor in heavy leather), my first try was too tight. I got out my new RO and compared it to the RO I'm using for Bullseye matches and bent the extractor to hold loaded cases as tightly in the old RO as the New RO holds them.
This pm, I fired 30 more rounds of 200 grain, cast, RCBS 45-201-SWC with 3.8 grains of Bullseye and all 30 rounds stacked in a neat pile centered about 5' to my right and behind the firing line.
All 30 cases were recovered with no dings or dents.
Big Grin!
Thanks again!
JMHO - YRMV
Thank You!
The new stock spring was about 1" longer than the old spring. Now my "old" RO (the one I'm shooting at Bullseye Matches) feels like my new RO (my "backup gun). It was time to change the recoil spring. However, it did not fix the problem.
I installed the new spring last night and fired 30 rounds this am. One case hung up on the magazine, one fell on the bench, and one dropped at my feet.
After bending the extractor per internet directions (I used pliers and wrapped the extractor in heavy leather), my first try was too tight. I got out my new RO and compared it to the RO I'm using for Bullseye matches and bent the extractor to hold loaded cases as tightly in the old RO as the New RO holds them.
This pm, I fired 30 more rounds of 200 grain, cast, RCBS 45-201-SWC with 3.8 grains of Bullseye and all 30 rounds stacked in a neat pile centered about 5' to my right and behind the firing line.
All 30 cases were recovered with no dings or dents.
Big Grin!
Thanks again!
JMHO - YRMV
UPDATE....
Fitted a new EGW FPS, with a small radius as 1911Tuner recommends, ditched the Springfield ILS MSH for an Ed Brown with a new 23lb spring to go with the 16lb recoil spring and snugged up the extractor just a tad. The old FPS was .466 wide and .096 thick as compared to the new fitted FPS at .479 and .099, IIRC, so the old one was a little sloppy.
I already loved the gun, except for the recent issues, but now I REALLY love the gun. I suppose the recoil is less, it never was an issue before so I'd have to shoot it back to back to compare, but the muzzle rise is much reduced and repeat shots are much faster...good luck finding another mod that makes this much difference for under $100 total...
However... My issue with the crushed cases is much better, but not completely cured. Out of 75rds (25 shot 1 at a time) of my previous load, 5gn Bullseye and 200gn LSWC, I had 3 crushed cases, all 3 ejected without being stuck in the magazine lips. This time it didn't mater which magazine I used. I also shot 50rds of factory Federal (25 shot 1 at a time) and I did notice similar damage to 1 of those cases.
So far I think the FPS cured the clocking issue, but the gun still isn't crazy about lighter loads. I wonder if I should replace the extractor next? 1911Tuner?
FYI, I read a ton of info that 1911Tuner has posted on m1911 forums, amazing....
Fitted a new EGW FPS, with a small radius as 1911Tuner recommends, ditched the Springfield ILS MSH for an Ed Brown with a new 23lb spring to go with the 16lb recoil spring and snugged up the extractor just a tad. The old FPS was .466 wide and .096 thick as compared to the new fitted FPS at .479 and .099, IIRC, so the old one was a little sloppy.
I already loved the gun, except for the recent issues, but now I REALLY love the gun. I suppose the recoil is less, it never was an issue before so I'd have to shoot it back to back to compare, but the muzzle rise is much reduced and repeat shots are much faster...good luck finding another mod that makes this much difference for under $100 total...
However... My issue with the crushed cases is much better, but not completely cured. Out of 75rds (25 shot 1 at a time) of my previous load, 5gn Bullseye and 200gn LSWC, I had 3 crushed cases, all 3 ejected without being stuck in the magazine lips. This time it didn't mater which magazine I used. I also shot 50rds of factory Federal (25 shot 1 at a time) and I did notice similar damage to 1 of those cases.
So far I think the FPS cured the clocking issue, but the gun still isn't crazy about lighter loads. I wonder if I should replace the extractor next? 1911Tuner?
FYI, I read a ton of info that 1911Tuner has posted on m1911 forums, amazing....
1911Tuner, this is the exact same crimp I get in my brass
I asked you about it a ways back, but iirc, I never had pictures....
Same situation only my Springfield MilSpec only does it with milsurp 45 ammo. All the different handloads I regularly use do not cause the problem....It isnt the last round of a mag, mine will randomly crimp sometimes 3-4 out of a mag.
All eject fine and cycle the next round but they look like they get crammed into the ejection port causing serious case damage.....
To me the odd part is it only happens with milsurp hardball....not my cast ball or either of the wadcutters I use.
So far my fix has been to pack up the rest of the milsurp and only shoot handloads.....Factory SuperMatch and Targetmaster wadcutters function perfectly also, I have never shot factory hardball out of it so I dont know on that.
I asked you about it a ways back, but iirc, I never had pictures....
Same situation only my Springfield MilSpec only does it with milsurp 45 ammo. All the different handloads I regularly use do not cause the problem....It isnt the last round of a mag, mine will randomly crimp sometimes 3-4 out of a mag.
All eject fine and cycle the next round but they look like they get crammed into the ejection port causing serious case damage.....
To me the odd part is it only happens with milsurp hardball....not my cast ball or either of the wadcutters I use.
So far my fix has been to pack up the rest of the milsurp and only shoot handloads.....Factory SuperMatch and Targetmaster wadcutters function perfectly also, I have never shot factory hardball out of it so I dont know on that.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
If the extractor has stopped clocking and you've still got ejection issues with light loads...either bump up your powder charge or drop to a 14-pound recoil spring.
FWIW...For some of my ammo, I use 4.0 grains Bullseye with the RCBS 201...always a 14 pound recoil spring/23 pound mainspring and the small radius stop...and my pistols eject fine. Don't know what difference 2/10ths of a grain could make. *shrug*
Also FWIW...The original recoil spring that Browning and Colt's Dream Team settled on was never 16 pounds. At full slide travel...as installed in the gun...it averaged about 13.5 pounds.
FWIW...For some of my ammo, I use 4.0 grains Bullseye with the RCBS 201...always a 14 pound recoil spring/23 pound mainspring and the small radius stop...and my pistols eject fine. Don't know what difference 2/10ths of a grain could make. *shrug*
Also FWIW...The original recoil spring that Browning and Colt's Dream Team settled on was never 16 pounds. At full slide travel...as installed in the gun...it averaged about 13.5 pounds.
Snobal
Member
Second trip to the range since the last post.
120 rounds with RCBS 201 and 3.8 grains of Bullseye, 119 of 120 into a nice pile a few feet to my right, and behind the firing line.
One round of 120 bounced off the baffles between the firing stations during a match and somehow fell in front of the firing line.
All 120 rounds with no damage to the case mouths.
I'll put another 1,000 rounds through it with this new stock recoil spring and see what happens.
Big grin!
Thanks again for the tip on adjusting the extractor!
JMHO - YRMV
120 rounds with RCBS 201 and 3.8 grains of Bullseye, 119 of 120 into a nice pile a few feet to my right, and behind the firing line.
One round of 120 bounced off the baffles between the firing stations during a match and somehow fell in front of the firing line.
All 120 rounds with no damage to the case mouths.
I'll put another 1,000 rounds through it with this new stock recoil spring and see what happens.
Big grin!
Thanks again for the tip on adjusting the extractor!
JMHO - YRMV
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