New AR; Colt vs Rock River vs S&W

I owned a S&W and sold it to buy a Noveske. The Smith was a very good rifle, never had a problem with it, but I sold because I wanted the best possible rifle, my "one gun" I could trust implicitly.

Research the TDP that defines how military M4s are built. Some elements of the TDP, such as barrel steel composition, chamber dimensions, inspection of the bolt, staking of gas keys, and more, directly affect reliability. Colt is objectively better than RRA on the points I mentioned above. Some people are willing to roll the dice to save a couple hundred bucks. I think that's a stupid state of mind for a "bump in the night" gun.

You want this rifle for self defense? Then spend the extra and buy the Colt. You'll never wonder "what if." If you have the coin, there's literally no reason to buy less than top-tier quality.

my 6920 has been great to me but all 3 companies make good products.
my thoughts when i bought the 6920 is i will pay a little more to get it but it will sell for more used

It's amazing how many people will say, "oh, company X has quality control issues". How does anyone who doesn't actually work for a particular company know whether or not it has "QC issues"? Really, each company is different. Colt just makes a good AR. But remember that it's also staffed by men who were former high echelon military brass who have, I presume, personal contacts within the military. RR makes a great AR. S&W, from what I read, give great bang for the buck. Each company has a great rep. I'm sure they all do their best to make a solid AR, which means they have good "QC". So unless you actually work for one of these companies, it's impossible to accurately comment on QC.

Buy what you can afford.

It's amazing how many people will say, "oh, company X has quality control issues". How does anyone who doesn't actually work for a particular company know whether or not it has "QC issues"?

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Well if a lot of guns hit the market with issues then one could know. I'd agree that accurately gauging is a bit of an issue. The issue with basing it on problem guns that show up in the market is of course seeing or knowing reliably of a large enough number of guns to know for sure. I feel safe saying kel tec, for example has QC issues. I base this on seeing a large number of guns that have issues, owning KTs that had issues, and seeing a seemingly disproportionate number of reports (heck there is even a forum run by one of the biggest fan boys and apologist I've encountered that has sections dedicated to fixing common problems).

As to ARs I tend to listen to guys who see hundreds of thousands of rounds shot every year, and get to see hundreds of different guns used hard every year. I respect the opinions of certain trainers because they get to see so many guns used and so many rounds fired. They also see in circumstances that mimic how I intend to use my guns. Those guys will tell you certain brands do in fact tend to fair better.

Very Happy With S&W

I'm not a big AR fan. I prefer my bolt action hunting rifles, but I decided last winter that an AR would be a good thing to own for a number of reasons. I decided on a SW M&P15, partly because I had really good experience with a 686 a few years ago (factory trigger was much better than a friend's Colt from their custom shop, gun never once "hiccuped," etc.). I also in the course of business spent 3 weeks staying in the same hotel as an S&W Design Engineer. As an old metalworking manufacturing guy, I liked what I heard from him about his work environment and the things he was doing about quality working with a new supplier.

SO I bought a new S&W M&P15 flattop, with the MagPul BUS and about $60 off MSRP. At first, the trigger was just a little bit 'gritty,' but it smoothed right out after about 150rds. The rifle is tight, finish is really good, it's moa accurate, easy to take down, and a heckuva lot of fun to shoot. It is also 100% reliable to date. I bought it in 5.56 chambering, with 1:8 twist to stabilize heavier rounds.

I expect my next buy will be an MP40. My engineer friend told me his has been used for training - he was about to go to NC to train troopers -and had over 800,000 trouble-free rounds thru it. That beats the Heck out of any of the 5 Colt 45ACP's I have owned! Attitude begets quality, and nothing speaks louder for me than talking to an Engineer who designs, loves, and shoots the product his company makes.

You should look at a few more companies. Colt would be my pick of what you listed. I would go with Bravo Company or Palmetto State Armory though. You could spend $1200, but you will get the rifle you want and some training ammo to go with it.

I would pick the Colt.

My engineer friend told me his has been used for training - he was about to go to NC to train troopers -and had over 800,000 trouble-free rounds thru it.

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What parts were replaced in the course of those 800K rounds? I have a hard time believing 800K through any AR without any issues. AR bolts, even good ones tend to not last that long. I wouldn't expect an AR bolt to last 100K let alone 8 times that. I suppose one might get there with a fair amount of preventive maintenance including part replacements.

Kachok said:

I intend to use it for yote/hog/varmint extermination, and home defense, no I don't live in the suburbs, so over penetration is not an issue.
My main qualifications are light/handy, accurate, reliable and a GOOD trigger, After years of playing with Savage and Tikka triggers I am spoiled rotten and while I realize that no factory AR comes with a Tikka good trigger, I don't want some gritty as sandpaper, creepy as a snake, 8lbs hack job either.
Flip up iron sights and tactical rail are a plus, I think I will go flat top because I do want a low power flip down scope

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Sounds to me you could do what i did and be quite satisfied. I got the smith and Wesson cuz the price was so low from a maker that's been at it as long as the other guys ( a fact I didn't know until this purchase ). I put my savings towards a timney trigger and haven't had any regrets or failures for 3000 rounds of cheap ammo. I shoot hogs regularly.

Who buys an AR thinking of re-selling it? That to me just sounds plain un-smart. Whatever increase in resale value you get buy purchasing a colt over these other brands is negligible, if any. If that's your reasoning, then get what you can afford and avoid any forced resale later. You won't have regrets with the cheaper smith and wesoon.

Who buys an AR thinking of re-selling it? That to me just sounds plain un-smart.

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It is a minor component to nearly every purchase I make and not just limited to firearms ....Except for maybe the beater Taurus 82 I bought just to see if I could save it. I turned it into a trainer for my wife and daughter so there was a bit of theoretical payback there.

I don't see what is wrong with including resale in the equation. Sooner or later I or my estate will sell or hand down everything I own. If I make it to retirement and we have continued on the current path I bet my guns and ammo are going to do better than my 401K.

Back on topic, Colt for me, you buy and shoot whatever you like and we'll all be happy.

S&W M&P 15 Mid MOE

If you can find one, I'd go with the newish S&W Mid-length MOE. 1/8 twist barrel 5R rifling, mid length gas system, covered in magpul gear. I saw one of gunsamerica for $1100.

A man who kills varmints, punches holes in all sorts of things and figures the AR is a go-to gun for HD can purchase just about anything and never see a problem. 1/7 1/8 1/9 and what type of barrel would be my first consideration depending on what type of varmints to be popped.

A 24" match barreled super scoped momo is not a 14.5 down and dirty carbine. Both are great for what they do but ( in-truth there is some overlap in mission capabilities )...different animals; kinda like you would not take a cat to a dog fight even though in their own domain they are both good to go.

So, get a good accurate barrel and one that benefits and appeals to your mission parameters. Anything can be changed on an AR is short order and a few bucks if it offends you. Guys that say "Buy Colt" have their reasons but there are many choices out there and most will get the job done for you with no problems.

If you have a range where guys shoot something you are considering purchasing or better yet a range that can rent a few to shoot then one will whisper " buy me buy me".

Have been lucky to own several different manufactured ARs in a few different calibers; they have all worked for me so IMO get the one that has the features you want at the price point that your life style is comfortable with and go shoot.

musicman10_1 said:

Of the 3 you are looking at I would purchase in the following order:
Colt
S&W
Rock River

I don't think that you will go wrong with whatever choice that you make among these 3 manufacturers. Good luck and enjoy the quest.

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+1 ...

The gun referred to in the last part of the comment is an MP40 (.40 S&W pistol). This was not meant as a case on the M&P15, just a remark about Smith's commitment to good design and reliability.

I am more than pleased with my Daniel Defense M4V7 which ran me $1300. I have a $700 PSA Carbine on the way. All that I have read about them has been very positive.