Any ND with a revolver

I had one with a Ruger Vaquero. I unloaded it to do some dry firing (so I thought) and must have missed a round. It went click, click, click, BANG! and I then had a nice hole in the wall...

jmr40 said:

Most people don't understand the difference between a ND and AD. Virtually all of the ND's described on the internet are AD's. A true ND is extremely rare with any type of gun and the shooter almost always ends up in jail.

For it to rise to the level of negligence the shooter has to know he is doing something dangerous and still do it anyway. That type of thing is going to be just as common with any type of gun.

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It's a matter of semantics. You are technically correct that the term "accidental" simply means that the discharge was unintended, and therefore most unintended discharges are indeed accidental, but since the vast majority of such instances are caused by flagrant carelessness, the gun community has collectively chosen to elevate such instances to "negligent," as in the user was not being nearly careful enough. The point is to distinguish between such discharges and others that are outside of our control, such as those resulting from mechanical failure, and to indicate blame as an admonishment for all of us to be careful. I think that this is a proper use of the term "negligent." Your use of the term is another level up to criminal negligence or mischief--it is also valid, but that's not how most of the rest of us are using the term, which is to describe the most common (by far) class of avoidable unintended discharge.

There are many ways in which the full spectrum of unintended (and also inappropriate) discharges could be categorized, if anybody would care to make a comprehensive list, but ND for carelessness and AD for purely accidental generally suffice, it's easy to remember, and it's what we've become accustomed to using these days.

My sister in law almost shot herself in the head trying to cock a shrouded hammer on a double action snub nose, the spring was too strong for her, she had her finger on the trigger and was very inexperienced. As she was struggling to cock it, she rotated it almost straight up, her thumb slipped and it went off, the shot went about 6 inches in front of her nose.

gaston_45 said:

I really don't understand the miss belief that revolvers are safer. The only difference between a revolver and double action/striker fired pistols is a revolving cylinder on one of them.

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NDs can certainly happen for many of the same reasons with both. Then there are seemingly fairly common instances of:
1) Removing the magazine from a semiauto and neglecting to check the chamber.
2) Clearing the chamber without removing the magazine and then releasing the slide (often followed by #1).
3) Pulling the trigger to disassemble (perfectly safe if you did everything right, but also makes NDs more likely if you did not).
4) Pulling the trigger to decock even when there is no need to--I see this bad habit all the time, even with experienced, expert shooters (probably picked it up from competitions, ironically because of rules that were originally intended for safety with non-striker-fired handguns).

Combinations of these and other actions have led to numerous NDs. For instance, the infamous ND that a DEA agent committed in a classroom full of children was apparently a combination of #2 and #4 (plus not pointing the gun in an entirely safe direction). With revolvers, you may forget to clear the weapon, of course, but if you do remember then you're less likely to fail because all of the chambers are visible at once.

I had an ND a few years ago with my S&W 13 and killed my TV. there are pics here on THR somewhere.

In elementary school, I rode the bus with a girl who was in junior high or high school (been so long I don't remember) who was not on the bus for several weeks. When she finally returned, she was on crutches. When the bus driver asked her what happened, she said her older brother accidentally shot her with a .44 magnum. It went through one leg and into the other.

At the time, I didn't know enough about guns to ask more about the circumstances - and I probably wouldn't remember it all anyway - but I'm pretty sure that qualifies as an ND.

He didn't ask about ADs.
He asked about NDs.
It seems as if you know the difference...so why muddy the waters intentionally?

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"It's a negligent discharge, not an accidental discharge" is one of the most wasteful argument to be developed that served no one good.

The term "accident" does not mean there is no negligence involved.

Most plane crashes and car crashes are negligence related, but it is still called accident, and no one get all fired up about it.

Why should we as gun owners do it to us then? To make anti-gun nuts happy?

There is no benefit what so ever to it. It is not constructive. It helps no one. Someone crashes a car. No one goes, "Oh my God, a negligent crash. He/She should be branded and never be allowed to own a car again. He/She is a stupid retard. How can he/she ever even do somthing that stupid?" However, a lot of people in gun circles do just that. It does not promote safety. It only increases stigma which only hinders acknowledgement of wrong practices and increases denial. The attitude actually hinders promotion of safety.

No matter what garbage jargon we call it, if someone screwed up, they screwed up, accident or not. However, it does not change the fact that it was not intentional which makes it an accident. What good does it serve to change the term to more accusational one?

Gun safety is not promoted by "Oh my God, one **** up and I will be branded" increased stigma.

I refuse to use the term ND here exactly for that reason.

I honestly think whoever came up with this "It's an ND!" crap did more damage to gun safety than any good.

Hi, Orionengr,

You wrote, "He didn't ask about ADs.
He asked about NDs.
It seems as if you know the difference...so why muddy the waters intentionally?"

OK, I'll muddy the waters. Just what is the difference? Cases in which a gun fired with no human agency involved are pretty rare (though not unknown on guns like the Dreyse). Other than that, just when is an accident not due to some kind of negligence? Is dropping a gun an accident or negligence? Is forgetting a gun is loaded negligence or an accident?

It seems that some folks see a really bright line, but I confess I don't, and basically consider them much the same thing.

Jim

Many cases of accidental discharge involve "I thought it was unloaded." so 10~15lb long DA pull does not matter one bit.

Negligent Discharges don't occur...

...if we follow Colonel Cooper's four safety rules:

I. ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
II. NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
III. KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
IV. BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

Most unintentional shootings of people require violation of two or more.

My ND was a DA S&W 13. I thought that I dumped the round in to my hand and then dropped them into a can next to me on the desk. 2 mistakes already I failed to check the whole cylinder while it was open and I failed to count the cartridges that I dumped into my hand before I dropped them into the can. I had quickly closed the cylinder and raised the gun to dry fire at the o's and 0's during a commercial that was coming. I raised my gun to dry fire at the network insignia in the bottom right corner and pulled the trigger and boomboom, the gun went off and the TV imploded.
I found the picture on TFL