S&w model 10-5 vs. Ruger Security Six

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Well, "dishonest" is a thread killer, isn't it. Informed opinions are now disingenuous, it would seem. The language is more transparent than some might assume.

Love me, love my gun. Never tell someone their baby is ugly.
 
What do you mean by "certified" S&W's website list the model 10 as +P rated? Other than the lock what difference is there in the different ages of model 10s that would make the OPs different in +p rating than the model below?

I think it is safe to say the model 10 is + p "certified" when S&W says it is ok

S&W +P rated guns have it stamped on the barrel. Otherwise you have to ask, possibly off-the-record, since it is inevitably an insurance issue.

The current model 10 is represented as a reissue (Classic) and should not be assumed to be identical to older guns. The extensive field experience with the 10 could have caused upgrades. Do we know?
 
It's not very hard to do a Little research on the subject of using +P ammo in a S&W K frame. If one looks at a owners manual it clearly states on page 11 that any model marked gun is safe for +P ammunition or not to use it in firearms that lack a model number designation. So that right there certifies the Model 10 safe for use with +P ammo:rolleyes: Not to mention that +P ammo was being used for years before +P was being roll marked on the side of barrels with no ill effects to the guns:rolleyes:
 
rswartsell (yes, I AM still tracking this thread and, my opinion is that I am 100% CERTAIN that I am not going to say wether it should shoot +p or not), that was actually a very useful response.

I was finding a range of prices from 300-500, so your post confirms that this is a reasonable range. A big range, but at least a place to start.

Thanks!
 
Well, "dishonest" is a thread killer, isn't it. Informed opinions are now disingenuous, it would seem. The language is more transparent than some might assume.

Love me, love my gun. Never tell someone their baby is ugly.

What if the kid is really ugly?
 
I thought I had read a post by Old Fuff or dfariswheel that said that 20,000 psi was the original SAAMI standard for .38 special. Then SAAMI lowered it to 17,000 psi around 1974. Then SAAMI brought back the old 20,000 psi standard but relabeled it as +P. This contradicts Chuck Hawks, clearly. Perhaps I am dismembering. :) Any chance of dfariswheel or Old Fuff chiming in and clearing this up?
 
An impressive article on ".38 Special" on Wikipedia.

"The higher-pressure .38 +P loads at 20,000 PSI offer about 20% more muzzle energy than standard-pressure loads"<>

"It should be noted these loads are generally not recommend (sic) for older revolvers or ones not specifically "+P" rated."

+P loads were referred to originally as "the FBI load".

Not saying other views are wrong, but I think conservative approaches to a gun's capabilities are intelligent, certainly as a starting position or when in doubt..
 
The bottom line is even though I am approaching a rather "experienced" age, I wasn't around in the 20's-30's-40's, not many shooters used chronographs or other technical marvels of the like back then, so I could not say what they loaded standard .38 spl. to in that era. I have heard the accounts attributed to Old Fuff and dfarriswheel many times and my respect for those two wise men is immense. I believe they are right FAR more often than they are wrong. I have also heard Mr. Hawks version and I cannot contest or verify either account with any authority. Perhaps if I saw something like a Lyman's loading manual of the era before +P that would constitute something like solid impartial evidence, and it would not change my current practices one whit. More of an intellectual curiosity.

I view it in the applications that I am willing to employ as a question of accelerated wear. Assuming a good Smith or similar quality revolver is good for several lifetimes of normal use at SAAMI standard pressure (a good assumption with reasonable care I think),
considerable use of +P in something like a Mod 10 might remove one lifetime. A matter of complete indifference to me.

I do for revolvers like the D Frame Colt DS agree that +P use should be limited (Colt suggests returning to the factory for inspection and possible repair every 3,000 rounds of +P) and for those that the manufacturer or age/condition dictates, none at all.

For the Mod 10 every shot results in some degree of wear, +P more wear than standard. Lots of revolvers shrug that off as a practical matter, the Mod 10 included by my observation.

P.S. Undoubtedly the most significant advancement that Smith made in producing revolvers that withstand higher pressures without catastrophic failure (bursting cylinders) was the introduction of heat treated cylinders. That occurred about 1921.
 
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Further disclosure;

I own a S&W Model of 1905 M&P Target manufactured in 1910. It has never seen anything but 148 gr. target wadcutters from me and is now at least semi-retired. I haven't shot it at all recently and may never again.

I own a Mod of 1905 M&P Service configuration circa 1924 that only sees the wadcutters or standard pressure LSWHP (this is what I know as the FBI load). No +P. Would it stand up to a cylinder full? I believe so, in extremis. But why put up with the accelerated wear when it could indeed be significant?

+P in my late '70s Mod 10? No problems at all.
 
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