1911 feed problem

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I know this has been discussed millions of times but I still need a bit of help.
Gun: sig saur 1911 scorpion. Recently purchased from a friend of my fathers that I ran into at a gun show. Claimed 2-300 rounds through wich is believable considering lack of wear and the rate he goes through firearms. I have have put probably 400 through myself. He never noticed any issues but I get quite a few jams with the slide stopping just short of battery. The extractor is behind the case rim. When it does feed 80% of spent cases show chips on the rim. I have used Winchester white box, Remington green box, federal red box, reloads, and even a box of asym performance all with the same results. Mags: I have 2 kimpro wad cutter mags (8 round, parallel feed lips, non dimpled follower), 2 sig mags [checkmate?] (8 round, hybrid lips, dimpled follower), and one no name hi style 7 rounder with tapered lips and dimpled follower. All of which work fine in my fathers kimber. Usually jams half way through the mag and only once per mag. Sometimes runs flawlessly but still shows signs of push feeding on the brass. I have been experimenting with some snap caps and maybe 1-2 rounds per mag slide under the extractor. I have found other types of jams with the snap caps that I have not seen on the range. Will post pics. I plan on calling sig soon but would like to know a little more before I do. Don't want them to put in a heavy recoil spring and just cover it up, plus I have to know how things work and why the problems occur. Thank you and sorry for being so long winded.
 
Jam 3
First pic is most common and the only one I have seen at the range. Second is very rare and baffles me. Third can be pushes cleared with little effort. There is one more that has happened once but was not able to get a pic similar to the second but the rear of the cartridge is up past the breech face. Thanks again.
 

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I would normally expect that a bad magazine is letting the round loose ahead of the extractor. Getting a decent magazine would likely resolve that issue, but the Checkmates that the Sig ships with *are* decent mags. They should not be releasing early (like the KimPros do). When you experiment with the snap caps - which magazines are you using?

It may be that the (Sig external) extractor is malformed, and not allowing the extractor to snap over the rim when the magazine is releasing early, or not allowing the rim to slide under the hook easily.
 
I have been using all 5 mags with the same results. They all seem to run fine in other guns.
 
I have 6 sig's. 3 are 1911's, and have really had no problems with them. That being said, I have a SP2022 in .40 cal and it had a problem with jamming about 3/4" into recoil. Had to manually bang the slide to get it loose.:cuss:

Called Sig told them of the problem, they sent a RMA #, paid for shipping both ways and replaced the barrel and Slide! Had it back in less than a week! Awesome Customer Service! Pistol has been flawless since.:):)

I would send the pics and snap caps with the pistol, but do NOT send any un fired AMMO. Hey they are machines, sometimes they slip through the cracks.

But SIG will make it all good.

OR!!! try sending an email with the pics and see if they can talk you thru it before you have to send it in!

be safe
 
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Thanks for the reply. Calling sig is my intended course of action, and I have heard great things about there customer service. That being said, I am a mechanic and have need to know how things work and why problems occur. My current theory is improper breach face angle (worn tooling?) but as I am no expert on 1911s would love some input from the gurus here so I can have an intelligent conversation with the sig rep. Again thank you guys.
 
rbernie wrote,
Getting a decent magazine would likely resolve that issue, but the Checkmates that the Sig ships with *are* decent mags. They should not be releasing early (like the KimPros do).
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, both SIG and KimPro TacMags are CheckMate products.
 
So I called sig and they want to charge me $105 to get it working. Am wrong in thinking that this should be free since there are less than 1000 rounds through an unmodified pistol? Should I order a new tool steel extractor and fit it myself to see if that helps. 1/3 the price and priceless knowledge as to the function and fitting of the extractor. I am no stranger to a file and much prefer to do work myself if can.
 
So I called sig and they want to charge me $105 to get it working. Am wrong in thinking that this should be free since there are less than 1000 rounds through an unmodified pistol? Should I order a new tool steel extractor and fit it myself to see if that helps.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure that every Sig 1911 uses a proprietary external extractor design - you can't just fit a traditional 1911 extractor.

I've never had an issue calling Sig and telling them that their gun jams and doesn't work right, and having them immediately issue a shipping label for return under warranty.

For what it's worth, both SIG and KimPro TacMags are CheckMate products
Click to expand...
But the KimPro aren't the swoopy tapered-feed-lip designs that I favor. :)
 
Ah - very good. It's probably a worthwhile upgrade in general.

However, I'd still want to know why it sounds like the magazine is failing to control the top round (the failure described but not shown in the pics). The round should be controlled by the feed lips until the rim is firmly against the breech face and under control by the extractor hook. I guess that a malformed hook could bounce the round ahead of the extractor, but I'm still suspicious of the magazines....
 
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Look for burrs around the extractor slot and firing pin holes. Look for machine marks on the breech face, burrs on the breechface circumference. This could be a poorly shaped/polished feed ramp issue, or an incorrect length barrel link. It's possibly a bad mag catch, or even a hole in the frame (for mag catch) being misplaced. I've seen the latter on two Colts. If this is an Officer's or Defender length gun, the barrels tend to tilt forward and down during the feed stroke. It doesn't sound like a mag problem, since the mags run fine in other guns. I ASSUME that was with the same ammo? Is this with factory ammo? do rds from that SAME box of ammo work fine in other guns? Look for case mouths that are not properly taper crimped, or bulged cases from too much crimp. Recoil springs have been known to cause feeding problems and there are cases where the dimensions of frame, barrel and slide are such that you get "stem bind", with the rd being jammed partway into the chamber. If Glocks had anything like the problems that 1911'a have, they'd have gone out of biz long ago. I detest Glocks, actually, but they are 10x as likely to run well as 1911's, especially with jhp or swc ammo.
 
I completely agree with your suspicions but I am leaning towards the extractor shape since I started with the two factor mags then borrowed two mags from my father (he only has kimpro mags) and then purchased the gi style mag (no name but the only local fully tapered mag I could find. All seem to work well in his kimber (have not tested the gi in the kimber yet). So barring any other suggestions my only thought is to replace the extractor and hope the original is the culprit. Thank you all again this forum has been an amazing resource.
 
It is definitely removing material. I am currently researching proper extractor shape and will probably be reshaping mine in the near future
 
Keep in mind that 1911 parts almost always require some fitting. Any replacement extractor you acquire will require some tuning to get the tension right. I think the external extractor system is somewhat easier to tune, but just be aware. $105 to fix a 1911 is a pretty good deal. While I agree that it should be covered, I would seriously consider letting Sig fix it for you. If you order a new extractor and can't get it to run, you'll be out that $105 anyway. If you send it to Sig and pay the money and they don't fix it right, then they are on the hook to ultimately make it right.

Just my 2 cents, GL either way. 1911's are finicky beasts, but a joy to shoot.
 
I second the $105 sig repair option. You bought a USED gun - doesn't matter how many rounds were put through it, you are the second owner. Most warranty's are for the original owner. That said Sig and their employees most likely have intimate knowledge of their proprietary parts (extractor) and the experience to fix it and most likely anything else they see wrong while in their shop. $105 is a sweet deal.
 
I know theyll take care of it.

I getting ready to send in my first sig 1911, an all black Nitron beauty.

The lands in the barrel are starting to disappear from the back of the barrel, must be shooting more than I thought. :rolleyes:

Will replace the stock barrel with a match grade barrel, add a skeleton trigger while in there. I have a TTT that has the same barrel and trigger, it is amazingly accurate!

I am sure Sig will look over the rest of the gun simply because that is how good they take care of their owners and their guns.

be safe.
 
Forget bad magazines or what lube are you using questions. The round is getting choked by the extractor. There isn't nearly enough space for the round to go inbetween the extractor and breechface and feed reliably. A .45 case needs around .075 extractor to breechface gap to be a very reliable feeder. All the Sigs I've measured were .065. That's about the minimum required gap. I also think the extractor is placed relatively high on the slide compared to internal extractor placement.

This, coupled with Sig's overly tight chamber issues that run rampant through their entire product line, you have a recipe for failure.
 
Pic #3 shows this clearly. The round is jammed tight against the breech face and the extractor is jammed into the case rim.

Pic #2 shows the extractor so tight against the rim that it's tilting the round sideways, causing a misfeed.

Pic #1 shows the round (snap cap) releasing just a fraction of a second sooner from the mag and getting pushed ahead of the extractor. The best you can hope for at that point is to jump the rim and go into battery.

I'd send it off to Sig and hope they waive the fee after finding the problem is their extractor.
 
Get a grip, first realize that if the case is in front of the extractor is has nothing to do with the questionable Sig extractor design. The case can not reject the extractor, and jump in front of it. If the case is in front, then it came out of the mag ahead of the breech face and extractor and they met up at the chamber.

LOG
 
Logman, to whom are you speaking to?

I see 3 types of malfunctions in the pics and only one pic shows the malfunction you describe.
 
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