Hypothetical work situation

Atom Smasher said:

Say I work on a university campus in a state that permits concealed carry. The university has expressly prohibited carrying of weapons as well as stowing the weapon in a vehicle parked on university-owned property. Here's the problem: the city that houses the university is a somewhat dangerous metropolitan area. The local area around the university has especially high crime rates including muggings/carjackings.

I have no problem not carrying while at work, but not being able to store the weapon in my car means that I cannot have it while traveling to and from work, as I would have to store it at home. Is there a solution to this problem? I would much prefer to be able to access my weapon while in transit, but I guess if I have to leave it at home so be it.

Anyone experience a similar situation? Got a fix?

Click to expand...

What I would do is keep it in my car. You said carry on campuses is legal, so there are no laws broken there. I, personally, have no problem keeping a gun in MY car, even if I happen to park it in the publicly accessible/non-secure parking lot of my employer.

How would they know you had a gun in a lock box in your car that you retrieve as soon as you cross their property line?

You said carry on campuses is legal, so there are no laws broken there.

Click to expand...

Not exactly if it falls under trespassing laws. And while it may be legal, that won't protect from being fired.

Atom Smasher, check your state law. It very well may be that the university cannot disallow you from storage of the gun in your vehicle as the university is your employer.

I personally would keep it in my car and stay quiet about it. Most employers don't randomly search employees vehicles, so it should be fine. Out of sight, out of mind. Just make sure that you know you could lose your job over it.

I've had a similar work situation in the past. I just left the gun at home, I figure my car being broken into (and therefore losing my job when I report the theft) is a far more likely scenario than having to defend myself on my commute.

I'm in a similar situation. I work on federal property, which means I cannot carry to work (and it's much worse than a firing offense/trespassing issue for me, from my understanding). Although I'm not in a high crime area.

Do what you feel is right. Your options are pretty much:
1) Follow the rules and leave your gun at home. Only go straight to work and straight home without your gun; anything you want to do before/after work, go home first to get your gun or plan to go home after to drop the gun off.
2) Follow the rules and leave your gun at home, but don't worry about carrying around work time.
3) Break the parking rules and leave the gun in your car. Less likely to be made at work, but likely to have a break-in and theft.
4) Break the campus rules and carry. Only a problem if someone gives you a hug, you have some sort of gun-falls-out-of-the-holster-mishap, or if you need it for self defense (at which point being alive trumps being fired IMHO).
5) Find a new job somewhere they let you carry and this becomes a non-issue.

For my situation, I told myself I'd do 1, but really I'm in the boat of #2 right now. I'm working on #5 but it ain't always easy.

If carry on campus is legal do it BUT check into your states laws to find out if the college is overstepping their authority. I carried every day at college and I was not the only one. The school accepts money from the state for financial aid so most likely they are bound by state law.

I figure my car being broken into (and therefore losing my job when I report the theft)

Click to expand...

Question one: How do they find out what you report to the police?
Question two: If you have to use your firearm, isn't loosing your job the least of your problems?

I don’t see the problem. Just keep it locked up in your car. How in the world would anyone know?

I must be missing something.

As previously stated, check your state laws. Here in MS, state laws state that employers, public or private, can not prohibit storage of firearms in your vehicle. Public or private parking lots, doesn't matter, our laws say you can keep firearms in your vehicle. The only exception is for a gated and controlled access lot that is not open to general public access, basically fenced and guarded from what I understand.

Of course federal property is different.

vamo said:

I figure my car being broken into (and therefore losing my job when I report the theft) is a far more likely scenario than having to defend myself on my commute.

Click to expand...

Because there's no possible way to lock/secure a gun in a car?

Atom Smasher said:

Say I work on a university campus in a state that permits concealed carry. The university has expressly prohibited carrying of weapons as well as stowing the weapon in a vehicle parked on university-owned property. Here's the problem: the city that houses the university is a somewhat dangerous metropolitan area. The local area around the university has especially high crime rates including muggings/carjackings.

I have no problem not carrying while at work, but not being able to store the weapon in my car means that I cannot have it while traveling to and from work, as I would have to store it at home. Is there a solution to this problem? I would much prefer to be able to access my weapon while in transit, but I guess if I have to leave it at home so be it.

Anyone experience a similar situation? Got a fix?

Click to expand...

OK so here is what you do. You quietly run a poll to see how many University employees including all employees from faculty to custodians normally carry a firearm. Then a poll of how many students carry a firearm when off campus. Now if you get a good head count with those polls you respectfully submit your resignation and terminate your employment with the university.

Next you find a good secure building off campus, just off campus preferred. You rent or buy the building and open a "locker club" that has maybe 1,000 small gun lockers suitable for gun storage. You charge whatever, maybe $30 a month. Each member of your locker club can store or retrieve their gun 24/7/365. Each locker maybe the size of a small microwave oven. There is a Foot Locker shoe store so name your business Gun Locker. Soon you will be expanding to other universities that prohibit gun carry or storage on their property. You will soon become a millionaire and remember you heard it first here in THR.

Now seriously unless there is a state or local law that trumps university policy you are pretty much screwed.

Ron

"Gun Locker" sounds like a great place to pick up a firearm for free when it gets dark. Enterprising young fools will see it as a hunting ground. After all, youth doesn't assess risk well, and a free gun plus street cred getting it is one way to impress those in the 'hood.

Just pointing out one unintended consequence.

I had the same thought years ago when I heard about delivery lockboxes that attempted to conceal the identity and contents of things shipped to them. Decided that daily warrants and a Bomb Squad truck would likely color the nature of what I would be trying to market in the way of secure storage.

This hypothetical scenario is simply assigning a name to the owner of the property. In most cases, the exact same conditions exist for everyone working for somebody other than themself. It's a bit inaccurate to generalize, but all commercial property used for manufacture, storage, and sale of goods in America is posted off limits for guns. Even the store clerks working behind gun cabinets in Walmart and Academy can't carry. We aren't alone, I speculate the majority of us are subject to the exact same conditions. MOST of us are working on somebody else's property - their house, their rules. The majority of Americans can't carry at work, and company policy prohibits having guns on the property even if stored locked in the trunk of the car, in spite of state law.

It's the real disarming of America, at the corporate level.

If you do choose to store a firearm in the car, do so carefully, and be careful how you access it and where. Getting it out of the trunk, openly displaying it as you put it on, etc., is exactly how people get fired. Having it openly seen in a door panel pocket for other coworkers to view is another - had a customer just yesterday with a nice compact 1911 visible that way.

As for getting it stolen, it goes to what kind of car you drive and why thieves would be attracted to it. They steal nice stuff from nice cars, i.e., if you presume to flaunt a high dollar lifestyle in your choice of vehicle, expect them to steal from you. Leave an Iphone 5 laying on the seat next to a loaded magazine, or empty cartridge boxes thrown in the back seat, along with a high end stereo and a huge sub woofer visible, you are advertising. While we may defend the right of a 16 year old to dress like a hooker and walk in dangerous neighborhoods, claiming you can do the same with your car isn't realistic.

As said, muggings and carjacking are known to happen. Conduct yourself with a mind to minimizing it - survey who is getting mugged and what kind of car is jacked, and make appropriate decisions.

I second what Skribs above writes. He pretty well sums up your options.

Happens all the time for me. Im a welder by trade. And travel all over my state (maine) with a pistol in the truck. If i end up on a campus, i lock it in my glove box. And i dont say anything. Now if i were to work in a public school, i would not bring it at all.

Question one: How do they find out what you report to the police?
Question two: If you have to use your firearm, isn't loosing your job the least of your problems?

I don’t see the problem. Just keep it locked up in your car. How in the world would anyone know?

I must be missing something.

Click to expand...

Worked for a major corporation with a well staffed security team and cameras in the parking lot, so chances are they would be asked about any theft on the property.

Because there's no possible way to lock/secure a gun in a car?

Click to expand...

None of those methods are incredibly difficult to defeat, just saying when I think of all possible outcomes the most likely seems to be me losing a job because somebody stole from me. EDIT: The most likely thing to happen is nothing at all, but a theft is more likely than armed self defense pretty much anywhere.

I think we as a group dramatically overestimate the odds of an armed confrontation. I carry where I am able to, but will not risk my freedom or my job over it.

Because there's no possible way to lock/secure a gun in a car?

Click to expand...

Getting into the car in the first place is going to be harder than cutting the cable on a portable safe.

Tirod said:

"Gun Locker" sounds like a great place to pick up a firearm for free when it gets dark. Enterprising young fools will see it as a hunting ground.

Click to expand...

I doubt it.

Maybe if enterprising young fools targeted people going to and from gun stores, or gun stores themselves, at a higher rate than other locations, I could buy this.

Skribs said:

Getting into the car in the first place is going to be harder than cutting the cable on a portable safe.

Click to expand...

Now you have me interested.

What setup do you have where a special tool is needed to break into your car?

What did you treat the windows with that makes it so a rock or brick or other hard object cannot break them?

Newcatwalt

I second what Skribs above writes. He pretty well sums up your options.

Click to expand...

Ditto on that, and thanks, Skribs.

Had the same situation. At first, I left the gun secured in the car and walked to my card-entry-armed-guard building. This was probably the most dangerous part of my day because the walk was fairly... umm... "lonesome" except for the street trash.

Had two or three "incidents" on my way, about 1/4-3/8 of a mile, depending. This went on for a couple of years. Having a cane, holding it with two hands horizontally, and knowing how to jut your jaw aggressively and stare right at them helped in these situations.

After I started to park inside the new building (card-accessed parking lot in the basement) I just bit the bullet and left my personal protection arm home. Individual car search in the building was very unlikely, but legally possible, with heavy no-bullcrap penalties.

Yep, rarely stopped for groceries or cigs on the way home, but felt naked doing so when I did.

Sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do and hope for the best.

Terry, 230RN

Gun locked in car/truck.

Here are a few possible problems in this hypothetical situation.

Actually prior to my retirement last year I worked in a DoD & DoE facility. Read into that guns were prohibited and when even high ranking government officials visited a special clearance was issued for any body guards who would be carrying a firearm. All here nor there. The parking lots did have video surveillance. Firearms were prohibited on the grounds plain and simple.

OK, so on a daily basis I break the rules and leave my gun locked in my vehicle. My vehicle is broken into and the gun stolen. Now when I report the stolen property should I report the gun stolen? This is a simple yes or no question. If I report the gun stolen I face termination from a job that is paying a handsome salary and rest assured the workplace isn't starving for 60 year old burned out engineering types. What should I do?

I say screw the gun and just opt not to include the gun in stolen property. I bought it new a few years ago from my LGS. It was a legal transaction with the 4473 form filled out. No big deal. I am out my $900 and that's it.

Wait, six months later my gun turns up next to a corpse downtown Cleveland, Ohio. As the gun trace is run eventually I will hear a knock on the door. Oh, I am sorry, when my car / truck was broken into I forgot to mention that gun was stolen. Goodbye clearance, goodbye job

Ron

The "gun locker" I mentioned earlier was purely done in humor. Which is why I followed with:

Now seriously unless there is a state or local law that trumps university policy you are pretty much screwed.

Click to expand...

Back around '69 as a young Marine I went to school at NAS Millington, TN. Students were expected, when you got liberty, to wear the uniform of the day. There were at least a dozen "locker clubs" in the Millington / Memphis TN area where the young GI could store his "civies" and change clothes.

Ron

I understand that one (or some) states require that the building provide lockers for personal firearms if none are allowed in. I think I read this about Alabama?

I used to visit the nuclear trigger facility (Rocky Flats) on occasion (job hunting), and it was no big deal parking one's gun at the guardhouse. Clear the gun, hand it action-open to the guard (they did not want the ammunition), he writes out a receipt, you drive in, you do your biz, you come out, hand him the receipt, you get your gun, reload, and drive off.

Terry, 230RN

Reloadron said:

Gun locked in car/truck.

Here are a few possible problems in this hypothetical situation.

Actually prior to my retirement last year I worked in a DoD & DoE facility. Read into that guns were prohibited and when even high ranking government officials visited a special clearance was issued for any body guards who would be carrying a firearm. All here nor there. The parking lots did have video surveillance. Firearms were prohibited on the grounds plain and simple.

OK, so on a daily basis I break the rules and leave my gun locked in my vehicle. My vehicle is broken into and the gun stolen. Now when I report the stolen property should I report the gun stolen? This is a simple yes or no question. If I report the gun stolen I face termination from a job that is paying a handsome salary and rest assured the workplace isn't starving for 60 year old burned out engineering types. What should I do?

I say screw the gun and just opt not to include the gun in stolen property. I bought it new a few years ago from my LGS. It was a legal transaction with the 4473 form filled out. No big deal. I am out my $900 and that's it.

Wait, six months later my gun turns up next to a corpse downtown Cleveland, Ohio. As the gun trace is run eventually I will hear a knock on the door. Oh, I am sorry, when my car / truck was broken into I forgot to mention that gun was stolen. Goodbye clearance, goodbye job

Ron

Click to expand...

If you already decided to not report the gun as stolen when your car was broken into, I see no further transgression by stating that the gun was stolen from your off premises residence, or your car during a weekend. The Federal institution can't abridge your RTKB rights while not at work.

We had a similar situation with Utah State university. Per Utah law, since it is a state facility, carry may NOT be denied. The students and employees banned together and sued the university.

The university continued to enforce the ban until they were threatened with losing their state funding.


Is it a state university? If so, they are, most likely, not in alignment with the laws of your state and have just not been confronted. The university of Utah got away with it for a long time.

Why are you working?

I think that's an important question when considering these sorts of issues. Are you working for personal gratification? For fame and glory? For the health and wellbeing of your family? Depending on your answer, your best choices may be very different.

If you are working to provide for your family, you are sacrificing your personal happiness and very likely health (sitting around an office all day is not healthy, and it isn't nearly as fun as going for a nice hike) already. It may be that your best approach is to buy life insurance and leave the gun at home. Yes, the gun improves your chance of being able to directly provide for your family if you are attacked, but with insurance you can indirectly accomplish the same goal even if you die.

That doesn't (usually) work if you are working for personal rather than family reasons. If your reason for accepting this job is that it puts you where you need to be to have a chance of winning a Nobel prize or becoming independently wealthy, you need to weigh how much carrying a gun against rules will endanger that goal, vs. how much risk you have of being attacked and killed. Even then, it may be that you will see a better overall risk reduction from not sleeping with married partners or stealing the credit for discoveries made by your peers...or going out drinking after work.

There are some scenarios where the most rational choice is to carry against rules and deal with the consequences if/when they come up. There are also scenarios where your goal is best accomplished by accepting the risks involved in not being armed, and arranging your affairs so that even if you are killed your primary goal is still attained.

The reality is that in several decades of working I have lost more coworkers to the swivel chair (sedentary lifestyle endemic to engineering where you sit at a desk all day) than anything else. Smoking is second place. I have had coworkers hospitalized due to being jumped while bar hopping after work, but none has been murdered. The only lethal violence was self inflicted.

Choose your risks and take your chances.