Opinions wanted; .38 Super or 9x23 Winchester?

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MachIVshooter

MachIVshooter

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I'm going to build a ground-up custom, my own design, and I need to select a caliber and procure a barrel around which the rest of the gun will be built. This is not going to be finishing out a 1911 forging or similar; every part but the barrel, magazine and springs will be machined from billet. 7075-T6 for the frame, A-2 tool steel for the slide, everything else from d-2 tool steel and 4140 CrMo. It will be a single action, single column magazine, locked breech short recoil pistol. High probability that I'll be using a 1911 barrel & magazine just because of availability & cost, but the pistol itself is going to look a bit more like a TZ/Sarsilmaz.

I want to do something different enough from production guns to justify a project that will take at least 250-300 hours of machine work to complete, and part of that is going to be a chambering that I don't yet own.

I was initially thinking about 10mm Magnum, but I don't think I want to attempt that on my first full build, and certainly don't have the coin for that custom reamer at the moment. Also would want to do that with a steel frame, probably 17-4PH stainless. Tough as 7075-T6 is, I don't think it's appropriate for the frame of pistol chambered in such a high powered round.

So, the question is, if you were going to do a project like this, which of those chamberings would you go for?
 
The 9x23 is very, very good. Horrible marketing killed it, but it's worth pursuing. Winchester still offers two loads for it and
CorBon offers one. 9mm Largo also works.

None of the shortcomings of the .38 Super, save for availability. The Super isn't all that available, so that's saying something.

You could do two barrels, one for each. Add a third in 9x19 for a very versatile gun.

For full performance, the 9x23 wins.
 
I agree with Dave. The 9x23 Winchester is a great cartridge - powerful, flat shooting, accurate - it really should be more popular than it is. In fact, I recently had a build done on a .38 Super Colt 1911 and had the 'smith fit 9x23 and 9mm barrels as well. Great minds think alike, Dave.
 
Got both on a couple of platforms.

One major factor on the side of my 9x23 is that I can use .223 brass much more easily to build loads.

Neither the 9 nor the .38 is a "cut&load" scenario for .223 brass but the 9 is considerably simpler to build rounds for. For me anyhow.

One of my Colts is a factory 9x23 with the accompanying factory .38 super conversion so kinda - all things are equal with it but it nearly always gets shot as a 9x23.

Unfortunately, both the .38 and 9 have monstrous amounts of myth surrounding them, good and ill. You can shoot through tank armor, can't be made to reliably extract, flat to 200 feet, no way to reliably headspace, designed specifically to shoot through car doors, poor barrel selection, will kill a grizzly from fear alone....

Gotta sift through all that and build the gun you want and you'll enjoy a very different and rewarding level of shooting enjoyment.

One thing to remember from my experience, mags for neither of these cals is "plug&play". Lots of folks chase non existent problems in either cal for lack of consistent quality mags in their shooting bag.

Just as a great deal of car and bike builders start with tires and wheels before anything - and for good reason - you need to determine who's mags you will use and their availability early on in your build.
 
Realistically in a custom gun they are the same round. I have three guns chambered in 38 Super and they all work with 9x23 brass. Only real important thing is to make sure you have a fully supported barrel if you are going to run full power ammo.
 
Chambering for .38 ACP/Super involves breeching for a semi-rim cartridge, plus possible feeding problems caused by rimlock. I would go with the true rimless round.

Jim
 
9X23 is a tapered case cartridge (think long 9X19), .38 Super isn't.
THEORETICALLY the 9X23 will feed more reliably...
Practically speaking; I doubt it.
You can generate more horsepower with the 9X23, if that's a consideration.

My preference is the .38 Super.
You can shoot .38 Super Comp (rimless .38 Super) in the Super barrel--if it's set up right (extractor).
.38 Super Comp feeds from 10 rd. magazines VERY reliably, due to rimless design.
 
Why go to all this trouble when you can purchase any number of handguns in .357 Sig? The .357 Sig gives you .38 super ballistics in a smaller case and is easier to find in most places than .38 super ammo.
 
Why go to all this trouble when you can purchase any number of handguns in .357 Sig?
Click to expand...

If I wanted a bottleneck round, I'd go with 9x25 Dillon. I have narrowed it to these two choices, and I'm asking for opinions because it is a coin toss for me at this point. I'm quite familiar with all commercial pistol cartridges, including the .357 Sig, and ruled out all of them for various reasons. I'm just not open to other suggestions. Thanks, but no thanks.

As to why build from the ground up? Because I can, and because I enjoy machining parts.
 
One thing to remember from my experience, mags for neither of these cals is "plug&play".
Click to expand...

Wouldn't anything fit for 7.62x25 (also a good custom caliber :D) fit the Winny just fine? I don't know if the tapers are close enough for them to stack up a 30rnd PPS43 or CZ26 stick mag properly, but mags that'd fit a 1911 should be doable from the various Tokarev's that have been made over the years.

TCB
 
One thing to remember from my experience, mags for neither of these cals is "plug&play". Lots of folks chase non existent problems in either cal for lack of consistent quality mags in their shooting bag
Click to expand...
I haven't had any issues with either caliber in quality 1911 mags and the same mag will work with either .38 Super or 9x23.
 
I have numerous 1911s and my very favorite is a .38 Super. To take advantage of either cartridge, you really need to be a hand loader. I don't own the 9mm so can't relate any information on that one. I will say that I absolutely love the .38 Super. It can be loaded hot enough for most anything, components are generally available... well... most of the time.

As for magazines... no problems at all. Believe it or not, the Kimber factory mags have been superb for me. When I've bought mags, I've bought Chip McCormick's best 1911 mags. Very good quality and never a misfeed with any of them.

I just got back from the range a few minutes ago and ran 50 rounds through the .38 Super for the first time in a few months. It's a very rewarding caliber to hand load for.

You'll enjoy either one, I'm sure. Good luck with the choice!
 
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