Armalite's new pistol line: They want input!

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Grayrider

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Gang,

I know some of you will have already seen this at AR15.com, but Armalite has just announced that they will be importing the Sarsilmaz CZ pattern pistols into the United States this year. For those of you unfamiliar with these guns, Sarsilmaz makes reportedly high quality CZ-75 pattern pistols in Turkey. Here is the link to their English language web site:

http://www.sarsilmaz.com.tr/eng/main.htm


Using forged steel frames and slides, they produce a gun that met strenuous tests by the Turkish military resulting in its adoption as their service arm. Armalite has chosen this line to be its new pistol offering. I think this will be an exciting develop for American shooters in general, and for fans of CZ pattern pistols such as many of us here. I was given permission by Armalite to post their news announcement regarding this new line. More importantly, they asked if I would solicit input on the pistols from fans of CZ pattern guns. Of course I was more than happy to do that being a big fan myself. I passed along some suggestions, and if any of you have comments please post them here. I will gather up the information and relay it straight to the top. Armalite is very interested in producing a pistol that appeals to the CZ fans amongst us. They want to do this right the first time, and get the product to the shooter in the configuration the shooter wants. I think choosing the CZ platform was a brilliant move, as it is already quite well respected in the US market.

So having said that, here are the official news releases from Armalite:

"ArmaLite and Sarsilmaz Inc. Expand International Marketing Link

ArmaLite’s Mark Westrom and Sarsilmaz’ Mr.Aral Alis announced today that ArmaLite and Sarsilmaz are expanding their international trade relationship to include a high-grade line of handguns for the U.S. Market and planned license-production of ArmaLite rifles for the Turkish Armed Forces.

Sarsilmaz has served as ArmaLite’s exclusive link to NATO’S second largest Armed Force for several years. Strategically located close to key Middle East hotspots, Turkish forces are the NATO element closest to the problems in that region.

Sarsilmaz is reciprocating by naming ArmaLite their exclusive link to the American handgun market as well as offering a channel for a line of military and police shotguns.

The handgun effort is based on the standard sidearm of the Turkish Armed Forces, the Sarsilmaz-produced “Kilinc” (Sword) 9mm pistol. Finely made of classically forged and finely machined slides, barrels, and frames, the military version is upgraded to ArmaLite specifications to match the needs of the American market as the AR-24. They are high-capacity, double action pistols produced in full size and compact steel-framed models in calibers 9mm and .40S&W. A similar line of AR-25 pistols will be introduced with polymer frames for law enforcement and other customers requiring a lightweight handgun. A third model, the .45 caliber AR-26, is currently available only as a full-sized pistol."


The Sarsilmaz pistols are CZ pattern, but will feature improvements based on the requirements of the Turkish military. One example is that the firing pin is retained by a plate in the 1911 style, facilitating easy replacement and cleaning. Armalite will request additional modifications as needed, resulting in a pistol with exceptional fit and finish out of the box. The goal is to produce a pistol that is reliable, accurate, and has an excellent trigger without any need for smithing. Pricing will be kept aggressive. They definitely have the right attitude about this project.

So fellow CZ fans, what would you like to ask Armalite to incorporate into these pistols? What issues have you had with CZ pattern guns you would like them to remedy? I already mentioned the slide-stop issue that has affected such pistols in the past. Armalite wants your input, and I think that is a really good sign of things to come.

GR
 
Here are some pictures of the various models Sarsilmaz offers. I am not sure which will get to the United States, so I just picked some I thought were interesting.

The “light” model 9mm in hard chrome (light appears to be referring to weight reducing cuts):

white_chrome.jpg


Same gun in camouflage.

camo.jpg


The “Professional” model compensated pistol.

professional.jpg


Base model without the extra cuts.

white_chrome.jpg


OD Green polymer gun.

green_black.jpg


There are many more pictures on the Sarsilmaz site. Of course I would expect Armalite to modify the look of the guns a bit to suite their needs.

I would also hope for a polymer model to have an accessory rail…

GR
 
The yellow one would be great for a construction worker carry piece!

Not so much feedback on the guns but if they want the American market they may need to translate the specs from metric. I grew up in Europe and even I ahd to stop and think for a while - anyone who has never used metric to any great extent will be reaching for a calculator pretty quick.
 
A Tanfoglio clone competing with the parent gun and real deal CZs.
Whether they are actually improved over the TZ (Tanfoglio)
is yet to be seen.

As I've stated before. The Tanfoglios are great guns due to low price
and that they utilize the stoic CZ75 design that has proven to be both
reliable and durable in the extreme.

You really can't go wrong when you copy something so near perfect.

One might think that htis new line will detract from CZ sales.
In my expereince, the CZ & Tanfoglios compliment each other.

People who own TZs but want the REAL DEAL CZed go onto buying
them.

Those CZ owners wishing different calibers and configurations that
CZUB doesn't offer, tend to buy the TZ guns.

I presently own both but prefer the CZ over the TZ.
 
I completely agree. I don't think that CZ will have anything to worry about. In fact I think that the more pistols of this pattern the better. Look at the 1911 market. True it is a bit saturated, but on the other hand look at the range of options that presents the shooter, the tons of accessories, the extensive familiarity with the products that American shooters have, and the complete acceptance of the basic concept as sound. Any maker with a good reputation bringing a 1911 on the market has nothing to prove about the gun itself, just that they can make a good one. Kimber, Springfield, Colt, Smith & Wesson, CZ--all can carve their section of the pie. Shooters who try one will certainly become interested in the others.

If Armalite weighs in, we might see that the CZ pattern has a shot at becoming more wide spread if not as ubiquitous as the 1911. Of course those of us that love the platform will buy both brands. I personally have had no problem deciding how to spend my money between CZ and Tanfoglio. I buy both!

Keep the input coming. I will relay it to Armalite. They want to know what you like, and I think it is great that a company is asking what their customers want before the guns are even on the way.

:D

GR
 
I have to agree with the opinion on the clones adding to the overall quality of the market and boosting availability.

I like the way these weapons look. I know I like the overall quality of CZ and I know I like their feel. Armalite, in my opinion, couldn't have chosen a better platform.
I'm a big fan of Wheelguns, and I'd like to see Armalite do a wheelgun to compliment their pistols:rolleyes:, but CZ has proven to be a great choice for me and stands as the only pistol I've been able to trust.
If I had the money in my pocket and opportunity, I'd probably run out a buy the Bernardelli and Professional models immediately.

I like the white chrome finish too. Very nice looking and clean looking, but doesn't appear very reflective.

Calibers I'd like to see
5.7
357 sig
45 gap
calibers I'd buy
.357 sig
.45 auto
9mm (though I haven't had one yet...)

I'd also like to see production weapons come with better than okay guide rods (jackash), and ambidextrous controls.
 
I bet their customer service couldn't be worse than EAA, which IMHO really holds back the Witness guns.

--wally.
 
first, i thought the website was pretty unique - i actually liked it.

however... i had a difficult time figuring what the chamberings were, and it appears they are all 9mm? if that is the case, i won't buy any.

if these guns are readily available, chambered to 40, and come w/ a decent capacity (14+ in the mag, +1 in the pipe), my impulse-buy nature will have me buying these. but, if the mag cap is truncated, then it will be a no-go here...
 
First of all you must emulate the Springfield XD and do everything you can to hide the fact the gun comes from Turkey.

Sarsilmaz has served as ArmaLite’s exclusive link to NATO’S second largest Armed Force for several years. Strategically located close to key Middle East hotspots, Turkish forces are the NATO element closest to the problems in that region.
Was that some kind of vague insinuation that real operators in the sandbox favor Sarsilmaz pistols? pathetic, and Turkish nationalism, Kemalism has ???? on the Kurds and created more tension in Iraq (not to mention the armenian genocide the government denies). Turkey is not part of the coalition of the willing and historically it's inclusion in NATO was due to geographic advantage against the USSR. Turkey is the epicenter of suck.

pointers:
1. lie: "This gun is not from Turkey, Sarsilmaz? Speak english please, and Turkey ain't no country I ever heard of."
2. make it cheap, so damn cheap that nobody can ignore it because we've seen a lot of CZ clones, have no illusions about being able to put out a better product, you probably won't (see note 4).
3. do every goddawful thing you can to it in order to appeal to the low class buyer: Rails, Tacticool marketing, select models with extra bling as long as it's cheap bling. looking at some of the photos I think you've got that, btw why don't you give them a good cleaning before photographing them, they have some dirt on em.
4. if you really want to improve the basic CZ design that firing pin thing is not something people care about, do this one thing and you will have everyone's attention: give me a slide with more gripping area that I can rack in a hurry. It's one part of the CZ design that doesn't feel right.
 
I think that it will ultimately come down to the price of these new pistols. There are plenty of CZ clones on the market, will Armalite's pricing be able to compete?
I have read many threads about EAA's terrible customer service, but the pistols themselves seem to be have a good reputation.
 
love cz'z but

if I had to change anything it would be the safety. I would like it to be more like what they show on the black and green gun above or a cz SA. But I want it to stretch further back on the gun more like a 1911 or a taurus.

as it is... a great design.

I like the idea off being able to clean the firing pin area a little easier as long as it does not detract from the function of the gun.

otomik (edited to correct spelling)

The slides have plenty of gripping surface if you ask me(you didn't). I don't think I have ever had a slide slip out of my hand on any gun ever. Does this commonly happen to people? I have never heard anybody ever mention it except on the web. My ruger mkII has definetly less slide to grip than my cz and it does not seem to present a problem.

And about Turkey. I hope you don't own any russian, austrian, german or italian guns because... pssst....they used to vigorously kill EVERYBODY!
 
otomik said:
First of all you must emulate the Springfield XD and do everything you can to hide the fact the gun comes from Turkey.

That's actually a really solid point. "Made in Croatia" has even less of a ring to it, but they're still selling like hotcakes.

However, XD/HS2000 had to beat the $550 Glock on price. These Turkish dealies have to beat a $350 CZ, bit of a taller order there.


Was that some kind of vague insinuation that real operators in the sandbox favor Sarsilmaz pistols? pathetic, and Turkish nationalism, Kemalism has ???? on the Kurds and created more tension in Iraq (not to mention the armenian genocide the government denies). Turkey is not part of the coalition of the willing and historically it's inclusion in NATO was due to geographic advantage against the USSR. Turkey is the epicenter of suck.

So, are you Armenian, Greek, Cypriot, or Kurdish? Well, actually you had some pretty good points there, I really wouldn't have said anything if your last sentence hadn't been a bit pointed. Wonderful people, great chow, catchy music, but I confess that even I am not in a huge hurry to purchase a 9mm made in Turkey.

-MV
 
From what I've seen, Armalite is a stand-up company, and I wish them luck as they import these guns. I'd buy one if the price were right. I'm especially interested in the polymer compact model.

Some things I'd advise:
1. Customer service should be a huge priority. Lots of imports - GLOCKs, SIGs, HKs, etc. go through military torture tests, but the American shooter has found a way to break 'em all. Good customer service = strong following, especially since Armalite is new to the handgun business.
2. I'd drop the mentions of Turkey as well. Pull an XD, as it were. CZ-USA can get away with it, because, well, they are CZ-USA.
3. Get rid of the mag brake on the full-size models (though Sarsilmaz might have done that already). Everything 9mm should also be in .40 S&W.
4. Price. Keep it low, but not too low. If you price it the same as a CZ, all the CZ fans will just buy CZs. The base models could go for mid $300s, with the CCW models a bit higher. After they've been in the market for awhile, then you can start jacking up the price. If you can offer this gun at $300 new, I guarantee you lots of people will buy one just to try it out.
 
Kinda looks like a cross between the BHP and the CZ. If priced affordably, I'd try one. I doubt it'll challenge CZ's place in pistoldom, however.
 
MatthewVanitas said:
So, are you Armenian, Greek, Cypriot, or Kurdish? Well, actually you had some pretty good points there, I really wouldn't have said anything if your last sentence hadn't been a bit pointed. Wonderful people, great chow, catchy music, but I confess that even I am not in a huge hurry to purchase a 9mm made in Turkey.
Don't mind me, my ex left me for a turkish guy. No seriously, it was over the top, I knew I was being unkind but as their focus group I needed to get across the fact that few people have good associations with Turkey. I do believe that Kemalism carved up a Turkey only for Turks, in spite of the facts.
 
I agree with Mulliga on all his points, especially start out with LOWER pricing to get people initially hooked.

I would also add things I would like to see: Light rail model, Single Action Only Model with a contoured safety to fit the hand (a nice match for the beavertail).
 
so who thinks armalite had any contact with the Pink Pistols association to design that Pink framed one? :uhoh:
 
Gang,

I really, really appreciate all these wonderful comments. Positive and negative alike! They will all go to Armalite today along with some suggestions of my own. I will also pass along any questions if any of you have them. I must tell you that they really want to know what the customer wants/thinks about the guns. I am really amazed at the response I have gotten from Armalite and the determination they have expressed to make this new product line right from day one.

Keep the comments coming if you want and I will pass them along. Thanks again for the assist! What a great bunch of shooters we have here at THR.

GR
 
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