What manufacturers make pistols without MIM parts

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george burns

george burns

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Other than the High end like Wilson, do any guns come with no MIM parts, or is it just part of life nowadays. Of course you can buy an older gun, but let's see who currently makes a non MIM gun?
Not a debate about weather MIM parts are good or bad, just a question if anyone has an answer about Company's who don't use MIM parts. Colt? Perhaps some high end Springfield's?
By the way the FNH-FNS9mm is on sale for $499.00, with 3 mags and Night Sights, here,http://www.deguns.net/ProductDetail...guns.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=66927
 
I think one of the differences between guns like the Kahr CM-9 vs. the PM-9 is the use of MIM parts in the less expensive CM.
 
That's why I have a PM9, but in looking for a new full size gun, I would like to stay away from Kimbers and other mid to high end guns that are using MIM parts. I don't mind 1 or 2, like a slide release, but I prefer the trigger assemblies and barrel, "the main parts" to not be MIM. Is the Range Officer or "loaded" MIM, how about the H&K?
I was reading an article about the amount of MIM parts that Kimber uses in very important parts, like the sear, and it went on to show how the amount of wear, and failures is extreme because of this practice. And frankly I don't think that guns that run over a thousand dollars, should have MIM parts in them.
If we want cheap stuff It should be posted on the box or in the ad.
I prefer cast or Forged parts, on my guns, or at least tell me that they are not. Guns like Glocks don't put enough stress on individual parts for it to be a problem, but in the 1911 world, I feel that a safety or firing pin, hammer, sear, etc. should be a higher quality due to the stress put on it.
It went on to mention, how Kimbers rarely if ever are able to finish competition matches, which I also read in an article from Gunsite a few months ago. They never had anyone complete the course with a kimber. Up until then I was seriously looking towards several of their models for a carry, having carried Colt's and other 1911's in the past. Now I am leaning towards a Range Officer compact, due to the fact that they have little to no MIM parts from what I read in the same article.
 
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Was that article written by a seller of aftermarket parts?

Are those Kimbers not finishing because of MIM parts breakage? You would think a company would get tired of doing all that warranty work because of failed parts.

I would live to see the articles you reference. Color me skeptical that MIM parts are that big of a problem.
 
Dan Wesson-No MIM. Colt does use some MIM parts. BTW, I've owned several Kimbers. All reliable and no MIM parts ever broke or caused any issues at all......ymmv
 
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I don't know of any company making barrels by MIM, and I don't think it would work for that application. Many makers use MIM for hammers, triggers, and some other parts. Like other materials and manufacturing methods, designers pick the appropriate one for the job at hand. (Example: would you make a magazine by machining it out of a solid block of steel? Incredibly, it has been done - take a look at a Roth-Steyr if you get a chance.)

Jim
 
Jim K said:
I don't know of any company making barrels by MIM, and I don't think it would work for that application. Many makers use MIM for hammers, triggers, and some other parts. Like other materials and manufacturing methods, designers pick the appropriate one for the job at hand. (Example: would you make a magazine by machining it out of a solid block of steel? Incredibly, it has been done - take a look at a Roth-Steyr if you get a chance.)

Jim
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They wouldn't. With MIM you're limited to about 100 grams or less.
 
I'm hearing that S&W is using an MIM barrel in the Bodyguard, but haven't confirmed it myself.

As far as size limits, I thought that they made aircraft parts with MIM?

Larry
 
Lots of high end, high stress things like cutting heads are made with mim. But like most things it boils down to if the manufacturer knows what they're doing and if they give a damn
 
Metal Injection Molding Applications

Automotive Systems - Steering Columns (actuators, ignition lock components), Sun Roofs (stop cams), Seating Mechanisms, Solenoids, Fuel Injectors
Orthodontics – Brackets, Buccal Tubes
Medical and Dental Instruments – Endoscopic Surgical Instruments, Scalpel Handle
Firearm Components – Triggers, Sights, Safeties, Seer Blocks
Ordnance – Guidance Fins
Hardware and Lock Parts – Lock Cylinders, Bolts, and Sidebars
Computers and Electronics – Disk Drive Components
Electrical – Connectors, Switches
Click to expand...
Here is a list of common applications of MIM.

I doubt that there are any barrels on the market made of this process.
 
From every thing I've read, and every viable thing I've heard, most of the comments about the weakness of MIM parts is an internet myth. MIM parts are used in racing cars, jet engines and airframes, M-1A1 tanks, You name it. I know there are those who claim that " the MIM hammer broke on my S&W with the first shot ", I will not start a flame with any comments about that. I will state I have a Kimber that has at least 4,000 rounds thru it and still ticking. Other than the small custom builders ( and they use the absent of MIM parts as a sales gimmick ), I think you could count on your first two fingers the numbers of gun manufactures that don't use MIM parts.
 
Just answer the question

These are MIM free as far as I know:
Dan Wesson
Les Baer
Ed Brown
Kahr P & K series

Not advertised as such:
CZ ??? (Someone should contact them for a definitive answer)
 
Just note that "not MIM" does not mean "high quality". Before MIM was ever invented, we had hammers that broke, triggers that were soft as butter, sears that bent, bolt lugs that sheared off, slide lugs that battered, etc., etc. It seems to me that overall quality is more important than worrying about whether a part is MIM. I would rather have an MIM hammer made by S&W than a no-name hammer cast out of genuine junk metal alloy.

Jim
 
From every thing I've read, and every viable thing I've heard, most of the comments about the weakness of MIM parts is an internet myth.
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That's not the point.

Bad MIM parts are more likely to end up out the door.

MIM, for example, may produce parts with 99% success and 1% failure rate.

Manufacturing process "X" may have a 50% failure rate but is "finished" and "touched up", allowing for a successful part rate of 99.99%

There is no "finishing" with MIM, because the initial manufacture of MIM parts have such a high success rate.

In the end, the MIM part has a near 1% HIGHER failure rate out the door and in the consumers hand compared to manufacturing process "X".

Which manufacturing process would you rather have in the handgun you are about to buy, MIM or "X"?
 
Everybody wants to be an expert on everything.

If that were really possible, we'd all make our own guns using whatever methods we determined were best.

It's not possible, in fact the idea is more amusing than realistic.

The manufacturers hire experts. Pick a gun that meets your requirements and that is made by a manufacturer that is known for making quality products, for having a dedication to quality control, and for standing behind their products and don't try to micromanage their internal processes. The only things that really matter to you, as an end user, are that they are known for putting out good products and for standing behind them.

Let them take care of the details of how to make the product, what materials and methods to use, how to handle the metallurgy and strain analysis, and how to test the handgun for longevity, reliability, durability and safety.

I'm not talking about intentionally trying to remain ignorant, I'm talking about not micromanaging the manufacturer's/designer's decisions unless there is good cause to do so. Good cause would be, for example, reliable reports of problems with a particular product or of poor customer support.

I've seen this all before with aluminum, plastic, castings, sintering, and now MIM. Crappy aluminum guns from irreputable manufacturers without a reputation for quality products didn't hold up--good ones did. Crappy plastic guns from irreputable manufacturers without a reputation for quality products didn't hold up--good ones did. Crappy cast guns from irreputable manufacturers without a reputation for quality products didn't hold up--good ones did--and so on and so forth. There's a pattern in there somewhere for those who aren't seeing it.
Bad MIM parts are more likely to end up out the door.
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There's nothing special about quality checking MIM parts vs cast or forged parts. The same processes used to insure that a cast part is not defective will work just as well on an MIM part because the basic defects resulting from the two processes are very similar.

A manufacturer dedicated to quality control will put out good parts regardless of the process they use to make the parts.
 
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Evil Monkey said:
That's not the point.

Bad MIM parts are more likely to end up out the door.

MIM, for example, may produce parts with 99% success and 1% failure rate.

Manufacturing process "X" may have a 50% failure rate but is "finished" and "touched up", allowing for a successful part rate of 99.99%

There is no "finishing" with MIM, because the initial manufacture of MIM parts have such a high success rate.

In the end, the MIM part has a near 1% HIGHER failure rate out the door and in the consumers hand compared to manufacturing process "X".

Which manufacturing process would you rather have in the handgun you are about to buy, MIM or "X"?
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EM,

Do you have a study that state's this? I've never read one on their failure rates.
BTW, MIM does actually have a finishing process.
 
I agree with JohnKSa. I well remember when a foreign gun was roundly condemned as cheap junk, absolute trash because it used "all stamped out parts". It was described as made from old tin cans and nowhere near the quality of "good American forged steel". That cheap junk gun is better known as the P.38, now considered an "old school" pistol, made from high quality forgings in the traditional manner. And no MIM parts.

Jim
 
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