Titegroup powder issues

Sounds like not enough pressure

What grain of bullet? 115?

Welcome to the forum...

With a 115gr lead bullet Hodgdon lists 3.9gr Titegroup as the starting charge weight so I'm guessing that's what you are loading.

IMO the reason why those loads cycled the Sig and Glock and not the Beretta, pressure. The first 2 guns are lighter than the Beretta and have lighter slides. Physics takes over and there isn't enough energy to cycle the heavier slide.

Also IMO if you increase the charge weight you will see the problem clear up. Don't forget to test the accuracy along the way so you can use the most accurate round that will reliably cycle all your pistols.

Good luck keep us updated...

As Arch said, try increasing charge or you can shorten OAL (1.150) to increase pressure.

Falconpunch said:

Sorry the bullets are 125g, I can try the next few to lower to 1.150 and or put more powder in there to see how they do.

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Well then, your charge is only .1gr off the max charge but your OAL is much longer. Hodgdon used an OAL of 1.125" so I would try that OAL. It will make a difference since the 9mm is a very small cartridge and small changes in bullet seating depth will change pressures.

In reality even with the increased case space your charge really isn't all that light. Are you totally sure your charge is in reality 3.9gr?

Falconpunch said:

But Ill lower the oal and see how it goes. The book says 1.125 min to 1.169 max correct ? I don't have my book with me at the moment.

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The max is correct but I know the min is shorter, I just don't remember how much shorter. I do know Hodgdon has jacketed data using an OAL of 1.069". I'm only recommending that 1.125" OAL because the data given by Hodgdon was tested safe at that OAL. (and because you're having a problem)

*EDIT*
I just looked the min/max up on the SAAMI site and the max is 1.169" as we thought but the min is 1.000" which I would have never thought. lol

Since the Hodgdon load data does list 4.0gr as the max charge it probably can't hurt but IMO if you leave the charge @3.9gr and use 1.125" as your OAL in will solve the cycling problem with the Beretta.

Remember, that is an awfully large gun for a 9mm and that slide is very long and heavy.

Im tellin you these dudes know their stuff!

Another thing to look at is the barrel. 92s are notorious for having oversize barrels. One of mine actually slugs at ..3585. I would shine a light down your barrel and check for leading. I am betting there is a good chance you will see some.

If the bullets are smaller in diameter than your barrel, it will decrease pressure significantly. It will also completely ruin accuracy and cause severe leading. There are many threads and videos out there on slugging your barrel. I would start there and then measure the diameter of your bullets to make sure they are at least .001 larger than your barrel.

If you have any of the longer lengths left, why not just reseat a few to a shorter OAL.

Ive thought about trying that...I have some 380 loads I did and they wont eject. I believe RC advises against the practice of increasing pressure by shortening OAL though (fyi)

And I learned you can count on your load not working out for some reason if you just up and make 50 of them without testing for function It must be the handloading Gods punishment for shortcutting.

Potatohead said:

Ive thought about trying that...I have some 380 loads I did and they wont eject. I believe RC advises against the practice of increasing pressure by shortening OAL though (fyi)

And I learned you can count on your load not working out for some reason if you just up and make 50 of them without testing for function It must be the handloading Gods punishment for shortcutting.

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I remember that thread. The OP was talking about trying to control the pressure and velocity by changing the OAL instead of using the powder range listed in the load data. rc was correct to tell him to increase the powder as a general rule.

In this case a heavy slide won't cycle and the reloader did not use the OAL listed as safe for that data, in effect reversing the order of the other thread. We are only suggesting in this thread he following the load data as written before the OP starts looking for other problems. I'm not telling the OP to use the OAL to increase pressures, only to use the OAL they used so as not to reduce pressures.

Your COL should be based on your gun not necessary what current loading data is. Use the listed COL in the loading data as a "not to exceed", for COL can effect pressure. Have you done the "plunk test" on your berretta to see what the COL would be for that firearm? After you find the right COL, you want to make a few dummy rounds and verify that they load/eject fine. Is your feed ramp polished? If not, pick up a tube of Flitz polish and buff the feed ramp.

TheXracer said:

Your COL should be based on your gun not necessary what current loading data is.

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+1

Chamber pressure testing is typically done with universal barrel fixtures and not with actual firearms with slides that cycle. Using the listed OAL/COL in published load data won't ensure the cartridge lengths will work optimally for your pistol/barrel to reliably feed and chamber from the magazine. When I conduct load development, I will first determine the maximum OAL/COL using the barrel and next determine the working OAL/COL by feeding the dummy round (no powder/no primer) from the magazine and releasing the slide without riding it (you want to determine the working OAL/COL before conducting powder work up. Exception to this is with 115 gr bullet with shorter bullet base and I will use shorter OAL/COL like 1.125"-1.135" for greater neck tension to better build initial chamber pressure build) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

When using lead bullets (especially in known oversized barrels), you should slug your barrel to determine the groove-to-groove diameter using a lead shot or squished lead bullet (I use a hammer or a bench vise but measure the groove-to-groove diameter with a caliper first and use a lead shot/bullet that is squished larger in diameter). You just need to tap in like 0.5 inch from muzzle and out instead of driving the length of the barrel. Many posted Beretta barrels are oversized at .357"-.358"+. Using .356" sized bullet in oversized barrel will result in high pressure gas leakage around the bullet which will produce more gas cutting, reduced chamber pressures and more leading. While most agree lead bullets sized .001" over the groove diameter is preferred, your finished rounds still need to chamber. I would try starting at larger sized .357"+ bullet that will still chamber in your barrel.

As to powder work up, the published load data you are using was likely developed using .355"-356" groove diameter test barrel. So if your barrel is oversized, even using SAAMI max of 1.169" OAL/COL and max powder charge will result in gas leakage that will not work to reliably cycle the slide (as you found out in your range test). Heavier slide? IMHO/IME, it's often the recoil spring rate that dictates how much force is required to reliably cycle the slide, extract and eject the spent cases so you won't end up with stove piped cases.

You could use higher powder charge but I suggest you use a larger diameter bullet with published load data to produce more consistent chamber pressure, decrease gas cutting and leading that will ultimately produce greater accuracy. If you don't have ready access to larger sized bullets, you could use a vise to squish the bullet to .357"+ sizing. Mind you, your RN bullets will become RNFP and you'll need to adjust your OAL/COL but you will be able to test whether larger sized bullet will work with published load data.

Falconpunch said:

Sig p228 and glock ... shot the ammo with no problem at all.

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If "squished" larger sized bullets work in the Beretta then you can use the bullets for Sig/Glock and buy larger sized bullets for the Beretta.

9mm Luger, 1.125" oal, 125 grain LRN, 4.3 grains Titegroup is my load.
Had same problem with my Keltec Sub2000. Hotter load solved it completely, and it burned cleaner too.

Could be a number of things.
Shortening the OAL might help.

Something to think about:
I have a 9mm that just doesn't like 115 gr bullets.
Doesn't matter if it's lead or plated or jacketed.
I've tried a number of powders/charges etc.
I've tried factory ammo too.

But give it 124 gr bullets & it eats 'em all day!
Doesn't matter if it's lead/plated/jacketed.
All work great.
So I have some ammo that's just for that gun.

Every gun is different.
You can even have 2 of the same model & they may act totally different.

Half the joy (or frustration) of reloading is finding that sweet spot.

Good luck!

I'm a bit surprised at all the discussion here about oal without knowing exactly what bullet the op is using. Unless I missed something, all we know is it's 125gr lead. It appears the assumption has been that it's a LRN, but what if it's an SWC he's been seating way out there? An SWC may not cycle through his gun no matter the OAL.

Hondo, that's why I like my Walther PPS so much. It's ate up everything I've put through it. Which has only been 115gr and 124gr jacketed and plated so far. I've been thinking about testing some 147gr bullets in it.

germ said:

I'm a bit surprised at all the discussion here about oal without knowing exactly what bullet the op is using. Unless I missed something, all we know is it's 125gr lead. It appears the assumption has been that it's a LRN, but what if it's an SWC he's been seating way out there? An SWC may not cycle through his gun no matter the OAL.

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An OAL of 1.160 (I know max is 1.165) is long for a RN. Definitely too long for other profiles. If anything would work at a long OAL of 1.160, it would be the RN.

His pistol too may just not like lead. I haven't even tried lead in mine due to so many bad reviews of folks with a Walther PPS trying to use lead.

Falconpunch said:

125 gr lead bullets using titegroup powder 3.9g with the OAL being 1.160 for my beretta 92fs ... It will stovepipe or not eject the case.

Sig p228 and glock ... shot the ammo with no problem at all.

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Since the same reloads worked for Sig and Glock, the problem is specific to Beretta 92FS, likely due to oversized barrel.

All my LRS are out of every powder till I don't know when to try different powder.

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If the oversized Beretta barrel is the root cause of the problem, changing powder may not solve the stove piping problem.

I think the Beretta stove piping problem will most likely be addressed by larger sized lead bullets that will better seal with the oversized barrel.

Should I increase the powder over 4.0 at all ? like make like 10 bullets that are only 4.0 above and the rest normal 3.9 1.125

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You could try increasing the powder charge but keep in mind that you will still have high pressure gas leakage around the bullet due to oversized barrel (so you will likely have leading/accuracy issues). Decreasing the OAL may increase neck tension and improve initial chamber pressure build and help with the stove piping problem but may not be enough to expand/deform the bullet base to seal with the oversized barrel and you'll likely continue having leading/accuracy issues.