"Registration" Misconception

Consider this if Investigators can recover Lois Lerner emails from destroyed hard drive how hard will it be to recover "deleted" instant checks?

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Pretty darn easy if you know anything about what information NSA collects and stores. If the BC went to the FBI using their website and your computer they have it for as long as they want to keep it. It may have been deleted on the FBI server but NSA has different gear and rules. They don't even answer to the DOJ.

BSA1 Dogtown Tom,

The mistake you are making is you are defining "delete" in the common usage by citizens not government bureaucrats. As a retired government bureaucrat I can tell you that every agency has it's set of definitions and policies. Often policies that are in violation of Federal will be enforced until they are sued and taken to Court (this also applies to most States).

Consider this if Investigators can recover Lois Lerner emails from destroyed hard drive how hard will it be to recover "deleted" instant checks?

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Would you prefer "destroyed"?

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet

Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day. If a potential purchaser is delayed or denied a firearm and successfully appeals the decision, the NICS Section cannot retain a record of the overturned appeal.....

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Speaking bureaucrat the regulation you quoted only applies to one department ( the NICS Section), doesn't specify what destroy means and from what computers it is to be removed (destroyed) from. The Regulation is largely meaningless since we don't know how many programs the information is on, how many computers and how many other agencies have assess to those programs and computers.

That's to say nothing about a loyal political hack like Lerner saving the information on their thumb drive. I'm not paranoid it's just most Americans don't have a clue about the tremendous abuse of power by Government Agencies.

The transfer form, 4473, goes into the dealers file where it remains until he goes out of business. At such time, he bundles up all of his 4473 forms along with his "bound books" and sends them to the BATF where I presume they sit in a warehouse till the end of time.

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Almost got it correct.
4473s are held for 20 years by the FFL.

'Bound books' live forever.

When an FFL license ends the last 20 years of 4473s go to BATFE along with ALL the 'bound books.'

They sit in WV in a warehouse.
BATFE is prohibited from "computerizing" them by its appropriation law.

Gamestalker: “Ya buddy, gotta love our Arizona, it's the best!”

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I’ll second that! While I was moving from CA to AZ, I asked a AZ Stat trooper about how to register my CA purchased guns in AZ. After giving me a weird look, he educated me that gun registration was illegal in AZ! LOVE IT!

Mljdeckard: “There are rumors and anecdotes of cases where BATFE will illegally copy 4473s as part of an investigation.”

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They can only legally copy the 4473 related to an investigation, but not during a regular audit.

In a conversation I’ had with the owner of a local pawn shop, he stated that when he gets an inspection, they down load his automated bound book and photocopy the 4473s. No reason for him to lie.

In a conversation I’ had with the owner of a local pawn shop, he stated that when he gets an inspection, they down load his automated bound book and photocopy the 4473s. No reason for him to lie.

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I filled out an automated 4473 at Cabelas once. Only the information that goes to NICS was on that automated form. I think it is only the first page of the 4473 and a digitized signature IIRC. I'm pretty sure that was zipped off to NICS soon after I filled it out. No big deal.

If the FFL is using an automated form 4473, filling in the rest of the info, storing it on their computer to generate hard copy they have created a registration database for the ATF/FBI. They can take your computer after they get a warrant along with the files that are in it. I suspect that the larger stores like Cabelas and Gander Mtn. just give those digital 4473's to the ATF when requested.

When I was working I used to keep all of my personal stuff on a thumb drive, I never saved anything I didn't want someone else to access on a network or gov't HD. Everyone I worked with had a geek whistle around their neck or in a pocket. A lot of sensitive gov't data that should be on a system HD is on those thumb drives. A few years ago people stopped using email at work because of the electronic record. They just started doing business the old fashioned way, they talked to each other.

Pretty much everyone is aware of this, since it is brought up in damn near every single thread about registration.

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Perhaps every one HERE understands that ... but I can assure you that the general public does not. A week doesn't go by that I don't set someone straight on "registration", and how in most places there is no such thing.

Too much watching crime shows on TV.

You can destroy the first 15 years of records as an FFL is only required to keep them for 20 years or until he/she goes out of business

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And actually, it'd be very nice for your clients if you do that. In fact, several FFL's I know will brag that they only keep 20 years of records...and some of their long-term clients buy from them for that reason.