Extremely disappointed with my new LCP

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Wareagle92893 said:
Herrwalther, I'm speaking strictly from experience of from the three different handguns I've bought while on Active Duty from three different FFL's. Not a single one of them would accept my lease agreement as proof of residency. I'll admit having to fill out a sworn statement in addition to a 1 day fishing license in lieu of a utility bill, Cac card, and military orders was a first for me. These aren't military regulations I'm dealing with, it's satisfying federal law that I'm eligible to purchase a handgun in the state I'm residing in, since I have an Alabama drivers license, and my vehicle is registered in Alabama. I just don't feel it's right that service members have to present extra paperwork that the average citizen doesn't. If you don't agree then we will just have to agree to disagree.

I think I have an excellent Commander, but I don't think it's necessary to bother him to sign a memo, nor do want him or anyone else I don't know on a personal level involved in my personal life than is absolutely required.
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First, allow me to add my view as a Southerner now residing in SoCal who has done plenty of sales w/ Mil ID customers, and also dealt w/ Ruger customer service. I'm assuming the California laws are what piss you off (same here).

When you send the gun off, put the return address as your future address or that of a relative who can receive it for you back near Auburn, AL. I admit this skirts into the grey zone, but technically you are not violating any statutes to do so. All the hassle you got from Quantico Tactical should have been avoided by them offering to ship it back free to Ruger... that is water under the bridge at this point. Consider the aforementioned method of packing it in plain packaging and shipping via FedEx 2nd Day Air. Will cost you about $50 or so, but as the pistols are done in Prescott, turnaround should literally be a week or less.

Biggest ISSUE for us CA residents will be that if/when Ruger ships out a brand spanking new pistol, your friendly CA FFL is required to Re-DROS the gun and you'll wait another 10 days since it will be a new Serial Number. (So send it to Alabama!)
http://www.ruger.com/service/serviceShipping.html#
Best of luck!
 
PJSprog said:
Not an LCP issue ... but regarding your LGS problem, I recently took an old S&W revolver into a LGS near me - one with whom I had never done any previous business - and they agreed to send it to S&W for me for them to complete the required repairs.

Federal law states that your gun must be shipped by a licensed dealer, and then back to a licensed dealer. Your dealer just doesn't want to do that. I would find someone else to deal with.
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No it doesn't.
 
In its quick reference guide to FFLs, the ATF spells out the requirements for proof of (1) identification and (2) residency.

Most residents can use a single government-issued document to meet this: their driver's license. Military members may use a combination of two documents, their military ID card and a copy of PCS orders. This reflects existing U.S. statutes and legal rulings from the ATF.

In my opinion, producing a copy of my orders is far easier than changing residency and obtaining a driver's license from every state in which I am stationed. It's worked for me over 26 years of active duty service (and counting). If your FFLs give you grief, show them page 6 of the guide and the reverse side of the 4473 and hopefully they'll adapt.

Link to guide: https://www.atf.gov/file/58676/download

Relevant text:

Military members on active duty and legal aliens have special residency considerations.

A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. FFLs may accept electronic permanent change of station (PCS) orders, accompanied by a valid military identification card, to establish residency for an active duty military member of the Armed Forces.

-----

Military members and legal aliens may have special identification document considerations.

No additional valid identification documentation is required of an active-duty member of the Armed Forces or a legal alien if he or she possesses a valid identification document (e.g., driver’s license) that contains his or her name, residence address, date of birth, and photograph and is issued by the State in which your business premises is located. If a member of the Armed Forces or a legal alien does not possess a valid, State-issued identification document with the necessary information, you may accept a combination of valid Government-issued documents to satisfy the identification document requirement. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may satisfy the identification document requirement by presenting his or her military identification card along with official orders showing his or her permanent duty station.
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First of all, thank you for your service to our country. It is because of fine folks like yourself that we can sleep at night without worrying about things blowing up in our back yard!

I am a previous owner of an LCP. It was a great gun the entire time I owned it and never had any problems. The reason I sold it was because it was too small for my purposes. I ended up trading it for a Kel Tec PF-9 (Ruger LC-9 size gun). That is a much better fit because I can get all my fingers on it without a grip extension. Ruger will make it right. I don't blame you for wanting a different gun. I would take a hard look at the Glock 42, especially since you can get LE/military pricing on it. See a participating Glock dealer for info.
 
Just sent a Smith back to the factory. Smith sent a pre paid Fed X label. The rule there is that where ever Fed x picks it up from is the place it must be returned to. Had to have it picked up from my office in Montgomery cause there will be no one to sjign for it at my house since I'm on the road most everyday. I would think you could send it in yourself via Fed X or UPS 2 day air and have it returned to an FFL of your choice since you are paying the shipping. Oh, and WDE friend!
 
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Wareagle92893 said:
Herrwalther, I'm speaking strictly from experience of from the three different handguns I've bought while on Active Duty from three different FFL's. Not a single one of them would accept my lease agreement as proof of residency. I'll admit having to fill out a sworn statement in addition to a 1 day fishing license in lieu of a utility bill, Cac card, and military orders was a first for me. These aren't military regulations I'm dealing with, it's satisfying federal law that I'm eligible to purchase a handgun in the state I'm residing in, since I have an Alabama drivers license, and my vehicle is registered in Alabama. I just don't feel it's right that service members have to present extra paperwork that the average citizen doesn't. If you don't agree then we will just have to agree to disagree.
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I don't agree with the extra paperwork either. It doesn't make sense to me that when Uncle Sam points to some base on a map to go that we should show extra paperwork to exercise a right. But I didn't write the red tape.

As I mentioned, I have bought firearms on active duty. In states that didn't match my driver's license. A memo from a commander goes a long way. I have also used a renter's agreement for residency at multiple locations. It also varies largely by state. There was only one place where a rent agreement did not work, and that was in NY.
 
If I were you, I would make sure before I leave that duty station to tell as many people as possible about the crappy ( and possibly dishonest) service that I received from that gun shop.
I've owned an LCP for about 4 years and it's been nothing but great.
 
Wareagle as to your barrel close ups, I just looked at both of my LCP's. One has never been fired (except by factory) and the other has less than a hundred rounds through it. The barrels look identical externally, no wear marks what so ever.
 
herrwalther said:
I have also used a renter's agreement for residency at multiple locations. It also varies largely by state. There was only one place where a rent agreement did not work, and that was in NY.
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The instructions for completing the 4473 require that any documents used to verify residency are government-issued. So unless you are renting from the government, a lease typically would not be sufficient.

See p. 5, instructions for completing block 20.b.:

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download
 
Oh yeah believe me, I've already typed up a better business bureau complaint, and gave them a negative review on everywhere I could. Also just got back from a cigar lounge I frequent, and I told my story, and showed the pictures to anyone who would listen to me lol. To jgh4445 that's interesting you work in Montgomery. I'm just pending drug test results for a final offer from Montgomery PD.
 
kwc said:
In its quick reference guide to FFLs, the ATF spells out the requirements for proof of (1) identification and (2) residency.

Most residents can use a single government-issued document to meet this: their driver's license. Military members may use a combination of two documents, their military ID card and a copy of PCS orders. This reflects existing U.S. statutes and legal rulings from the ATF.

In my opinion, producing a copy of my orders is far easier than changing residency and obtaining a driver's license from every state in which I am stationed. It's worked for me over 26 years of active duty service (and counting). If your FFLs give you grief, show them page 6 of the guide and the reverse side of the 4473 and hopefully they'll adapt.

Link to guide: https://www.atf.gov/file/58676/download

Relevant text:
Click to expand...
Yes KWC +1 for military fellas buying out of their "home state". All that is technically required is your Military ID & PCS Orders. Some gun shops in California don't understand the basics of how ATF and CA DOJ laws mesh here and they err on the side of pleasing Cal DOJ 1st. The ATF has much simpler rules. At my gun shop we never sweated an ATF inspection, but were always annoyed by the CA DOJ Firearms Bureau pinheads. Ah well, need to move the heck to Montana soon!!!
 
Hold onto that gun until you get to your new address, then call ruger for a shipping label. I think you'll probably get a new pistol.
 
The gun store has several options. I saw a woman return a gun at a gun show, that she bought at the same vendor from another gun show a couple weeks before. People just don't want to be bothered. The guy you dealt with sounds like pond scum.
 
Fremmer said:
Hold onto that gun until you get to your new address, then call ruger for a shipping label. I think you'll probably get a new pistol.
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+1
...best idea yet. Sometimes you have to put aside emotion and fury and logically think things through. Ship it from your new address = brilliant. This way California won't screw with you.
 
kwc said:
The instructions for completing the 4473 require that any documents used to verify residency are government-issued. So unless you are renting from the government, a lease typically would not be sufficient.
Click to expand...

The easiest document to provide for residency is a utility bill with your name and address in the state. Has worked for me buying firearms in 6 different states. Do governments run utilities? Nope. If your utilities are part of rent, they will be outlined in the agreement. I bought my very first firearm with nothing more than a cell phone bill in hand.
 
herrwalther said:
The easiest document to provide for residency is a utility bill with your name and address in the state. Has worked for me buying firearms in 6 different states. Do governments run utilities? Nope. If your utilities are part of rent, they will be outlined in the agreement. I bought my very first firearm with nothing more than a cell phone bill in hand.
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FFLs may choose to do this, but it isn't legal. It's their risk to take.
 
Doesn't ruger sell that grip. That's not a serial number part. On a KelTec that can be bought for a few $$ and then change over your self. That not frame. Frame sets inside and is serial numbered .

KelTec sold ivory colored ones and people used to dye different colors .

If Ruger won't sell you that part. I be very up set .

Glad I own 6 KelTec and not the Ruger copy.

In my 10 years of active duty I never had a problem buying guns . I filed out 4473 showed my military ID. and went home with my pistol shot gun or rifle. . Bought in KY ,AL, GA, and CO.
 
Cool Wareagle. Let me know if you get the job here. My son is the GM for one of the best LGS's in Alabama, Walter Craigs Sportsmans HQ right here in Montgomery. Most of the LEO's do business there.
 
Sorry you had a problem with your Ruger. They will make it right. That's why I buy Ruger, lifetime fast no BS warranty.
My cc is LCP. Fired 6x per week for last 5-6 years. Narry a problem all brands of ammo.
Catpop
 
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