“Small hands and women shooters”

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max it

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Why do people assume that small hands need small guns?
Or better yet why do women want who don’t shoot regularly want complicated auto loaders?
My medium hands work fine on my CZ75B SA
And My Beretta 92FS.
I do have to shift grip to drop mags and also to release safety.
For tactical competition I use my Springfield XD or my Glock. No safety to practice for. And the XD has ambi mag release. That’s what I would recommend for small hands. furthermore if one isn’t to shoot regularly but want a self defense gun I recommend revolver; no levers, switches, point and shoot. Several $300 models out there. IMHO. your turn.
much obliged
Max.
 
I have seen many women at the range I attempt learning to shoot with what the range owner/instructor has, Glock 17 and Beretta 98, with no problems. I still think pistols with thinner grips could be more comfortable for them but luckly enough human hands are capable to adapting.
 
I think some women prefer smaller guns because it fits their hands better, it's lighter, it's more concealable with their smaller frame and style of dress, and for many new shooters, it's less intimidating...

With all that said, it should not matter what size gun they settle on just as long as they're happy with their choice and they are accurate with it...
 
I bought my last girlfriend a gun.

She chose a Ruger LC9s.

She wanted a small gun because it would be easier to carry. (true)
She wanted a smaller gun because she thought it would be easier to handle recoil. (Only true if you choose a less powerful cartridge.)
She wanted one gun to do everything...……. just cuz. (Poor strategy given that larger guns shoot softer in many cases.)
She thought a smaller gun would be easier to hang on to because it "felt good in her hand". (This can be true. An optimal sized grip is important, but its about more than just size.
She wanted an auto loader because she felt revolvers were bulky, cumbersome, "too heavy", and too old fashioned. (This can be true also, but can be mitigated.

I approached it from the standpoint of it's her gun, and she needs to own the gun she wants. We'll work on mastering it once she has a smile on her face. I also told her repeatedly that there are new models coming out all the time, and I would not be insulted if she decided to trade her gun in for a different one. We broke up. I saw her a few months later and I asked her if she had shot her gun at all. "No." Then I asked her if she'd cleaned it after the last time we shot. "No."

I'm glad I didn't spend more.

Women and men both want what they want. It's good to share knowledge to help someone make an informed decision, but ultimately everyone needs to shoot what they want to shoot and what works for them.
 
most handguns have pretty small grips from medium size on down. I don't have the biggest hand, but often have to adjust my grip so my trigger finger isn't up to the 2nd Knuckle. The only couple handguns I've fired that seemed like they had a full size grip - was a Beretta 92S, sort of like holding a 2/4, and a comparable Sig. I saw one video of a girl shooting a Smith and Wesson Model 10, and her comments were that the reach to the trigger was too far, and she had to stretch her grip forward just to work the trigger. I'd think being able to work the trigger comfortably would be the biggest concern for anyone.
 
I've seen far more men making poor decisions on firearms than women. And then start bitching to everyone who cares to listen how their new toy is "inferior" and "doesn't meet their needs". Well guess what, Sherlock, you could have thought of that before buying that firearm, not after that...
 
Why do people assume that small hands need small guns?
Because these assumptions are from people that don't have small hands and don't understand the issue. The issue is trigger reach and not how many fingers fit on a grip.

Or better yet why do women want who don’t shoot regularly want complicated auto loaders?
Primary reason is probably to avoid a 12 lb double action trigger pull on a revolver.

My medium hands work fine on my CZ75B SA
Often a gun recommended to those with small hands, by those who don't have small hands, because while it is a comfortable gun, it isn't small hand friendly due to trigger reach and safety reach.

I do have to shift grip to drop mags and also to release safety.
Things that you want to activate with a shooting grip should be within reach with a shooting grip. That is usually limited to the trigger and a manual safety on a single action semi-auto. Controls you don't want to activate while shooting, such as the mag release (inadvertently dropping a mag while shooting), or slide release (inadvertently locking the slide open or not allowing it to lock back on empty) should be out of your reach to avoid fouling them.

Shannon Smith on reaching the mag release, paraphrasing from the 2:05 mark ... "There is no mag release on the planet I can reach without rotating the gun in my hand."

 
Well, I can press the mag release on a Hi-Power without shifting my grip at all. If only I was a right handed shooter... ;)
 
A lot women, including my wife, prefer revolvers because they do not have the grip strength required to rack the slide on many pistols.
The complexity of semi auto pistols may be an obstacle for some but not for my wife or women in general.
 
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Revolvers are harder to shoot. Especially J frames.

People with small hands can shoot most service sized autos.

I do a ladies class once a week for the last five years.

We give the Glocks, CZs, Sigs, XDs... All full size. I
think only 4 or 5 had real issues running full size autos. One of the ladies was missing her thumb.

Proper grip is the key.

Autos are not that complicated. Really. I think that's an idea that can go away.

IMHO
 
I think there are several things at work.

  • First, there is a psychological tendency to assume that smaller guns - not just smaller grips, but smaller guns - will be easier to handle.
    • I think some of this is because of people's real world experience with tools and machinery where it is often true. It is easier to handle a compact car than a delivery van/box truck. It is easier for most people to be precise with a 4" paring knife than with an 8" chef's knife. And in sporting equipment, it's usually true that women's models of sporting "tools" will usually be lighter and slightly smaller, particularly when it comes to things held in the hand and swung (like bats or clubs or racquets).
    • This assumption gets reinforced by movies and TV shows involving guns, where the women characters often shoot smaller guns, and where bigger guns typically have more recoil/flash. Dirty Harry had a big gun, and it had big recoil. Black Widow shoots a pair of Glock 26 baby glock sub-compacts, and those guns don't do anything in her hands but have the slide reciprocate (because they are prop guns not launching anything but a puff of flammable gas). This trope is so well ingrained that the original Men In Black movie made a joke of Agent J being given a small space gun (the "noisy cricket") that actually had tremendous recoil. A small gun with a lot of recoil is a joke in Hollywood - whereas in real life, I have personally characterized the recoil of .357's from a J-frame as "no joke."
  • Second, there is a further psychological issue that many people, especially women, are conditioned against gripping things hard, and are further conditioned to only need to grip small diameter things with force. When do most people (especially women) use a significant percentage of their grip strength? Typically when lifting/holding things with handles (shopping bags, suitcases) or when using some handle to partially support their body weight (grab handles on car door frames, stair railings). These are most often small-diameter holds, with the hand almost a clenched fist. For people (including most women) who don't squeeze plier handles very often, squeezing hard with all the fingers on the left hand back against heel/palm, and doing so at a time where the hand is half open is rare. The muscles aren't well developed, and the psychology of clenching hard before the hand can even get nearly-closed is foreign. Given that one of the most common problems for newer pistol shooters - even those who are well instructed - is applying sufficient force (especially with the weak/non-dominant hand), this is a big deal. If a smaller diameter grip is going to pyschologically induce more willingness to clamp down harder with the left hand, that's going to (not unreasonably) feel like something that the user can get more control over.
  • Third, there is the very real issue of trigger reach. The conventional wisdom is that it is best to actuate the trigger of a pistol through the motion of the proximal joint.
hand_anatomy_ip01.jpg The CW is that it is ideal for only that joint to move, with no pivoting of the distal joint required. That is generally going to be easier if you can get the proximal joint far enough forward to be roughly in-line (when viewed from above or the side) with the trigger's pivot/travel or only somewhat behind that point. And for heavier triggers and/or with longer travels, it can become very difficult to apply enough force in a controlled manner if that proximal joint is very far behind the trigger... you necessarily have to use a clenching motion, rather than a single-joint pivot/press motion.

Now, working against that, you have certain physics realities. One is that a larger, heavier gun will have less recoil velocity than a smaller, lighter one. And a longer barrel will generally have less of the blast/flash that is so bothersome to newer shooters and so inducing of blink-involved flinches. Another is that, if one is actually using their weak/non-dominant hand appropriately, getting enough grip surface exposed on the left side* of the gun after the right hand is in place requires a certain amount of size... often a little more than newer shooters think is ideal.

So, in conclusion, I think someone choosing a gun for a newer shooter needs accept certain trigger reach needs, and then generally go as large as can be tolerated for the purpose and not be physically exhausting to hold in a firing position for a minute.

*Assuming a right-handed shooter.
 
My wife is a tad over 5 foot. Very small hands. She has carried a Taurus 85 for decades. Shoots it well. She also stole my Glock 42 (I had to get another for myself).

But she can shoot a 1911 well, but doesn't like the recoil. Most of what is right comes down to experience, practice and good old fashioned desire.
 
I get that, but what do they do about that DA trigger pull?

If it's got a hammer, SA works well too.

My wife greatly prefers revolvers over autos, her gun is a Tracker 357 because it can cover all sorts of ground from outdoors stuff to normal defence stuff.
 
If it's got a hammer, SA works well too.

My wife greatly prefers revolvers over autos, her gun is a Tracker 357 because it can cover all sorts of ground from outdoors stuff to normal defence stuff.
A good choice.

I would argue that if you can't DA a DA revolver, it isn't for you.

If you ever need it in a hurry, there's a strong chance it's gonna be DA.
 
Why do people assume that small hands need small guns?
Because many of us were taught improperly that a tight/death grip is required for proper control of pistols.

And when shooters with small hands gravitate toward smaller guns, I caution them smaller guns tend to produce more snappy felt recoil compared to larger guns.

When introducing people to shooting/fast point shooting at multiple targets that require good control of pistols, I train them on push/pull method that produces neutral balanced grip without trigger finger or other fingers adding input on the pistol grip to move POI away from POA - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902444

Once shooter is proficient with proper grip, even shooters with small hands can effectively control large frame pistols. I have had shooters with small hands comfortably control full size 1911s and Glocks who ended up choosing them as their preferred pistols.

And you really only need 2 fingers to properly control the pistol - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...udes-towards-semi-autos.861163/#post-11339576

And if you need to shoot one hand and can't comfortably reach the trigger? There is shooting with middle finger with index finger along the frame for longer reach option.
 
A good choice.

I would argue that if you can't DA a DA revolver, it isn't for you.

If you ever need it in a hurry, there's a strong chance it's gonna be DA.

You aren't wrong at all, but by the same token if the person lacks the hand strength to pull a double action trigger and can't pull a slide back either, using it just as a SA revolver is better choice than hoping you never run into a jam or need to reload.

My mom was a slight woman with low hand strength but not small hands. We got her a PMR30.

My wife likes the DA pull on the Tracker, it's pretty smooth and not very heavy too
 
You aren't wrong at all, but by the same token if the person lacks the hand strength to pull a double action trigger and can't pull a slide back either, using it just as a SA revolver is better choice than hoping you never run into a jam or need to reload.

My mom was a slight woman with low hand strength but not small hands. We got her a PMR30.

My wife likes the DA pull on the Tracker, it's pretty smooth and not very heavy too
we all toss the dice and take our chances.

In the days of 20+ mags, I think the modern semi, loaded and ready to go, has a meaningful edge over the revolver for those with weak hands/disability. 4.

But as always, to each their own.
 
we all toss the dice and take our chances.

In the days of 20+ mags, I think the modern semi, loaded and ready to go, has a meaningful edge over the revolver for those with weak hands/disability. 4.

But as always, to each their own.

The worry for me with weak hands and wrists with an auto is limp wristing.

Then they have a jammed gun without a way to fix it. You could steer them towards a heavier gun to prevent it but then we are back to weak hands/wrists again
 
The worry for me with weak hands and wrists with an auto is limp wristing.

Then they have a jammed gun without a way to fix it. You could steer them towards a heavier gun to prevent it but then we are back to weak hands/wrists again

Most people have enough arm and hand strength to hold even a fairly heavy pistol out in a two-handed grip for 30 seconds.
 
The worry for me with weak hands and wrists with an auto is limp wristing.
This is another myth.

What I found happening is use of improper grip quickly tiring hand/forearm muscles which leads to "limp wristing" or not providing proper grip for the slide to reliably cycle.

I tell people proper push/pull neutral balanced grip should result in most of the work being done by larger shoulder/chest/back muscles with hands/palms/fingers working minimally. After proper instruction on grip, even female shooters with small "weak" hands are able to maintain proper grip without tiring over extended shooting sessions (My training sessions run 3-4 hours of shooting) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902444

index.php


At 1:55 minute mark of video, Rob demonstrates proper neutral balanced push/pull grip to steady the pistol for faster accurate shots. (Key is shifting the work of push/pull to larger shoulder/chest/back muscles to not only better steady the pistol but to be able to maintain the grip longer without tiring)

 
Initially, I wasn't drawn to small guns at all. I was afraid of them. Of course, what I consider a big gun is probably not a big gun to some of you. My Shield is really the perfect size for me. I don't consider it small. However, after I gained some experience and especially for carry, I went small. I think that the smaller gun is much more difficult to handle well.
 
This is another myth.

What I found happening is use of improper grip quickly tiring hand/forearm muscles which leads to "limp wristing" or not providing proper grip for the slide to reliably cycle.

I tell people proper push/pull neutral balanced grip should result in most of the work being done by larger shoulder/chest/back muscles with hands/palms/fingers working minimally. After proper instruction on grip, even female shooters with small "weak" hands are able to maintain proper grip without tiring over extended shooting sessions (My training sessions run 3-4 hours of shooting) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902444

index.php


At 1:55 minute mark of video, Rob demonstrates proper neutral balanced push/pull grip to steady the pistol for faster accurate shots. (Key is shifting the work of push/pull to larger shoulder/chest/back muscles to not only better steady the pistol but to be able to maintain the grip longer without tiring)



Definitely, absolutely not a myth, especially with lighter guns. The slide needs something to fight back against in order to cycle, it's physics
 
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