•••Taurus public defender...?•••

[the Black Spot]

Not what you think. Got a question or two: i view some pics on line and it looks like the defender has long cylinder throats, is this true? And why in all the conversation about the judge/defender is all the bashing done becuase the 410 is lousy for SD?
It seems most over look the fact it shoots 45 colt(great for sd).
If they have long cylinder throats, hand loads in 45 colt might be the way to go. If not, one could load a heavier bullet farther out to shorten the jump.
Thoughts?

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

And why in all the conversation about the judge/defender is all the bashing done becuase the 410 is lousy for SD?

Mostly it is because they are silly gimmicks.

 

[the Black Spot]

So the gimmick is that they shoot 410?
no gimmick with 45 colt?

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

So the gimmick is that they shoot 410?
no gimmick with 45 colt?

It is that they shoot both, poorly.

 

[VoodooMountain]

Agreed. Gimmick. Every other revolver does its job better.

Why have a tool that does 2 jobs haphazardly when you can have a tool that does one job correctly?

 

[the Black Spot]

Ah, ok. I will look up some tests. Maybe i can find some posted target pics

 

[Indigo22]

I've never seen a test where they shoot .410 slugs...? Wonder how those would perform... They should stabilize.
Correction:
You-tube... several videos, look for them. There are some effective arguments in favor of the Judge's abilities. See: Shooting the Bull 410

 

[gotboostvr]

I got a deal on a SW governor, even using SD 410 factory loads it wouldn't punch through a single milk jug of water.

Its not exactly fun to plink with with 410 loads either.

Its considerably larger than it needs to be to shoot the only worthwhile loads the gun is capable of digesting. I'd just get a 45 DA (and did, a 625JM).

 

[the Black Spot]

So a 45 colt from a governor would not go through a milk jug, but the same load from a 625 will?

 

[entropy]

.45 ACP. The Governor fires .45 ACP, .45 LC, and 2 1/2" .410 gauge. The 625 JM is .45 ACP. The Taurus Judge fires .45 LC and .410, either 2 1/2 or 3", depending on the model.

 

[gotboostvr]

So a 45 colt from a governor would not go through a milk jug, but the same load from a 625 will?

Sorry, I've edited my post to clarify.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO and only my opinion both the Taurus and S&W models are way to large and heavy for what they do. The Governor is a huge hunk of steal and which is hard to conceal and very uncomfortable to carry all day. There are many better choices for an SD handgun.I

Before anyone here gives an opinion I highly suggest you actually handle one first.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

A friend of mine bought a Judge a few years back. He isn't much of a gun guy and suspect that is true of most that buy them.
It wasn't long before he told me he didn't like it.

 

[the Black Spot]

I would like a 45 colt snub, and short on funds. The polymer defender is only 4-5 oz more than an xds 3.3
It would seem with the long cylinder throats that the defender would work decent with 45 colt. I could care less about the 410

 

[Fiv3r]

Isn't the Judge's rifling very shallow to accommodate the shot going through it? Probably not the best for a .45 when you pair it with a long jump.

 

[the Black Spot]

From what i have seen in pics, it looks like they have long throats. This eliminates the long jump to the forcing cone

 

[gotboostvr]

I could care less about the 410

Then look at a charter arms 45LC bulldog.

Plus it's American made

 

[greenmtnguy]

Agreed, look at charters brand new bulldog in 45 colt, or the virtually identical 45acp Pitbull if you don't hand load.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

And why in all the conversation about the judge/defender is all the bashing done becuase the 410 is lousy for SD?
It seems most over look the fact it shoots 45 colt(great for sd).

A friend of mine bought a public defender. The first one had such a screwed up rotor (terminology?) on it that one cylinder wouldn't even fire in DA.
It went back to the shop and they exchanged him a new one. The cylinder fell off of that one while loading it.

The short barrel and long cylinder jump (I'm assuming) also made accuracy poor with 45 Colt, and as another poster stated, 410 shells had such low velocity that a milk jug was only partially penetrated at less than 15 feet with bird shot.

So then he got a S&W Gov. Much better gun, much higher price tag, same results with 410 shells (maybe ammo related), and only a little better 45 Colt accuracy. It's probably just because the barrel is a little longer. That is a long ass cylinder for the 45 slug to jump before hitting riffling.

Personally I won't use 410 shot of any kind out of a handgun for SD. And frankly I wouldn't use this type of gun with 45 Colt ammo past 7 yards, because the accuracy I've seen has been poor. I know most SD shootings happen close, but I want higher performance out of my handguns, and if I wanted to throw large and heavy slugs for SD, I'd be more apt to get a 44 magnum (S&W 629) or special (especially the GP100), the GP100 in 10mm, or more likely I'd just go with a smaller gun and use 357 magnum. There is nothing living in my area that a 357 won't handle.

 

[the Black Spot]

My problem is no one sells the bulldog locally and i want to handle before i buy

 

[Hertzer]

Never will understand why Taurus dropped their .45 colt model 450 for the judge. They had a very fine snub nose in .45 colt and made it worse so it could shot shotgun shells kinda.

 

[Hondo 60]

The problem with the Judge/Governor models is that they don't do anything as well as a dedicated caliber.
There are 410 shotguns that are better
There are 45 Colt guns that are better
etc, etc.

But on the other hand, if you're looking for just plain fun, I think I'd go with the S&W Gov.

 

[kozak6]

The point of the Judge is to shoot .410. Because of that, it may or may not shoot .45 very well.

In the same price range, you can get a Charter Arms in .44 special or .45 acp, or a Taurus Tracker in .44 mag.

 

[TTv2]

A friend of mine bought a public defender. The first one had such a screwed up rotor (terminology?) on it that one cylinder wouldn't even fire in DA.
It went back to the shop and they exchanged him a new one. The cylinder fell off of that one while loading it.

The short barrel and long cylinder jump (I'm assuming) also made accuracy poor with 45 Colt, and as another poster stated, 410 shells had such low velocity that a milk jug was only partially penetrated at less than 15 feet with bird shot.

So then he got a S&W Gov. Much better gun, much higher price tag, same results with 410 shells (maybe ammo related), and only a little better 45 Colt accuracy. It's probably just because the barrel is a little longer. That is a long ass cylinder for the 45 slug to jump before hitting riffling.

Personally I won't use 410 shot of any kind out of a handgun for SD. And frankly I wouldn't use this type of gun with 45 Colt ammo past 7 yards, because the accuracy I've seen has been poor. I know most SD shootings happen close, but I want higher performance out of my handguns, and if I wanted to throw large and heavy slugs for SD, I'd be more apt to get a 44 magnum (S&W 629) or special (especially the GP100), the GP100 in 10mm, or more likely I'd just go with a smaller gun and use 357 magnum. There is nothing living in my area that a 357 won't handle.

Birdshot is notoriously bad at penetrating, which is why few ever recommend it for use in self defense out of shotguns, let alone .410 snub revolvers. Birdshot is really bad in the Judge/Governor because of how fast the shot is spun, you'll be lucky if you hit your target with enough shot to do any meaningful damage.

I think any standard .44 or .45 revolver with shot loads will do as good (or bad depending on your view of it) a job of hitting what you're shooting at.

Where I disagree is the .45 Colt accuracy. No, it's not going to be better or equal to a standard .45 Colt revolver, but it's not meant to be a 25 yards pocket sniper revolver. Out to 15, the .410/.45's will work, but nobody is buying them for shooting out to 15 yards. These are point and shoot home defense handguns or carjacker guns or survivalist/prepper guns because just recently Shortlane came out with rifled adapters to shoot in .410 guns. A Judge that can shoot .38 Special and 9mm? Cool stuff for some people.

 

[TTv2]

My problem is no one sells the bulldog locally and i want to handle before i buy

A very good idea. I've seen Charter's that have the barrel crown cut off center so that when looking down the muzzle, at 6 O'Clock there was barely no crown and at 12 there was too much crown. That would make it shoot quite low indeed!

It's part of why I'm really hesitant to buy any Charter made after 1990. The workmanship of the first gen's is night and day compared to current revolvers. Not saying you can't get a good one, but I wouldn't take my chance ordering one online.

I do trust Charter to make things right if there's an issue, which is more than I can say I've heard about Taurus who may not even answer the phone when you call.