"00" or #4?

[Archangel14]

Okay gents, here's a hypothetical. I seek your input:

Suppose a scenario where you are confronted by multiple people, angry, excited, and ready to do you, your loved ones and neighbors physical harm. Let's suppose 5 hostile persons. You confront this group in an open area at about 10-20 yards, you demonstrate that you have a shotgun (12 gauge), you firmly, but respectfully ask that they disburse, warn them that the police are coming, and that you will use your firearm to protect yourself and the lives and safety of others if pushed. They do not heed your warning, but instead they advance on you with hostile intentions.

Question: what would you rather have in said shotgun, 00 or #4? Thanks.

 

[243winxb]

Currently i have buffered 4 buck with skeet choke.

 

[entropy]

Rounds that go bang without fail, with shot large enough to do damage. #4 Buck or 00 will both work in that situation. I stoke my HD shotgun with Win. PDX1 "buck and ball" loads. Best of both worlds.

 

[GRIZ22]

At those ranges I don't think it would make a difference.

 

[Shane in MT]

I'd create distance if possible.

If not possible, I'd put one center-mass armpit-level, into whoever looks to be the 'leader', and re-assess.

I'd tell the police I was in fear for my life, and the lives of others.

 

[Shane in MT]

As far as 00 or #4, either/or.

 

[Panzerschwein]

00.

I want it to reach the vitals, no matter what the tango is wearing.

 

[FL-NC]

I think more holes in a target the better- I say #4. Regarding your "scenario"- in my experience, you drop one person, 1 of 2 things generally happen- the rest either all split with quickness, or some of them return the favor. Not many people willing to charge into buckshot (or any other flying ordnance) at short range, armed or not.

 

[Shane in MT]

I keep my shotty loaded with 00 also. Decent GP load for all manner of pests in rural MT.

A plain old rifled-slug load is not a bad option either, for close range anti-personnel use.

 

[MIL-DOT]

What occurs to me here is that if 5 hostile,commited thugs intent on doing you harm, (even after not being disuaded by the sight of a pump shotgun), make it to within 10 yards of you........it may not matter what you have in the gun, cuz they probably already got the jump on you (this assumes the OP isn't a 'trained-operator-ninja-SEAL' with lightning reflexes and nerves of forged steel )

 

[Predator55]

I'll take #4 buck with my M1S90 and no more hostiles.

 

[amd6547]

I'd use #4 and street skip a couple rounds into their shins.

 

[huntsman]

I have 00 for 2 legged vermin and #4 buck for 4 legged vermin but neither are exclusive use.

 

[RAT807]

This is where you need to see which load shoots best in your gun. I bought 5 different brands of 00 Buck and the best pattern was Federals. These were not low recoil rounds. You should also know if you can handle these rounds repeatedly in a stressful situation.
The Rio brand was a close 2nd but seamed to group more to the lower right of the target with 7 of 9 pellets in a paper plate shot from 25 yards.

Let your shotgun tell you what it likes.

 

[Archangel14]

Thanks for the input. I hate to even have to think about these types of scenarios, but the way thing are nowadays makes me think I have to be a little prepared. Hope it never comes to that....

 

[Swing]

00.

I want it to reach the vitals, no matter what the tango is wearing.

^. This. #4 isn't bad, but if 00 is an option, meh, the choice is clear.

 

[Scooter22]

You wouldn't be thinking about this if it really happened. Load up with 00 buck or what you have. If you need to shoot aim well and shoot to stop.

 

[C0untZer0]

#1 Buck seems more than adequate with penetration

00.

I want it to reach the vitals, no matter what the tango is wearing.

In the IWBA denim protocol, The majority of the #4 Buckshot pellets seem to penetrate 13" to 14" with some of the pellets traveling as far as 15" a few stopping at 11"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6cmGHz-4O4

They seem to do OK in bare gel tests too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VTk_7884r8

The #1 Buck seems to penetrate to 18" in the IWBA protocol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNb2uvezzx0

I guess that would go through everything except a Carhartt jacket.

 

[jbj]

OP, with the scenario you're describing, I'd be tempted to skip a load off the ground a bit in front of two or three of them (assuming there's a safe firing background). Nasty wounds, but likely non-life threatening. A .22 will work for this as well. IIRC the angle is deflection is roughly 1/2 the angle of attack, but due to many, many factors, your mileage may vary.

Nothing says "Go away!" like a few people rolling on the ground, screaming and bleeding.


Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy

 

[LeonCarr]

00

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Jenrick]

00, either Federal Tactical Flitecontrol or Hornaday TAP reduced recoil. Either throws a bore size pattern at 10 yds, maybe hand sized at 15 yds out of my Mossberg. A nice tight pattern with 8 distinct wound channels, so that hopefully a good CoM shot will hit the spine with at least one pellet. Both of the aforementioned loads have very moderate recoil, so that followup shots and secondary targets are very rapid.

-Jenrick

 

[Dr.Rob]

Where are you all finding this #4 buckshot?

Maybe it's just because I live in Colorado but I have never seen #4 on the shelf.

 

[C0untZer0]

No coyotes in Colorado?

.

 

[shiftyer1]

I favor a couple rounds of birdshot first, for me it's the most favorable for what I generally run into like snakes, skunks, possums and things like that. After that I believe I have #4 buck.

In the buttcuff theres a couple slugs a couple double aught and A rubber buckshot round. Not sure what the rubber buck is for but I had it so.....maybe it will come in handy for a stray dog if need be?

I really want to try out those buck and ball loads.

 

[Steve C]

Either shot size will work. Either is heavy enough to kill a person at 50 yds. Based on the velocity and size of hole they make #4 is about like shooting 21 or more rounds of .22lr from a pistol at the same time. 0-0 is more like 9 rounds of .32 acp at once.

Maybe it's just because I live in Colorado but I have never seen #4 on the shelf.

You find buckshot only hunting area's usually where populated and wooded lands are intermixed like Western Washington and east coast states. Most of the places I've been in Colorado doesn't fit that type of people and hunting area mix. The buckshot doesn't carry as far as the typical deer rifle and is considered more safe where houses and people are likely a mile or less away. You can find all kinds of #4 at Cabellas and from on line sources but probably not in areas where hunting with buckshot is uncommon.