CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Exactly! Along with disparaging those that own them as well.
10/22 vs marlin 60?
- Thread starter milemaker13
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Please point to where I have "disparaged" anyone that owns one.
Again when you can't make good arguments you fall back on this garbage.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Every thread on this subject you post in is riddled with rants about irrational, "rabid fans". Yours is the easiest argument to counter because it's not based in reality. It's about like saying the small block Chevy is a POS because there's such a huge aftermarket to fix what's wrong with it. Anyone with any knowledge of the subject would question your sanity. It's an absurd argument against a universally accepted truth.
I challenge you to name one other consumer product that is considered "junk" that has a large aftermarket support to fix what's wrong with it.
I challenge you to name one other consumer product that is considered "junk" that has a large aftermarket support to fix what's wrong with it.
GunnyUSMC
Member
You forget, he more liberal then conservative. In other words a liberal. He will tell you how he feels about something and get upset with you when you disagree. He needs no facts to back up his statements, but we’ll clam that any facts you present are false, based on his limited experience and feelings.
He shows his lack of knowledge by stating that aftermarket parts are are made to fix things .
That would make the 1911, AR15 and a bunch of other guns garbage in his view.
If he would have just said that he likes the Marlin Mod 60 better, I don’t think anyone would have objected his opinion. But instead he tells how great the Mod 60 is and that the Ruger 10/22 is junk. I guess that he can’t see that he pretty much insulted most 10/22 owners.
I like the Marlin Mod 60, it’s a good gun, but it can be a pain to work on. There are a good many aftermarket parts for it, but sense there are not as many as for the 10/22, it must be better.
I have bought eight different used 10/22s and all worked great. I have bought four used Model 60s and all needed work to get them to function correctly. Know does this make me think that the model 60 is junk? No. It just lets me know that I have had better luck buying used 10/22s.
No matter which gun you prefer, enjoy it. You don’t have to put the others down just to make you feel better.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Bingo! 
maxxhavoc
Contributing Member
Well, all the disagreements aside, this thread did give me something to do at the range. So I decided to run 2 mostly-stock rifles against each other and seem just for fun, how they did. This isn't a science experiment, I was shooting a bit "off" today and sweating on my glasses so not my best day at the range. The rifles:
A 10/22 M1 Carbine clone done by Ruger. It has Mini-14 style front sight and an actual Mini 14 rear sight attached to a rail on the rifle. All of this is Ruger Standard. The first time I took it out, I didn't like the rear sight, so I drilled it out to 1/8", ground down the back a bit and put a Tech-Sights Aperture Insert in the sight. http://www.tech-sights.com/aperture-inserts/ I bought all three, only used the smallest one. I could have paid $2.50, I paid $7.50.
A Marlin 795. The blade sights sucked, so it got Tech-Sights front and rear. No shortcuts here, it got the whole $70 treatment. I haven't shot this gun much, but I had it ready to go as a backup Appleseed rifle. Never had to use it for that, though. Stock other than that.
So I shot them a bit. 10 round groups Here is the ammo and targets, all shooting done at 50 yards:
So the results:
Remington Bucket o' (not very good) bullets:
Ruger - 1.882"
Marlin - 1.902
Federal Automatch:
Ruger - 1.864
Marlin - 1.76"
CCI Blazer:
Ruger - 1.32"
Marlin - 1.87" (a really bad flyer on this one. My bad...would have been 1.365 otherwise.)
Aguila Superextra SV
Ruger - 1.185
Marlin - 1.435
Aguila Superextra HV
Ruger - 1.899
Marlin - 2.55 (without bad flyer 1.855)
I also shot a control group from my Mini-14 with some PPU ammo:
1.484, 1.276 if you drop the round on the right. From reading the Internet, I was only expecting 1 round to hit paper, tops. I got this a couple weeks ago when Walmart clearanced them Only modification is, you guessed it, Tech Sights.
My impressions of the day:
None of the guns has had enough rounds through it to "settle in." They should all benefit from that. The sights on the Marlin sucked from the factory, but the Stock 10/22 sights do as well. The Secial Edition sights are better, but still needed work. The Tech Sights are still much better than the "doctored" sights on the 10/22. If I decide to keep the baby M1 Carbine, I will get Tech Sights for those as well. Both triggers are mediocre at best. Lots of creep, too heavy.
The Marlin shot tighter groups in general, but had more flyers that made it look worse. They are both close enough that I wouldn't call one a winner. Both rifles were 100% reliable.
The only big issue is that the Ruger barrel is canted, and the front sight is in the dovetail off-center in the canted direction making it worse. Of course, they glued it in so the rifle shot left and couldn't be fixed on-range. If they hadn't glued it, it could have been fixed easily.
So it was a good day, shooting 22's is fun, it's too darn hot in the south, and both rifles are "good enough."
A 10/22 M1 Carbine clone done by Ruger. It has Mini-14 style front sight and an actual Mini 14 rear sight attached to a rail on the rifle. All of this is Ruger Standard. The first time I took it out, I didn't like the rear sight, so I drilled it out to 1/8", ground down the back a bit and put a Tech-Sights Aperture Insert in the sight. http://www.tech-sights.com/aperture-inserts/ I bought all three, only used the smallest one. I could have paid $2.50, I paid $7.50.
A Marlin 795. The blade sights sucked, so it got Tech-Sights front and rear. No shortcuts here, it got the whole $70 treatment. I haven't shot this gun much, but I had it ready to go as a backup Appleseed rifle. Never had to use it for that, though. Stock other than that.
So I shot them a bit. 10 round groups Here is the ammo and targets, all shooting done at 50 yards:
So the results:
Remington Bucket o' (not very good) bullets:
Ruger - 1.882"
Marlin - 1.902
Federal Automatch:
Ruger - 1.864
Marlin - 1.76"
CCI Blazer:
Ruger - 1.32"
Marlin - 1.87" (a really bad flyer on this one. My bad...would have been 1.365 otherwise.)
Aguila Superextra SV
Ruger - 1.185
Marlin - 1.435
Aguila Superextra HV
Ruger - 1.899
Marlin - 2.55 (without bad flyer 1.855)
I also shot a control group from my Mini-14 with some PPU ammo:
1.484, 1.276 if you drop the round on the right. From reading the Internet, I was only expecting 1 round to hit paper, tops. I got this a couple weeks ago when Walmart clearanced them Only modification is, you guessed it, Tech Sights.
My impressions of the day:
None of the guns has had enough rounds through it to "settle in." They should all benefit from that. The sights on the Marlin sucked from the factory, but the Stock 10/22 sights do as well. The Secial Edition sights are better, but still needed work. The Tech Sights are still much better than the "doctored" sights on the 10/22. If I decide to keep the baby M1 Carbine, I will get Tech Sights for those as well. Both triggers are mediocre at best. Lots of creep, too heavy.
The Marlin shot tighter groups in general, but had more flyers that made it look worse. They are both close enough that I wouldn't call one a winner. Both rifles were 100% reliable.
The only big issue is that the Ruger barrel is canted, and the front sight is in the dovetail off-center in the canted direction making it worse. Of course, they glued it in so the rifle shot left and couldn't be fixed on-range. If they hadn't glued it, it could have been fixed easily.
So it was a good day, shooting 22's is fun, it's too darn hot in the south, and both rifles are "good enough."
mpd61
Member
I haved owned both the Ruger 10/22 and Marlin/Glenfield 60 series. I do lean towards the Marlin 60, but in all honesty I probably do cuz I have Marlin 99 now.
That sucker has the most beautiful piece of black walnut ever put on a circa 1959 rimfire....and its got the longer barrel
Too! My Marlins seemed to be a bit more accurate than any of my Rugers.
That sucker has the most beautiful piece of black walnut ever put on a circa 1959 rimfire....and its got the longer barrel
Too! My Marlins seemed to be a bit more accurate than any of my Rugers.
SSN Vet
Member
1" ... and it's a raggedy hole after dumping multiple tube mags into it (while yawning) with no regard for barrel temp.
2 MOA out of the box with cheap ammo and a rifle that cost <$100 is a big win in my book
Skylerbone
Member
I service my own vehicle, to include suspension lift, spark plugs, thermostat, oil changes, air filter cleaning (K&N), brake pads & service, transfer case, and most other work. Does knowing how and performing this work make me a “pretend” mechanic? Would it behoove anyone who owns a vehicle to understand its workings and consider saving the $100/hr a “real” mechanic (or in this case gunsmith) charges?
Whether maintaining or improving my firearms, my vehicles, my home, or any other interest; I am not a “pretend” anything. Growing my own food and harvesting game does not make me a pretend farmer/butcher. Loading my own ammo does not make me a pretend munitions company. Liking the 10/22 for what it does right does not make me a “fanboi” or delusional about what the base model offers.
Do the same thing, finally got to the point where I have a "real" shop at home, including a lift and AC....I am too old to play with cars without AC....where is the fun in that.
As far a food goes, is there a difference between a gardener and a farmer....yup. Is there a difference between a mechanic and someone that does it for "fun" Yup. And in another life I worked as a mechanic and at Pontiac....perhaps that is why they folded.....but there is a difference.....not my fault you can't see the difference.
Don't say that too loud...you will suffer the beat down.
danez71
Member
That you don't want another is fine. I don't even like ARs mainly because I don't really like pistol grip rifles. But they're great guns. Still don't want one.
In defending 'an average 22 autoloader' as you just now said, what they are doing is calling out your other ludicrous statements such as they are only suitable as 'tomato stakes' and there is so much aftermarket for them only due to they all need to be 'fixed' right out of the box because they are unreliable and can't hit the inside of a barn.
Its your own comments that discredit you.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Speaking of the 795, the last time I shot one was the first time I'd handled one in many years. After reading the comments of Marlin fans about how good they were, I wanted to check, them out. At an Appleseed shoot a few years ago, I got to shoot a new one. I was stunned at what a cheaply made rifle it was. So I don't get how one can espouse the Marlin and call the Ruger a cheap piece of junk.
Good job at pointing out how absurd some of his statements have been.
The fact that you don't see the difference between his comments and yours is part of your problem.
I am pretty sure they could hit the inside of a barn if fired inside the barn....they are also pretty good at hitting the planet earth....i will give them that.
someguy2800
Member
This thread is enlightening. Apparently chevy small blocks, big blocks, and LS motors are all garbage because of their aftermarket support. I guess the real champion must be a lincoln Y block. Its so perfect nobody bothers to make parts for it. I also didn't know I was a pretend gunsmith and a pretend mechanic.
Skylerbone
Member
And a pretend hunter unless it’s your day job. That’s ok though, I’m also a pretend dish washer, cook, artist, and woodworker. Been so since my teens.
@fpgt72, it’s not my lack of understanding about the conversation, it’s your absurd, yes absurd adjectives, over generalizations, and that you refute the validity of any evidence by others as to the merits of the Ruger. Despite the overwhelming evidence against you, you refuse to admit you are wrong and you are devisive.
@fpgt72, it’s not my lack of understanding about the conversation, it’s your absurd, yes absurd adjectives, over generalizations, and that you refute the validity of any evidence by others as to the merits of the Ruger. Despite the overwhelming evidence against you, you refuse to admit you are wrong and you are devisive.
You are right....there are people that have been burned by general motors or ford and will never ever own another one....I have had this issue with the ruger, and not only the 10/22 but their crap tastic pistols from the 90's.
Shame as I really like their 77 357, and their new long range rifle, about the best deal going if you want to get into that area of shooting. One day perhaps I will plunk down my hard earned cash, the 77 is SO tempting even at the msrp of a grand....but I just can't make myself do it...I just feel it will be a deerstalker all over again and just pound itself to death.
I freely admit I have bias....others can't do that.
SwampWolf
Member
Overgeneralizing almost anything is almost always a recipe for being wrong at least part of the time. Notice I used the modifier "almost" twice.
Skylerbone
Member
Bias is one thing. We all have that, but that need not blind anyone. My most accurate .22 rifle is a Marlin, search all of my threads and you’ll find me espousing the accuracy and dependability of my Model 25N. That rifle isn’t part of this discussion however. My decades long desire to own a Papoose is not part of the discussion either, and if you check my first response to this thread I recommended the T/C copy of the 10/22.
I own Marlin, Ruger, Beretta, Savage, Mossberg, CZ, and a few other brands of .22s. I enjoy each for what it does and use what’s appropriate for the task at hand. Having delved into two Model 60s and a half dozen or so 10/22s, I find the Ruger far easier to service, far easier to improve, and more convenient to unload before driving to the next hunting spot. Those are my biases. If those points are shared by someone in the market for cheap and reliable, then they may consider my opinion. If you value the slightly trimmer Marlin, its excellent balance, or the tube magazine for ease of loading, then by all means preach it! But tomato stake or pretend gunsmith have no place in discussion of the two models in question. If you owned one and actually used one for a garden implement then snap a picture and we’ll all have a good laugh.
I own Marlin, Ruger, Beretta, Savage, Mossberg, CZ, and a few other brands of .22s. I enjoy each for what it does and use what’s appropriate for the task at hand. Having delved into two Model 60s and a half dozen or so 10/22s, I find the Ruger far easier to service, far easier to improve, and more convenient to unload before driving to the next hunting spot. Those are my biases. If those points are shared by someone in the market for cheap and reliable, then they may consider my opinion. If you value the slightly trimmer Marlin, its excellent balance, or the tube magazine for ease of loading, then by all means preach it! But tomato stake or pretend gunsmith have no place in discussion of the two models in question. If you owned one and actually used one for a garden implement then snap a picture and we’ll all have a good laugh.
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