10mm fans: factory 10mm load ideas?

[Sean Smith]

Which of the above choices would you like to see offered as a factory 10mm load?

Since I came up with them, I think they are all good.

That said, I'd like to see a 10mm self-defense load somewhere between the anemic "FBI Sissy" level and the "Full-on nuclear" stuff from Double Tap. I think a 165gr Gold Dot or Golden Saber @ 1,300 ft/sec in nickel brass with sealed primers would have alot of merit as a serious self-defense load without too-radical recoil. Because while I like the idea of 750 ft-lb loads for hunting critters, I personally would like something not quite as radical for self-defense. By my guesstimates, recoil for 165 @ 1,300 would be about the same as .45 ACP +P, but with more velocity, flatter shooting, and more kinetic energy.

My usual favorite factory ammo is Pro Load's 155gr Gold Dot @ 1,350 ft/sec, but they are out of stock and I'd personally like a bullet a smidgen heavier, just because.

 

[bradvanhorn]

How about all of them?!

I'd like to see a Winchester Ranger-T, either 180gr or 165gr, at ~1300+ fps. And, I'd like some practice ammo that doesn't cost $15-$20 per 50/box.

 

[Sean Smith]

And, I'd like some practice ammo that doesn't cost $15-$20 per 50/box.

Well, there IS a source for that.

http://www.georgia-arms.com/pistol.htm

I'd just like another one.

Another idea I forgot: S&W 610-only, long-OAL super hot 10mm revolver hunting loads. If you can get a 200gr hardcast WFN up to 1,300 from a 4.6" Glock 20, what can you do if you load it long and launch it from a 6.5" revolver?

 

[agtman]

Just F.Y.I., but regarding the 180gn XTP load, Ron Reed of Reed Ammo & Research (RAR) posted that he was loading the 180gn XTP @ 1250fps/624fpe. This was a while back over on GT's 10Ring.

 

[hksw]

Voted for all but 'Other'. Missed the check box before hitting vote..

For 'Other', I would say the original Norma load.

 

[Sean Smith]

For 'Other', I would say the original Norma load.

Well, there were two, actually.

200gr @ 1,200 ft/sec was the spec for the FMJ-FP that Norma sold. Cor-Bon matches that load exactly, and Texas Ammo and Double Tap both exceed it.

The other was a primitive 170gr hollowpoint @ some insane speed. Double-Tap has a much superior bullet to the one Norma had (165gr Golden Saber) going 1,425 ft/sec.

 

[mattf7184]

I wanna see Double Tap do some work on a 10mm using the Barnes X bullet that Corbon is using in their .40DPX 140gr hehehe

 

[ny32182]

Since I owned .40 before 10mm, I've always wondered why there would be both 155 and 165 grain Gold Dots offered, especially since they are exactly the same bullet style. I don't see why 10 grains would make a difference. Since the 155's are usually loaded to carry more energy, thats what I've gone with in both .40 and 10mm. Maybe some of the 165 guys could shed some light here as to why you'd pick 165 over 155?

McNett's 155 grain load is his only round I've shot so far, but I don't find the recoil to be really out of hand. Its a longer, harder push than a hot loaded .40, but I don't find the muzzle flip to be any worse. That might have to do with the fact that I'm shooting a 1006. Might be a different story out of a G29.

 

[auldpharght]

"Real" 10mm Ammunition

10 MM (Express). One of our most popular loads are our 10mm (Express). Our goal was to provide a full line of 10mm loads with the power the 10mm was designed for. We have chose the Nosler 135 Grain JHP loaded to 1450 fps for 630 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle; a 165 Grain JHP loaded to 1350 fps for 668 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle; and the Hornady 200 Grain FMJ-FP loaded to 1250 fps for 694 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle.

As a Note, it seems there may have been some confusion over our introduction of these loads last year. These are 10mm loads loaded to what we describe as our "Express" velocities -- It is NOT a new cartridge. This ammunition can be fired in any modern 10mm handgun, in good condition, and manufactured to handle the maximum levels that the 10mm was originally designed for.

http://www.texas-ammo.com/ a source y'all forgot.

Auldpharght

 

[agtman]

Actually, ....


... anyone doing serious (re)Search into high-performance 10mm loads would have discovered Texas Ammo's line-up long before this thread (TA calls its full strength loads, 10mm "Express").

A while back, I reviewed TA's 200gn loads and found them to be exactly as advertised - that is, powerful, accurate and reliable:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=84117

This was before Double Tap exploded on the scene with its extensive line-up of high-power 10mm loads.

The way I see it, both TA and DT offer great 10mm ammo and we 10mm shooters should be appreciative that more ammo-makers are now making 10mm loads using premium bullets leaving the muzzle at or beyond the original Norma specs.

Also, Sean's right. The original Norma 170 HP was "primitive" - which is to say, hard-edged and virtually non-expanding. In terms of today's bullet technology, we're light-years ahead with the Noslers, Speer Gold Dots, Remington Golden Sabers and others.

What most people miss is that Norma's "middle-weight" 170 HP load, and not the heavier 200gn FMJ, was intended for police and civilian use on the streets in the mid-1980s. (At Cooper's insistence, Norma developed the 200gn FMJ - @ 1200fps - as a possible future military pistol round, when in the very early 80s the U.S. military signaled it was going to dump the .45acp and was considering other options).

At first Norma's 170gn HP did 1400fps/740fpe, but was later throttled back to 1300fpe/638fpe.

Personally, I prefer a carry load with a high quality HP, like the Gold Dots or Golden Sabers, of at least 165gns (170gns or 175gns is better, IMO) somewhere in that original velocity range, between 1300fps-1400fps.

A lot of 10mm fans like the "light-n-fast" 135gn, 150gn & 155gn 10mm HPs for defensive purposes (e.g., Georgia Arms' 155gn Gold Dot HP @ 1375fps/651fpe). There are a number of good loads in those bullet-weights, but for the possible range of shooting scenarios I might encounter they're a bit light. YMMV.

I also like the 180gn 10mm HPs loads, which seem to have become ubiquitous.

 

[denfoote]

You know, if I could get my hands on cheap practice rounds, I'd be able to get good with that G29 of mine!!

Bought at Wallyworld would be nice as well!!!

 

[MCNETT]

Any of these suggestions are easily done.......if the demand presents itself. We have expanded to 12 different loads specifically in 10mm AND loaded the way they should be. We expanded from 4 loads to 12 loads because we listen to our customers, chime in and you will be heard. I regularly check in here at the High Road.
-Mike

 

[lcarr]

What I would like to see is the return of the old Winchester Black Talon load, 200gr@990fps, hopefully with a bullet that's been updated with the changes that have been done to the rest of their Ranger Talon bullets. This load was a little hotter than anything available in .40S&W, yet still extremely controllable in a full size, full weight gun. It even worked well in smaller, lighter 10mms like the Glock 29.

Note that a 200gr 10mm bullet has better sectional density than a 230gr .45 ACP. It's also interesting to note that Browning's original .45 ACP load was 200gr at 900-1000fps.

Lincoln

 

[WonderNine]

A 200gr. @ 1300 fps would be nice

 

[Sean Smith]

Any of these suggestions are easily done.......if the demand presents itself.

You mean you'd actually do a less-than-utter-maximum 10mm load?

165 @ 1,300 ft/sec is in the lead (aside from cheap bulk ammo). It would be funny if D-T introduced a "Lite Reduced Sissy" load that still had 600+ ft-lbs at the muzzle...

 

[Moparmike]

I dont understand why you couldnt use the 180gr XTP for self defense. I wouldnt hesitate to use those or the 200gr XTP's that DoubleTap has.


I plan on ordering some 180gr Golden Sabers for defense. Oooh.

 

[jeff-10]

Some winchester white box 10mm and some sig and cz pistols chambered in 10 would really give the cartridge a great revival. Thats why I voted the cheap bulk. I don't believe another 10mm defensive or hunting load would do anything else for the 10 at this point.

 

[JimC]

I voted for the 180 gr. @ 1300 fps but would also like to see a quality 200 gr. bullet at an honest 1200 + fps with safe pressures.

I can't hit that mark with any load combo that I've loaded, even in a 5.5" Bar-Sto bbl. in my G20. Close but no cigar.

 

[Sean Smith]

but would also like to see a quality 200 gr. bullet at an honest 1200 + fps with safe pressures.

There are several of those available, actually. Cor-Bon, Double Tap, TAC...

 

[MCNETT]

How about a 200gr bullet at an honest 1300fps from a 4.6"bbl? DoubleTap has three 200gr loadings that are at or above 1250fps from a 4.6"bbl AND under 36,000psi!
-Mike

 

[fastbolt]

I voted "other", but only because I'd personally like to see some new bullet development occur with the 10mm, loaded to its potential, using a heavier bonded bullet design.

My primary choice would be something in the 200gr BHP 1250-1300fps range, with a second choice in the 175gr BHP 1350-1375fps range.

I'm really pleased to see the newer loadings being offered by the smaller, innovative ammunition manufacturers, but I'd really like to see some new bullet development ... and production increase ... from the major ammunition manufacturers. Every time I've broached the subject of a new 10mm pistol with folks at Ruger and S&W, I keep being reminded that the commercial ammunition sales figures from the major manufacturers just don't seem to offer a sufficient potential market to justify the R&D and production costs to offer new pistols chambered in this caliber.

 

[roo_ster]

If you could get more readily-available 10mm target fodder on the cheap, I bet more folks would go for 10mm pistols. "Wolf 10mm 180gr FMJ" would be music to my ears.

One of the reasons I went with a .45ACP chambering on my last purchase was the availability of sub-$7/50 Wolf .45ACP and sub-$20/100 Winchester White Box Wallly World Value-Paks. I figured if I wanted 10mm power, I was a recoil & firing pin spring away from .45 Super.

 

[Moparmike]

I just wish I could find Blazer in 10mm cheap. My witness loves teh stuff, and seems to absolutely hate UMC. I have yet to get two successive rounds to chamber.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Question:

All of the 200 grain 10mm loads seem to be hardcast or FMJ, designed for maximum penetration.

Do they make a 200 grain JHP bullet? 1200 FPS is PLENTY of velocity for reliable expansion; a 200 grain JHP or even soft point, moving at 1200 feet per second, would make a pretty decent load, I should think.

Or, if you really want to get nuts, make 10mm a groundhog gun. Sabot it down to .223, using regular .223 bullets. Sort of like a poor man's .224 Boz.

 

[jeff-10]

I just wish I could find Blazer in 10mm cheap. My witness loves teh stuff, and seems to absolutely hate UMC. I have yet to get two successive rounds to chamber.

Thats to bad, the UMC is my favorite load for my 1076 and ive had great results with it, relatively mild recoil and decent accuracy. But the 1076 seems to feed anything even cheap reloads so reliability doesn't seem to be issue with it. You may wanna try midway usa or cheaper than dirt for some blazer thats where i get my UMC for 16/box.