10mm fans: factory 10mm load ideas?

[agtman]

200gn 10mm loads ...


Well, for Wondernine ("200gns @ 1300fps"), DT has released a 200gn Hardcast WFNGC @ 1300fps/75fpe, but it's specified as a hunting load.

As for a 200gn Hollow-Point load, yeah, Hornady makes a 200gn XTP-HP bullet which DT and Texas Ammo both load to 1250fps.

For what I've seen, CorBon still has a 200gn HP load @ 1200fps (they don't specify who makes the bullet). Check their website, they were selling it on "close-out" at $12.70 per box of 20rds.

Corbon also sells a 200gn "Penetrator" (Soft-point) load @ 1200fps. But, again, this is specified for hunting use.

Personally, I'd like to see Speer develop a 200gn 10mm Gold Dot HP (maybe in conjunction with DT ), to be loaded to about 1150fps. Aside from being a high-quality HP, that velocity for a 200gn GD should entail sufficient penetration for most SD scenarios.

But remember, Norma's 200gn FMJ @ 1200fps was designed (and promoted by Jeff Cooper) as a "combat" load for a military battlefield environment, where nobody cares about "overpenetration" issues. Powerful and flat-shooting, that load increased the lethality range of typical handgun engagements to 50yds-75yds or beyond, depending on the shooter's training and abilities.

Cooper saw this as bettering the range of the .45acp, which, at the time, the U.S. military was indicating it was going to dump anyway. In a gun (the Bren Ten) having a higher mag capacity than the 7- or 8-rd 1911, it was a very attractive proposition. This is why one variant of the BT was designated the "Special Forces" model. Cooper (and Dornaus & Dixon) wanted to attract the military's interest, or at least a few of its branches.

For police use on the streets, and for civilian SD, the 170gn 10mm HP - a "middle-weight" bullet - was developed. It was initially loaded to 1400fps on the theory that this would enhance expansion, in addition to penetrating the vitals of BGs, especially those in a "drug-enhanced" state of activity.

Well, frankly, in the real world Norma's 170gn HP sucked. It expanded only rarely and then very little. Most times it acted like a 170gn FMJ when the smallish cavity clogged-up from target material after impact. But that was a bullet issue, not a velocity issue. A poorly-designed HP sucks at just about any speed.

Today, that situation's changed. We've got a number of quality choices in 10mm/.40cal HPs, which was not the case 21 years ago when the cartridge first arrived. That's always been one of the problems in maximizing the benefits from the 10mm's huge power curve: bullet technology.

Winchester's STHP and Federal's Hydra-shok were certainly improvements over the Norma 170gn HP. But what we have now - from Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, Speer, Remington (Golden Sabres), etc - is much, much better, IMO.

 

[Correia]

I voted for cheap plinking ammo. For me that would kill two birds with one stone, buy it to shoot once, and then a cheap source of brass for reloading.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Are people overestimating Jeff Cooper's involvement with the Bren 10? From what I've read in his commentaries, he doesn't seem especially thrilled with 10mm and doesn't claim to have had a whole lot to do with its design.

I think I remember reading where he specifically said people think he had a lot more to do with the Bren 10 than he actually did, but I'm not sure.

 

[KB180]

180gr. Golden Saber (Bonded) would be my choice. Maybe someday soon?

 

[agtman]

Actaully, it's only in Cooper's recent statements that he's distanced himself from the Bren Ten (calling it "fragile," I believe), but not the cartridge itself. His comments are positive when asked about the 10mm.

Cooper's views on the 10mm, and the BT, are best expressed in his early articles, such as in the 1982 Gun Digest, the 1985 Guns Illustrated and a few others. He also discussed the cartridge in a couple of articles in Guns & Ammo mag during this same time frame.

If you're genuinely interested in the history of the cartridge, a good place for looking up these primary sources and other early reference material on the 10mm or BT pistol is NordicGK3's 10mm website:

http://bren-ten.com

Apologies to Sean. Didn't mean to hijack your thread.

 

[HARLEYCOLT]

If you like the HOT STUFF then you need a 77gr at 2420fps from a 3.78" barrel

It works great in my DE haven't clocked it out of it yet:banghead:

 

[gunfan]

10mm ammo

1) I believe that some 155 grain CCI-Speer Gold Dot hollow point ammunition driven to at LEAST 1400 fps. Violent, yet controlled exapnsion. This should take care of the most persistent felon, yet avoid the overpenetration problem.

2) The second would be a 200 grain hollow point loaded just as Mike McNett loads them. Hotter than the proverbial hinges of perdition!

3) Mike also put out some great practice ammunition as well! (180 grains)

JMHO,

Scott

 

[ny32182]

McNett doesn't sell anything cheap enough that I'd order in bulk for practice (GA does though... 10 bucks per 50 for 180gr fmj).

I have some of McNett's 155gr Gold Dots, which he says do 1500+ fps out of a 5" barrel. Very nice.

 

[patentnonsense]

I just got my first 10 (a Megastar), and naturally ordered a "case" (i.e. 500 rds) from doubletap.com - ayayay that stuff is exPENsive!! I can see how they have nice personal defense bullets, but suppose I just want to shoot??

Remington 180g sells for $13 on the internet, but it feels a little wimpy -
can anyone suggest which readily-available factory load is less wimpy?

And somebody mentioned the GA plinking ammo - that's reloads, right?
Is that the best bet for full-power practice loads? Doubletap's 180g match loads are $290 a case, shipped - are they worth it?

And BTW I was surprised to find that the 230g "equalizer" from doubletap.com wouldn't cycle my action - I guess the double projectile may be taking up too much powder room - I'll save that for the 610 I hope to get someday!

Eventually I need to get around to reloading - but right now I'm still accumulating once-fired brass.

 

[Sean Smith]

Is that the best bet for full-power practice loads? Doubletap's 180g match loads are $290 a case, shipped - are they worth it?

I don't think it is a question of if it is worth it, so much as if anybody can afford to shoot it in quantity. Best bet is to either reload, or shoot the Georgia Arms stuff for practice and save the Double Tap for hunting, etc.

At as little as $160/1,000 + S/H, you can shoot 10mm for the same or even slightly less than most are shooting .45 ACP. Sometimes you can find CCI Blazers or Federal American Eagle for around $10/50 too.

 

[JimC]

Truth be told, if you like to shoot the 10mm a lot as I do and don't have deep pockets for ammo costs, reloading your 10mm ammo is the only way to go.

I'm sure DT ammo does what they say but, a 200 gr. XTP @ $23.95 for 50 rounds wouldn't allow me much trigger time.

My last time out with my Delat, I put 550 rounds of assorted ammo thru it.

I might not be getting the velocities advertised by the hot 10mm loading outfits but I'm in a respectable velocity range for a whole lot less money and a little less wear and tear on my DE and G20.

I can load 1,000 rounds of 200 gr. FMJ practice ammo (National bullet) @ 1145 fps + in my 5" DE for $121.00 or $6.05 a box of 50. When I consider I already have the brass, Norma, Federal and Starline, on hand already, that's a nice price.

I can load 1,000 rounds of 175 gr. Winchester STHP @ a respectable 1300 fps for $188.00. Again, brass on hand. $9.40 a box of 50 for good "social ammo".

Because I can't find a "bulk" price on the Hornady 200 gr. XTP-HP, 500 rounds of that runs just around $100.00 to load and I can only get around 1150 fps but it's not too shabby a load.

I am not calculating shipping costs in theses figures because some components are purchased locally and some are Internet buys but it balances out because I would have to pay shipping on ammo purchased over the Internet also. I've always looked at shipping as part of doing business, one way or another.

The question always comes up from those considering getting into reloading for the first time..."how much will I save?"

Loading your own 10mm Auto ammo is one round that you will save $'s on and enjoy your shooting that much more. Loading costs will vary. You may save even more if you find better bullet prices, especially if you are fortunate enough to have guns shows in your immediate area.

I would suggest a Dillon 550B set up for the 10mm/.40 and have fun loading and shooting.

 

[patentnonsense]

Thanks - I've been saving brass, and waffling about whether reloading in .45 is really worth it, but it sounds like a no-brainer in 10mm (and in .44).

Hey, now I've got an excuse!!

 

[turbonatr]

If Georgia Arms loaded a 165gr. Gold Dot at an honest 1325fps (1250fps from a G29) and offered it in their Shear Power Plus line of ammunition at $13.75 per 50, i'd be in heaven. That would allow me to practice with what I carry and be able to put 500+ rounds down range during a session without chewing my trigger finger to death as my G29 likes to do. The true full-power ammo from DT is just fine (not to mention a 10mm fan's dream come true) in my G20, 1026 and Delta Elite during long range sessions, but I prefer a less-than-nuke load in my G29 which gets carried more often than the rest. A 165gr. Gold Dot at the above mentioned velocity would be just the ticket.

Are you listening, Georgia Arms?

 

[agtman]

10mm Practice fodder ...


As far as I know, DT sells their 180gn FMJ practice load for $145 for a 500-rd "case." At 1250fps, it's a good practice load for those who favor the hotter stuff for CCW or duty use.

Someone mentioned the 180gn FMJ practice load from GA. Yeah, it's essentially a "factory" reload, using previously-fired brass, whereas DT uses all new components. And that's one reason GA loads it to only 1100fps. OTOH, at $190 for a 1000-rd case (19-cents per rd), it's not bad for plinking or range use, and certainly compares favorably cost-wise with any number of .45acp practice rounds.

Other options in 10mm practice loads include:

* Remington's UMC 180gn FMJ load @ 1150fps - a bit hotter than GA and this load uses all new components;

* CCI/Blazer's 200gn FMJ load @ 1050fps - a decent low-cost load using aluminum cases. If it's the brass you're after, you're SOL. But most times I've seen the 10mm Blazers running around $10-$11 a box. Watch Natchez for deals on the 10mm Blazers, especially by the case price (1000-rds).

* Reed Ammo & Research (RAR). This guy advertises his 10mm ammo on the GT's 10Ring. Do a Search for his posts, as he lists a lot of different 10mm loads. Most are pretty toasty. For a practice/training load, he's selling a 155gn FMJ @ 1380fps/655fpe. He states this uses once-fired brass. Can't recall the exact case price, but it worked out to something like $10 or so per 50-rds, IIRC. Best to check his posts on the 10Ring for sure. Also, he advertised a 135gn Rainier TMJ-FP load @ 1500fps. So for 10mm fans who like their loads "light-n-fast," RAR offers these two.

 

[ny32182]

The handgun ammo is listed on GA's website in three different sections, iirc... canned heat, pistol ammo, and shear power plus. The 10mm is in the "pistol ammo" section. Is everyone sure this is reloaded? I thought only canned heat was. Not that it makes that much difference to me; I don't reuse the brass. (yet)

Turbonatr, GA already offers exactly what you just mentioned, except they list it with 155gr instead of 165.

 

[turbonatr]

I know. I prefer the 165gr. to 155gr. in 10mm.

 

[ny32182]

Just curious... why 165 over 155? I can't imagine that the ten grains makes much penetration difference, and the 155's usually carry more energy.

 

[turbonatr]

The 10mm Auto was designed around bullets on the heavier side with better sectional density. The 165s typically go about 2" deeper (comparing the same bullet design) but still retain very good velocity and are flat shooting (which I appreciate since I do a lot of long range handgunning, out to 200 yards). I think the 180s in the 1300fps range are too much for self defense against humans as they typically exceed 18" of penetration. 180s about 100fps slower are about perfect for self defense. They run around 14" of penetration and are very controllable. I think the 165s split the difference between the 155s and 180s. They allow 10 more grains than the 155s for a little better penetration but offer more velocity than the 180s without over-penetrating.

Bottom line, just personal preference. I would NOT feel under-gunned carrying a 155gr. Gold Dot at 1350. But a 165gr. at the same velocity is so much the better while still remaining controllable enough for accurate weak hand shooting in smaller 10mm pistols like the G29 and compact Witness.

 

[turbonatr]

BTW, for those interested, Reed's Ammo and Research offers a 165gr. Gold Dot at 1330fps for under $23 per 50.

Here is a link to their ammo line-up.

https://secure3.websitecomplete.com/reed1911/shop/showDept.asp?dept=3