I was reading the thread about using a 357 magnum carbine for deer hunting and I was surprised to see so many people say a 357 carbine is marginal at best for deer. I'm just curious if you guys feel the same way about the 10mm from a handgun or carbine with it's inferior ballistics compared to a 357 carbine.
10mm for deer hunting
- Thread starter Harry1969
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Charles S
Member
I would personally treat the 10mm in a handgun just like I do a 357. I basically limit the range to less than 50 yards. That is probably overly cautious, but..... I would rather be cautious than make an animal suffer. I am not aware of any, easily obtainable, 10 mm carbines. I am not sure how much one would gain.
In the 41 mag, 44 mag, and hand loaded 45 long Colt.... I feel I limit the gun. With open sights I continue to limit myself to 50 yards. With a scope I think 100 yards if you are skilled enough is not unreasonable.
I treat my 45 Super like a 357 or a 10 mm.
In the 41 mag, 44 mag, and hand loaded 45 long Colt.... I feel I limit the gun. With open sights I continue to limit myself to 50 yards. With a scope I think 100 yards if you are skilled enough is not unreasonable.
I treat my 45 Super like a 357 or a 10 mm.
JTQ
Member
It probably depends on where you are hunting deer.
ApacheCoTodd
member
Both work quite well
Right load, right region/deer and right range.
Gotta really know the limitations to be utilized responsibly.
Not gonna be shooting Arizona Mulees across the vale.
Those bitty things back east in a stalk or stand situation though... sure.
Right load, right region/deer and right range.
Gotta really know the limitations to be utilized responsibly.
Not gonna be shooting Arizona Mulees across the vale.
Those bitty things back east in a stalk or stand situation though... sure.
JTQ
Member
You probably mean in the south.
Damon555
Member
I've actually seen what a 10mm 180 grain XTP can do to a North Dakota whitetail. My brother shot one with his 1911 @ about 75 yards broadside in the shoulder. It worked just fine. Put one in the boiler room and it'll work fine.
Same experience. I leveled a doe with a G20SF w/ 6" LWD barrel using a hand loaded 180gr XTP @ 1300fps. The bullet was not recovered.
tipoc
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10 mm is very good on deer, hogs and black bear out to the ranges you'd use a handgun at and reliably hit what you aim at.
.357 out of a handgun is very good on deer with the proper bullet. A 158 gr or 180 gr. bullet of proper construction will do quite well.
The .357 will do as well as the 30-30 on any deer out to about 100 yards or so.
Take a look here...
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
tipoc
.357 out of a handgun is very good on deer with the proper bullet. A 158 gr or 180 gr. bullet of proper construction will do quite well.
The .357 will do as well as the 30-30 on any deer out to about 100 yards or so.
Take a look here...
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
tipoc
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Every time I see a .357 Magnum vs Deer thread I always ask, when did deer grow armor plated skin? The .357 Magnum is the premier man stopper in the streets and deer are no harder to kill than men. Why is the .357 Magnum marginal for deer. Just like in SD you need to use the proper bullet for hunting and stay within your comfort zone distance wise. If shooting a Carbine it's a very good combination for deer even though we all know there are better choices. I just don't know when deer became hard to kill, 300 Win Mags because the medium hunting cartridge and rifles chambered in the 30-06 became Varmint rifles?
IMO the same holds true for the 10mm. With the proper ammo it will take deer and do so cleanly if the hunter does his job correctly.
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=125_178&product_id=122
IMO the same holds true for the 10mm. With the proper ammo it will take deer and do so cleanly if the hunter does his job correctly.
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=125_178&product_id=122
guyfromohio
Member
@archangel.... 'Cause man doesn't haul a$$ into the woods and camouflage itself in a leaf pile to die alone. I treat handgun hunting like bow-hunting...know your shot is less likely to drop it on the spot and know that a 4:00 PM shot might mean a 9:00PM return to camp.
ApacheCoTodd
member
When I hear fellas poo-pooing HH (handgun hunting), I usually figure I'm talking to one of those sniper type hunters who throw multiple shots in the direction of brown&furry.
Some people simply are personally incapable of HH, some do not have the opportunity given terrain and deer particulars and some do not yet possess the patience or skill to pull it off.
It's all; skill, range and equipment selection.
Can't get away with just shooting in the direction of a deer as so many do with long arms.
Given that .41 Special/Magnum is the one I learned to hunt with, I'm happy to say that with years behind me and the development of cartridges like the 10 - it presents as a very valid and responsible hunting round where applicable.
The benefits of HH over long gun are many: Holster carry, smaller vehicle security issues, cheaper marksmanship training, simplified firearm maintenance, you're already where the deer was hit should trailing be an issue.... so many once you begin.
Where HH is an alternative, I can only really come up with one advantage for the longarm - your effective range/radius is dramatically extended though that's not always the case nor is it always a true advantage.
HH, I've dug it for years,
.41: got me not a few mid-large deer
10mm: deer and below a couple three times now, Coyote and Pecari
.357: one pissy little Florida deer (mighta been Georgia...) coyote, hog and one turkey.
9x23: coyote, pecari, feral dog and a few pot stuffers.
For my part - I still tend to lean towards enjoying the revolvers more than the semi-autos. Seems more "pure" to me. Probably though, it's because of how I started.
The two cartridges are practically ballistic twins from a handgun and with the same weight bullets a 357 magnum can do anything a 10mm can up to 30 yards. Beyond that and the 357 with it's greater ballistic coefficient will retain more energy because 40 cal bullets lose energy so fast. That's why the 10mm is not a good carbine round. I just don't understand how a 357 is seen as marginal and the 10mm is held in such high regard on these internet forums.
By the way the thread I referenced in my first post was on another forum and I apologize for that.
By the way the thread I referenced in my first post was on another forum and I apologize for that.
Damon555
Member
The advent of the internet is primarily responsible for this phenomenon......Too many folks trying to give advice on matters that they have no experience with except for what they've read on the internet......
Ed Ames
Member
I think 10mm enjoys a positive reputation because it is the most acceptable hunting cartridge available in conventional (short recoil) semi-auto pistols without any tricks (like the .460 Rowling muzzle brake). If you need to move significantly up the power curve you are probably stuck with a gas operated monster or a revolver.
.357, on the other hand, is on the low end of the curve for revolvers or revolver-cartridge carbines. It isn't the lowest power magnum round but it is overshadowed by .41, .44, .45, .454, et cetera.
On an absolute scale the 10mm and .357 are about the same. On a relative basis the 10 is amongst the best cartridges available (for a semi-auto pistol) while .357 is arguably among the worst commonly available (not counting .32 H&R mag or the like) center fire (revolver) hunting rounds.
That doesn't mean they won't both work just fine.
.357, on the other hand, is on the low end of the curve for revolvers or revolver-cartridge carbines. It isn't the lowest power magnum round but it is overshadowed by .41, .44, .45, .454, et cetera.
On an absolute scale the 10mm and .357 are about the same. On a relative basis the 10 is amongst the best cartridges available (for a semi-auto pistol) while .357 is arguably among the worst commonly available (not counting .32 H&R mag or the like) center fire (revolver) hunting rounds.
That doesn't mean they won't both work just fine.
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Tipoc, upon what do you base this information? While I do not doubt that a good full-power .357 load will effectively kill a deer at handgun ranges with a well placed shot, I hardly consider it equal to a 30-30 at any range, much less 100 yd. The Hornady LeverEvolution round is devastating on deer at handgun ranges, I have taken several inside 30 yds. None have made it out of sight, if they moved. Don't mean to get off topic of the OP, but if by "do as well" you mean dead is dead then I agree. But ballistically, they are not on the same planet.
Hornady LeverEvolution 30-30 160gr @100yd: 2150 fps, 1643 ft-lb
Buffalo Bore 158gr .357 @ Muzzle: 1475 fps, 753 ft-lb
All that being said, I would prefer the 10mm to .357. Especially, if it is handloaded.
Those numbers you posted for the 30-30 and the 357 are not on the same planet either.
YOU post 30-30 numbers from a rifle and compare the to a 357 out of a pistol.
Out of a carbine (18 in) I can get 1800fps with a 180grn 357, that is in the same ballpark as a 30-30.
I usually load my 180grn XTP's to under 1700fps so the bullet stays together, but that is still devastating on whitetail.
As for the 10mm, the idea of some guy in a deerstand with his Glock makes me cringe.
Ed Ames
Member
Why?
At 75-100 yards a 357 from a carbine will do anything a 30-30 will do at the same ranges. 30-30 is more effective at longer ranges.
In my opinion 10mm is too much for a self defense round. For deer or black bear, with the best loads is at least as good as 357. And closer to 44 magnum than most understand. When you look at 44 or 357 mag ballistics taken from 8" barrels they are impressive. Fired from 4" barrels 44 mag barely beats 10mm and 357 won't equal it. If a 44 mag from a 4" barrel is adequate, full power 10mm loads are going to be close. And most people vastly under estimate 10mm loads. The best loads will shoot a 200 gr bullet at 1300 fps from a 4.5" barrel.
I don't see 357 as marginal at all, but you are looking at published ballistics numbers, not real numbers. As said earlier. The published numbers for magnum revolver rounds are taken from 8" barrels. (which almost no one actually uses). 10mm and all semi auto rounds publish numbers taken from 4-5" barrels. (which is exactly the length used on the guns) If you are actually shooting 357 or 44 from an 8" barrel, 44 handily beats 10mm. And 357 and 10mm are a virtual tie. But... if you shoot the magnum rounds from 4" or shorter barrels 44 mag and 10mm are much closer. 10mm starts to show a real advantage over 357, but 357 is not marginal. Still very effective.
Take a look at 357, 44, and 10mm and compare how much barrel length matters.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html
Ed Ames
Member
Remember when looking at bbti that they measure barrel length from muzzle to breach face, which is standard for semi-auto and single shots but not for revolvers. A 4" barrel .357 is at least 5" and probably closer to 6" in bbti terms.
Using "ballistics by the inch" in reference to magnum revolver performance has you mis-informed, no 10mm round will come anywhere close to a full 44 mag out of a "true" 4in 44 mag revolver. BBI incorporates the overall length of the cartridge into the barrel length ( so their 4in data is actually less than 2.5in in a real revolver) nobody really hunts with a snubby!
BBI is simply a inaccurate reference for revolver ballistics, it certainly has you confused.
GooseGestapo
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I've killed deer with .357mag, .40S&W and 10mm.
Use a decent bullet and put it where it needs to go, and they just WORK.
The .40 and 10mm create wound channels (with the bullets I used) that look just like those from a .30/30 with proper bullets (ie: 150-170gr Corlok's, Sierra or Hornady Spts-rn and fn).
I've used 155gr Silver-tips and XTP's in .40, 180 and 200gr XTP's as well as 175gr SilverTips in 10mm.
Many different bullets in .357 (125gr Issue Winchester JHP's factory loads), 158gr JHP and JSP's, and assorted 155-170gr cast swc and swc-hp.
Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement...
fwiw; last week I "clipped" the belly of a 110lb doe with a 200gr FTX from a Marlin .338ME (handload at chrono'd 2,600fps!) with a 3x scope, at the "longish" range of 70 feet !!!. I simply "jerked" the shot.
Amazing.... she ran off !!! Even my dog couldn't find a trace or trail...
A miss is a miss !!!
I was in a very awkward position shooting from the off hand (right for me... I shoot long-guns left-handed) standing backwards in a ladder stand. (deer came up behind me, down -wind and were blowing at me...).
Use a decent bullet and put it where it needs to go, and they just WORK.
The .40 and 10mm create wound channels (with the bullets I used) that look just like those from a .30/30 with proper bullets (ie: 150-170gr Corlok's, Sierra or Hornady Spts-rn and fn).
I've used 155gr Silver-tips and XTP's in .40, 180 and 200gr XTP's as well as 175gr SilverTips in 10mm.
Many different bullets in .357 (125gr Issue Winchester JHP's factory loads), 158gr JHP and JSP's, and assorted 155-170gr cast swc and swc-hp.
Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement...
fwiw; last week I "clipped" the belly of a 110lb doe with a 200gr FTX from a Marlin .338ME (handload at chrono'd 2,600fps!) with a 3x scope, at the "longish" range of 70 feet !!!. I simply "jerked" the shot.
Amazing.... she ran off !!! Even my dog couldn't find a trace or trail...
A miss is a miss !!!
I was in a very awkward position shooting from the off hand (right for me... I shoot long-guns left-handed) standing backwards in a ladder stand. (deer came up behind me, down -wind and were blowing at me...).
JR24
Member
10mm would be plenty fine for the ranges I would handgun hunt (50 yards and in, dang these eyes). I've debated doing it myself, but I'd have to find a longer barrel for my RIA Tactical, and that's more work than just grabbing my .357 mag.
Its almost like my wife hasn't been murdering deer with a .243 for years and years.
Though, I will admit that I'm going to take a whitetail with a .300 win mag this year (hopefully). Bought it for Moose and the hunting didn't work out before I had to move back to the lower 48, gotta use it for something. Then it'll be back to the .308 or .30-06.
Its almost like my wife hasn't been murdering deer with a .243 for years and years.
Though, I will admit that I'm going to take a whitetail with a .300 win mag this year (hopefully). Bought it for Moose and the hunting didn't work out before I had to move back to the lower 48, gotta use it for something. Then it'll be back to the .308 or .30-06.
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