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10mm or 357 mag

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by IMTHDUKE, Jul 18, 2011.

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  1. IMTHDUKE

    IMTHDUKE Member

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    What are the general balistic characteristics of these two rds....10mm vs 357 mag? Which would be considered the stronger rd?
     
  2. mes227

    mes227 Member

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    The 10mm is a slightly more robust round. Compare these ballistics for factory loads:
    .357Mag
    125gn bullet
    1,400 fps muzzle vel
    545 ft-lbs muzzle energy
    8.9 TKO (muzzle knock out)

    10mm
    135gr
    1,400 fps
    590 ft-lbs
    10.8 TKO
     
  3. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

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    se fla i love claymores 01/sot
    very close,357 ammo more readily available,and cheaper.can also shoot 38 for plinking
     
  4. IMTHDUKE

    IMTHDUKE Member

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    May I ask...what is muzzle knock out?
     
  5. loadedround

    loadedround Member

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    Guys, I've been reloading for the 10 mm ever since I purchased the first Delta Elite avalable in my area sometime in the mid 1980's. Having said that, the 10 mm cartridge is a handloaders dream. You may fire some of the original Norma loads (or hot reloads) approaching the power of the 41 Mag or load it down to about standard 9mm velocities, or somewhere in between. The 10 mm is my favorite pistol cartrdge and I'm running two Delta Elites now. BTw I own a shoot sevaral 357's and also think it's a great revolver cartridge.
     
  6. tinygnat219

    tinygnat219 Member

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    As much as I am a fan of the 10MM, especially as an Auto cartridge, I think the .357 Magnum has several advantages with the first one being: Availability. I can go into any Wal-Mart, or Sporting Goods store that sells ammunition and I'm pretty sure I can walk out with a box of .357 Magnum. With 10MM it's harder to do.
    The advantage of the 10MM is that I can throw 16 rounds in a Glock 20 and have roughly the same weight as a fully loaded .357 revolver. There are only 2 autos that I am aware of that carry the .357 Magnum: Coonan .357 1911, and the Desert Eagle. Both are large and only carry 7 rounds.

    With careful planning and some forethought, I'd go with 10MM in a Glock 20because you can carry a powerful round in a platform with capacity.

    With a busy schedule, and being forgetful, I'd probably go with the .357 revolver and hit the first Wal-mart / gun store I ran across looking for appropriate ammo.

    So it's not just cartridge comparison, one should also look at the platform.
     
  7. highlander 5

    highlander 5 Member

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    It's Taylor Knock Out value. A formula developed by John Taylor an African hunter for how much punch a particular cartridge. Formula is bullet caliber x bullet weight x bullet velocity divided by 7000.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  8. wheelgunslinger

    wheelgunslinger Member

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    Quite so.
     
  9. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    They are ballistic twins. Slight advantage to the 10mm for top bullet weight (230 gr. vs. 200 gr.) , slight advantage for the .357 for highest sectional density in top bullet weight (.205 vs. .224). Case capacity is very close (24 and 27 grs. H2O), with the 10mm running slightly higher max pressures (35k, 37.5k) that mitigates the small capacity difference.

    Both are capable of nearly 800 ft/lbs of energy from service size guns, both perform quite well for defensive or hunting uses (neither is a big game cartridge, though)

    The only decision you have to make is the platform, as 10mm is better suited and more available in autoloaders, and vice-versa.
     
  10. hardluk1

    hardluk1 member

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    IMTHDUKE What are you looking to use ether for. trail gun. Daily carry , Hunting. The 10mm would make a better woods defence gun and maybe a daily carry piece if you feel you need a 10mm but as a hunter It is 357 . You have more accurate platforms to use with longer barrel and better down range energy. When both are fired from hand guns that will allow max loads the 357 will shine over the 10mm. Down forget to that some platforms will not handle a steady diet of max loads from ether one. With the 357 you should be looking at DW, Ruger large frame and sw large frame for common revolvers. Some 10mm guys can offer advise on glocks and factory unsupported chambers. Seems Colt and SW along with DW pistols might hold up to max loads with some recoil spring tuneing.
     
  11. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    The Glock and S&W 10XX series are not the only 10mm's (at that, the 1006 is pretty darn accurate). Aside from sight plane, both .357 revolver and 10mm pistols are available in configurations that allow for optics mounting.

    My witness Limited is more accurate than any revolver I own, including a 6" 686.

    WitnessLimited10mm.jpg

    Also, that's a 5-1/4 poly rifled barrel. My loads that devlop 1,406 FPS with a 180 grainer from my 1006 garner an extra 35 FPS from the smoother, 1/4" longer Limited barrel, producing 830 ft/lbs.

    Tanfoglio also makes a 6" barreled "hunter" model that should eek out just a little more.

    So no, the .357 max loads do not exceed 10mm max loads for the reasons mentioned above and in my previous post. Unless you step up to an 8" or longer revolver, there is no ballistic advantage to .357. That is a limitation of the platform, not the cartridge, just as there is no .357 that can match the capacity of a 10mm. (though I'm sure a custom 8"+ 10mm barrel could be had, as silly as it would look)

    I'll say it again; They're ballistic twins.
     
  12. 357 Terms

    357 Terms Member

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    A big problem with this comparison is that many (if not most) 357 factory offerings have been loaded down over the years. Smaller and more fragile revolvers were chambered for the 357. Ammo manufacturers didn't want the liability when some jackase called them and said " your boolits blew up my Astra!". My reloads I use for hunting (180grn XTP's at about 1400fps outa a 6.5in Blackhawk) will outpreform all but a few manufactures loads, and even those manufacturers suggest using a select few revolvers for these rounds. What really gets me is when someone says the 10mm is on par with the 41 mag.LOL!!
     
  13. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    Yeah, 10mm isn't a .41 mag, but arguably a .41 mag is even more of a minor niche caliber than the 10mm.
     
  14. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Without really knowing much about them, that's an easy mistake to make. There are a lot of commercial .41 magnum loads that are less powerful than top-tier 10mm and .357 loads. Looking through COTW, for example, could easily cause this misconception, with the top .41 mag load listed in the 12th edition at 788 ft/lbs, most well under 700. Of course, COTW also lists the hottest 10mm load at 680 ft/lbs and .357 at 583 ft/lbs.
     
  15. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    How many rounds do 10 mm semi-automatic pistols carry?
     
  16. hardluk1

    hardluk1 member

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    machIV Forgot about witness . Seems to many get all riled up over tham I have owned a witness, great trouble free pistol. But when you can shoot better than 3" groups at 100 yards with your witness then your in the same league. I could not even come close. I have never been a fan of the smith revolvers when compaired to DW's . may standard load was 180 gr 357 at 1250 fps but i had some hotter loads worked up that pushed a bit over 14fpsfps. Old 357 loading data would step on beyound most of todays loads. Also not all pistol can shot those old loads. Kinda like some 10mm loads. And heck yes the 41 mag just beats the poop out of both. But you can buy factory loaded 357 that from the right handgun will out perform all factory 10mm. Not buy much but they do. With way more bullet options to pick from. Fast and heavy still ain't good with the wrong bullet for the job
     
  17. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Anywhere from 9 (1911 pistols) to 18 (Sarsilmaz K2), not counting extended magazines.

    Glock 20 and the full size Witness pistols are 15+1 with flush magazines. Henning's makes a +6 (21) round extension for the Witness, there are +5 extensions for Glock.

    I don't shoot 100 yards with it, but I'd be willing the bet the mechanical accuracy is there.

    Remember, this is not the same gun as a standard Witness. The extra $600 pays for hand fitted parts, a tapered cone poly rifle bull barrel, adjustable SA trigger, better sights, etc.
     
  18. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

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    The 10mm is an excellent cartridge but for sporting purposes, bullet selection is a little on the light side. The various 180gr jacketed bullets are not very well suited to big game, leaving only the 200gr XTP. Which, unfortunately, carries only the sectional density of a 158gr .357. Although there are the excellent 200gr and 230gr LBT designs from Beartooth and Double Tap respectively.
     
  19. Cop Bob

    Cop Bob Member

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    I would say that it all boils down to your personal preference.. Which platform do you like?

    Revolver or Auto....

    The 41 on par with 10MM (or Vice versa) They both can be loaded to very impressive performance levels .. I personally wouldn't want to get hit with either one.... There really isn't any different degrees of dead...
     
  20. Strahley

    Strahley Member

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    What Bob said. Caliber should be one of the last decisions you make when choosing a handgun. Many other factors come first
     
  21. PO2Hammer

    PO2Hammer Member

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    I like both rounds and hand load for both. I prefer the lower felt recoil and reduced muzzle blast of the 10mm. Plus there's no spitting of lead or lube with a 10mm pistol. Very close in terms of power, but I like the wider and usually heavier bullets in 10mm in case they don't expand.
    I guess it comes down to preferring to shoot the 10mm Glocks to a S&W 66 or 686 for me. I also added .40s&w conversions so the 10mm has a sub caliber round like the .357 mag has the .38 special.
     
  22. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    The results of anything hit with either will likely be the same. If I were looking for hunting handgun I'd pick a 357 revolver between the 2. With a 6" or longer barrel you will get a slight edge in velocity and power over the 4.5" barrels on a Glock in 10mm. The better single action trigger will help with better accuracy at longer ranges.

    When carrying a gun in the woods my Glock 20 gets the nod. It is smaller, lighter and more compact than a comparable revolver. While I'm more accurate at range with a revolver fired in single action, I'm more accurate with the Glock in closer range rapid fire situations that may be needed for SD from 2 or 4 legged predators. 16 rounds of 357 mag equivalent rounds vs 6 is another huge consideration.

    Neither is a bad choice and a 4" 357 mag revolver would be my 2nd choice for such uses.
     
  23. Pyro

    Pyro Member

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    I'd take the .357 for the sake of practicing with cheap .38 special.
     
  24. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Thanks, MachIVShooter!
     
  25. 357 Terms

    357 Terms Member

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    The basic problem with the 10mm is that the 40 S&W is a very good SD caliber,and the 357 is a better hunting and CC option ( I can carry my 2.25 sp101 on my belt and forget about it)Does anyone make a sub-compact 10mm? No 10mm race gun is going to be as accurate (under field conditions) as a long barreled 357. The 10mm never took off and there are a lot fewer options,as far as manufactureres and platforms, to choose from. I would rather carry the forty for CC or home defense and I would rather have a 357 for hunting. The 10mm is dying a slow death.
     
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