10mm Revolvers

[tex_n_cal]

I have a Colt Delta, and would like to have a 610 as well.

That said, I'd be a little concerned about using bullets with no channellure in a revo, wondering they'd tend to back out under recoil?

The idea about heavy loads concerns me, not that I'm shy about stuffing powder into cases I'd be concerned about loading a revo load into a 1911, and blow a case head.

Maybe load the 10mm revoplver rounds with .38-40 bullets? a semi wadcutter style probably would look different enough from an autoloader round, that you wouldn't stuff it in the 1911 by mistake. It probably wouldn't feed, either, and additional safety.

Any comments on bullet selection for 10mm revos?

 

[kidcoltoutlaw]

you could go

with a corbin cutter but i don't think you need to the 610 will take the hottest loads that would blow a glock or about anything else.i get 1200 from a 180 shooting 40's in my 610,thanks,keith

 

[gunfan]

I have a 6.5" Model 610.

This is one of the finest revolvers that I have ever had the pleasure of owning! It can outshoot me anytime! This revolver has taken its rightful place right along with my S&W 6" barreled Model 657 and Model 58, as well as my 6.5" barreled Model 27. These are among my most prized handguns!

Do not sell the 10mm Auto cartridge in either the revolver, or the autopistol, short. Believe me, you will regret the day that you do! If I sat you on a knoll at about 75 yards and loaded up my Model 610 using full-power Double Tap ammunition, I could arrange for you to meet Jesus in short order, guaranteed!

Think about it!

Scott

 

[355sigfan]

If I sat you on a knoll at about 75 yards and loaded up my Model 610 using full-power Double Tap ammunition, I could arrange for you to meet Jesus in short order, guaranteed!
WOW

I can hit gallon sized milk jugs at 100 yards with my Kimber. Its no great feat.
Pat

 

[gunfan]

355Sigfan...

Is the milk jug returning fire? I thought not.

 

[355sigfan]

Is the milk jug returning fire? I thought not.
END

Not thinking can be a problem. Your original situation did not involve a fire fight. And yes I do believe if I had to I could engage a hostile target at 100 yards with my pistol.
Pat

 

[jimthel]

10 mm revolver

As the N frame can be modified to take 8 .357's it should be able to be modified to take 7 10mm's which would lighten it a bit. A 6 shot L frame would be interesting out of the factory with a steel cylinder.

 

[Rangie]

10mm vs. .41 mag

I don't think there's a whole lot of diffrence between the 10mm and .41 mag out of a 3 7/8" barrel with bullets under 200gr.

My handloads are pushing 200gr. XTP's about 1200fps.

 

[The Rabbi]

First off, I think there's a Biblical prohibition against chambering revolvers in auto calibers.
But even then, I have never seen the utility of the 10mm. A .45 has more power, takes a bigger bullet and can be bought almost anywhere. The .44mag has a lot more power and can be loaded up or down, and you can use .44spc. Just a lot more versatile. And then there's the .45LC. What more can you say? What will 10mm bring to a revolver that these other cartridges wont?

 

[NordicG3K]

I have never seen the utility of the 10mm. A .45 has more power...

I have yet to see any .45 ACP load that produces in excess of 700ftlbs of energy at the muzzle.

 

[The Rabbi]

And what would the practical utility of 700 ft/lbs at the muzzle be?

 

[NordicG3K]

Hmmmm, how about handgun hunting.

 

[The Rabbi]

Could be. Those handguns tend to be pretty quick and if you dont nail them right away with 700 ft/lbs at the muzzle they are likely to get away. I've had several handguns get away from me recently, although that was more due to higher foot poundage at the muzzle of someone else's wallet.

Seriously, you haven't answered the question. If you talk about hunting with handguns, the .44mag seems like the ideal solution. What will a 10mm do different or better?

 

[NordicG3K]

You're right. There should only be one handgun for plinking, one for competition, one for self defense and one for hunting. We should get rid of everything else. Matter of fact, a .30-06 is a lot more powerful than a .44 so maybe we should get rid of that too. You know, I think just one shotgun would probably do everything! Who cares about personal tastes and preferences. Just because a 10mm gives you true magnum performance in a standard sized autoloader is irrelavent.

Oh by way, I'm still wondering where you get that .45 ACP ammo that's more powerful than the 10mm.

 

[The Rabbi]

Listen, you want to use 10mm and like it, great! Knock yourself out. But if someone wonders why there arent more guns, esp revolvers, chambered in it, this is the reason. It has no demonstrated superiority to anything already existing, and the negatives are plenty. Admittedly I've never shot one, and if I did maybe I would be a huge fan. But so far no one has shown why a 10mm is any better in any application.

 

[Cal4D4]

"...no one has shown why a 10mm is any better in any application."

Geez Rabbi, that statement can not be allowed to stand without comment.

Most of our current big revolver cartridges evolved from blackpowder rounds. Case capacity is huge for all but the very top loadings in hunting length barrels. Revolvers are designed accordingly. Ballistically the 10mm can duplicate performance for every cartridge from 9mm/.38 to gnawing at the heels of the .41 Mag in an efficient case capacity. Revolver frame size could be tailored to this shorter length to produce an awesome small 5 shot moonclipped 3" snubbie with all the power a person could tolerate. If you want to go target/hunting where size isn't troublesome a very nice package could be put together on a GP100 sized revolver with a shorter frame and barreled to suit and still be able to find a holster. Try that with a SRH!

For reloading, the 10mm brass is easier to see into with smaller powder charges than the long skinny .357 case. I have less case buckling/mouth splitting when seating bullets than with the .357 case. Performance per powder charge is better in the smaller volume case. Ignition is probably better with the shorter charge length.

Many have harvested deer sized game with the 10mm and report that performance was quite adequate. Dangerous game requires pistols in the rifle power category (.44M,.454, .480, etc) and is on the ragged edge of what traditionally has been the role of a handgun.

So, in the 10mm you have the potential for a modular reloaded revolver of small (5 shot) medium (6 shot) or large (7 or 8 shot) frame size which could successfully replace all cartridges from .38 Long to .41 Mag.

The advantages of the 10mm in an autoloader are a whole different category.

 

[The Rabbi]

You still havent shown it.

You have shown that one round can approximate the performance of several already existing cartridges *with the right loading*. That only duplicates what is out there. It might be a good sales point for someone thinking about reloading for it for that isnt most people.

To give you an idea what I mean: a 9mm or even 38 is a cheap, light recoil round that you can find anywhere. It can be loaded in a number of different weights to change performance slightly.
A .45acp is a round that is cheap, heavy recoiling and can be found almost anywhere. It puts a big piece of metal into the target. It can be loaded slightly differently to change performance.
The other traditional revolver rounds equally have something unique to recommend them, in addition to being usually available enough. But no one has shown me yet the "unique selling proposition" of the 10mm, other than that it can duplicate a lot of what is out there already. I am not trying to discourage people from using it. I am pointing out why there arent more guns available in the caliber.

 

[Cal4D4]

A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.

Best to ya Rabbi.

 

[JShirley]

The reason

there arent more guns available in the caliber

is because the round wasn't controlleable by Federal police wussies when first introduced- though downloading the round did produce one of the most popular handgun centerfire rounds in recent history. It's a great cartridge...much more versatile than the 9x23mm I recently aquired.

John

 

[NordicG3K]

You still havent shown it.

Well first you have to open your eyes.

The 10mm Auto can be summed up in one word - versatility. The more commercially popular semiauto cartridges such as the 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP are all very good in their own particular niche. What makes the 10mm special is that it can do just about everything the others can, and more. Loaded down to FBI Lite velocities the 10mm has very little recoil in full-sized guns. Many shooters even feel it has less recoil than the .40 S&W because the 10mm guns are usually a little bit bigger and heavier as most .40s are built on 9mm platforms. The range of available bullet weights in .400 caliber is also impressive, going from 135gn flyweights to heavy 220gn hardcast bullets. If you like high capacity guns there's the Glock 20, Paraordnance P16 conversions, the old Star Megastar 10 and the EAA Witness. Each of these guns allow you to carry 14+ rounds of ammo. With mid-range loads the 10mm meets or exceeds .45 +P loads and makes an excellent police/CCW cartridge. If you want to go deer or pig hunting just fill the mag with some full-power loads and you're ready to go. In fact some people have used the 10mm to take bear, elk and even bison. It's true that 700+ ftlbs isn't necessary for every handgun application, but it's nice to know it's available if you should want it. All this performance in a standard full-size autoloader like the 1911. Some people site limited availability of guns or ammo as a drawback, but these are market issues, not gun/cartridge issues. In fact the only real area in which the 10mm has difficulty competing is in the area of ultra compact concealed carry. Because of the 10mm's longer OAL and power potential it is difficult to build guns as small as some of the current 9mms and .40 S&Ws like the mini Glocks, Kahrs, etc.

And what was the final verdict on that superior power .45 ACP load? I'd like to pick some up for my HK USP.

 

[gunfan]

I suppose that it would serve no purpose to tell him that the .45 ACP has been fired in the S&W Model 625 for such a loooong time (since 1917) that the 10mm is a common sense progression for the cartridge.

Rabbi, get over it!

Scott

 

[The Rabbi]

Now I'm not a hunter or a long gun person at all, but I havent failed to notice the huge numbers of cartridges that exist for rifles. Go back 50 or 75 years and what was standard then is probably hard to find today. Some have survived of course. And all those rounds that you need to look for on Old Western Scrounger I am sure had some proponent or other claiming it was the greatest, fastest, strongest, most versatile, etc etc. They may even have been right. But no one listened or cared and the market place relegated them (rightly I think) to where they are today. They just didnt offer anything clearly superior to what was out there or came later. I see the same thing here. The 10mm can be loaded to 700 ft lbs of energy. BFD. Why is 700 any better than 600? What will the cartridge do that cant be done by what exists already? Nothing. You like it and want to shoot it, great. I am far from telling anyone not to. I might end up with one myself one day.
For your HK I recommend Aguila's. I carry them myself in my 220. They may or may not develop 700 ft lbs of energy, but they will very likely stop whatever is likely to attack you.

 

[NordicG3K]

For your HK I recommend Aguila's. I carry them myself in my 220. They may or may not develop 700 ft lbs of energy, but they will very likely stop whatever is likely to attack you.

I just checked Aguila's website and the only two loads they list is a 230gn FMJ at 751fps and 352ftlbs, and a 117gn alloy HP at 1450fps and 546ftlbs. Not quite 700ftlbs (or 750ftlbs if you're using some of Double Tap's full-power loads). I think the .45 is an outstanding cartridge and I feel totally comfortable carrying it around town, but when walking out in the woods I prefer something with a bit more punch. Sure I could pack my .44 Ruger SBH or S&W M57 .41 Mag, but I prefer semiautos.

The 10mm can be loaded to 700 ft lbs of energy. BFD. Why is 700 any better than 600? What will the cartridge do that cant be done by what exists already? Nothing.

If 700ftlbs is no better than 600ftlbs does that also mean that 600ftlbs is no better than 500ftlbs? At what point do you stop? I do believe that there is a point at where more velocity, energy and penetration add nothing to the terminal effect, but that point changes when you change targets. As I stated I think the .45 is a very effective cartridge. That effectiveness is dependent on two factors though; target size and target distance. When shooting at a man-sized target at normal combat handgun ranges I don't think the 10mm will do much better. When you extend the range though the 10mm is a flatter shooting cartridge and that added velocity and energy means deep penetration even at longer distances. If you change the variables in the other direction and now have a much larger target you don't need a flat shooting cartridge, but you do need deep, deep penetration. The simple truth is that the 10mm can do anything the .45 ACP can do, but the .45 ACP CANNOT do everything the 10mm can.

The term "better" means different things to different people. To some "better" means that the particular cartridge is inexpensive, readily available in any location and chambered in a multitude of different makes and models of firearms. To others (myself included) the word "better" means one particular cartridge provides greater ballistic performance than another. Considering that the 10mm is available in a greater range of bullet weights, can be pushed to far greater velocity and energy levels and can be had in the same sized firearm platforms I believe, without reservation, that it is a "better" cartridge than the .45 ACP. Does this mean that the .45 ACP is a lousy and worthless catridge? Not at all. You also mentioned that the .44 Mag is more powerful. This is certainly true, but none of your "magnum" revolver cartridges can be chambered in a semiauto the size of a standard 1911 (or smaller if you go down to the Glock 29, Witness Compact, etc.). Additionally, in most magnum caliber revolvers you are limited to 6 or so rounds. Take your Glock 20 and you've got 15+1 rounds (or 17+1 if you use the extended base pads) on tap. 16 rounds at 700ftlbs each is a lot of power in a standards sized handgun no matter which way you cut it.

So, to answer your question, yes the 10mm Auto can do things other handgun cartridges cannot. It gives you better ballistic performance potential than any other common semiauto caliber and yet still fits in the same handgun platform envelope.

 

[JShirley]

For your HK I recommend Aguila's

Aigh! Heeheehahahaho. Thanks, I needed a laugh this morning.

Seriously, what do you really carry?

John

 

[The Rabbi]

Its OK. In the absence of understanding people tend to laugh. I think this thread has gone wherever it is going in terms of information. Thanks, guys.