I find just the opposite with my glock 20. I handload 40sw to the same velocities with the same powder and bullet as the 10mm handloads(both chronoed in the 1300 fps range). The 40 recoiled much less than the 10mm. It also was more efficient in the fps achieved versus powder amount. I think you have to compare apples to apples and factory ammo from 1 caliber to another is not going to give you a good comparison.
10mm vs 40 S&W Recoil
- Thread starter KBintheSLC
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The OP mentions he used 165gr Fiocchi,. I tried the same ammo and the gun was chunking the brass twice as far and high as anything I have ever shot.
The .40 is snappy but it's controllable, I can shoot a 9mm like it's a .22 after shooting the .40.
The .40 is snappy but it's controllable, I can shoot a 9mm like it's a .22 after shooting the .40.
MTMilitiaman
Member
What grain of bullet are you using?
Coming into this, I think it's funny what my coworker said. He said that because the .40 is "S&W" it's a "proprietary" cartridge and isn't going to be very easy to find. However, the 10mm, which has no brand name, is much more limited and the .40 (from what I've read on the interwebz, anyway) seems to be pretty mainstream. Then of course he told me to get a 9mm Luger or a .45 ACP, right after saying that if it's got a brand name it's proprietary...
MTMilitiaman
Member
So you got a 180 gr bullet @ 1300 fps from a .40 S&W? That would be a neat trick.
What length of barrel? [Sniff-sniff] What's that smell?
Stevie-Ray
Member
Allrighty then, here goes. Exempting the fact that another reader can't find the load you speak so highly of, lets examine PMC's 10mm offerings. Their 170 gr HP comes out at 1200 fps and is regarded by every 10mm afficionado I know of as "wimpy" or "rather pleasant." Same for their 200 gr load at 1050, even though it's the very load Jeff Cooper spoke of as perfect. So your thermonuclear .40 load would be considered wimpy by 10mm fans. That makes your assertion that the load is in 10mm country disingenuous at best. Don't try to lump .40s with 10s, because it's simply not logical. The .40 does almost everything the 10 does? Not hardly. Where .40 stops, 10mm starts.
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Are you sniffing your militia buddies ---- end? Just 'cause you cannot do it. It was a 6 inch wolf barrel which helped the velocity some. The .40 load does the same as the 10mm with 1 g less powder. Case is packed quite tightly.
OP
OP
KBintheSLC
Member
I too find it impossible to believe that you can drive a 180g bullet to 1300 fps in a .40 S&W. Considering that some of the hotter 10mm loads are barely producing those velocities. The pressure in a .40 case would be so far beyond SAAMI specs, it is frightening to imagine. I think you may want to re-check this info.
Skylerbone
Member
Out of an LAR-40 that might be reasonable. Out of a 6" barrel that would be tempting fate. I'll take the 980 I get out of a 165 grain any day but then my use may differ, mine is polymer and I've grown dependent on my fingers 
,
Stay safe all.
,Stay safe all.
Junk, mismatched powder to intended use, combined with timing.
Sometimes the industry uses bulk powder they get a great buy on, that is left over from another industry, mainly military defense. They get such a great price on it, they have to turn a profit on it, so they pick a round they can put it in, where while not a good match, it does the trick. Perhaps that is the case here?
Also, try reloading for the .40. Is it in that weird middle range where there aren't many powders that work right for the case capacity, and, those that do are expensive?
I go back to Remington and their 44 Special ammo, in about 1980. Huge flash, and recoil, bullet was going so slow you could see it, and you couldn't keep it on a man sized target at 7 yards. Handloads, going nearly 1000 fps, with heavier bullets, would recoil and flash far less, and you could shoot the eyes out on the target at 7 yards.
Also the case capacity for 40 seems to be nearly twice that of the 9MM.
Most of the guns now in use for .40 were designed for the high pressure 9MM,
meaning the timing on the gun maybe set as far as it can go to keep the chamber closed, until pressure goes down. Perhaps that adjustment is not feasible to increase on the 40, and, the only way to make the guns work with 40 is either redesign, or, heavier springs, which doesn't work to reduce felt recoil, much.
When you swap a barrel, don't change the timing, and don't change the slide weight, the slide is going to recoil considerably faster with the larger case then the 9MM it was designed for. Odd that taking a gun designed for 10MM
and putting 40 in it gives you this result? Perhaps the timing is different on the .40 barrel then the 10MM? Compare them side by side, check the way the lugs are cut, and the length of the bottom link?
Does the conversion change springs as well?
Working with certain powders in heavy revolvers, you hit a point of diminishing returns. For instance when you go much over minimum loads with 4227, or H110, the increase in velocity is marginal, compared to the increase in felt recoil.
Perhaps the powders they are using are designed for low pressure cartridges, like the 45 ACP, and when you increase the pressure, nearly double in the .40,recoil spikes at a very high rate, making it very snappy?
Sometimes the industry uses bulk powder they get a great buy on, that is left over from another industry, mainly military defense. They get such a great price on it, they have to turn a profit on it, so they pick a round they can put it in, where while not a good match, it does the trick. Perhaps that is the case here?
Also, try reloading for the .40. Is it in that weird middle range where there aren't many powders that work right for the case capacity, and, those that do are expensive?
I go back to Remington and their 44 Special ammo, in about 1980. Huge flash, and recoil, bullet was going so slow you could see it, and you couldn't keep it on a man sized target at 7 yards. Handloads, going nearly 1000 fps, with heavier bullets, would recoil and flash far less, and you could shoot the eyes out on the target at 7 yards.
Also the case capacity for 40 seems to be nearly twice that of the 9MM.
Most of the guns now in use for .40 were designed for the high pressure 9MM,
meaning the timing on the gun maybe set as far as it can go to keep the chamber closed, until pressure goes down. Perhaps that adjustment is not feasible to increase on the 40, and, the only way to make the guns work with 40 is either redesign, or, heavier springs, which doesn't work to reduce felt recoil, much.
When you swap a barrel, don't change the timing, and don't change the slide weight, the slide is going to recoil considerably faster with the larger case then the 9MM it was designed for. Odd that taking a gun designed for 10MM
and putting 40 in it gives you this result? Perhaps the timing is different on the .40 barrel then the 10MM? Compare them side by side, check the way the lugs are cut, and the length of the bottom link?
Does the conversion change springs as well?
Working with certain powders in heavy revolvers, you hit a point of diminishing returns. For instance when you go much over minimum loads with 4227, or H110, the increase in velocity is marginal, compared to the increase in felt recoil.
Perhaps the powders they are using are designed for low pressure cartridges, like the 45 ACP, and when you increase the pressure, nearly double in the .40,recoil spikes at a very high rate, making it very snappy?
glock 20 with 6 in wolf barrel 10MM
180jhp, 12.0 800x 1503,1477, 1520, 1483
glock 20 with 6in wolf barrel in .40sw
155jhp, 10.5 800x 1480, 1527, 1475, 1459
THESE LOADS ARE NOT RECOMMENDED TO ANYONE NOR DO I CONSDIDER THEM SAFE TO USE.
180jhp, 12.0 800x 1503,1477, 1520, 1483
glock 20 with 6in wolf barrel in .40sw
155jhp, 10.5 800x 1480, 1527, 1475, 1459
THESE LOADS ARE NOT RECOMMENDED TO ANYONE NOR DO I CONSDIDER THEM SAFE TO USE.
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OP
OP
KBintheSLC
Member
155g and 180g are a little different. You are saying the .40 is producing the "same" results as the 10mm, but you are ignoring the difference in bullet weight.
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OP
OP
KBintheSLC
Member
For the test in the OP, I was just using the stock 17 lb spring for all loads. However, I do use a 22 lb spring when I run my heavy and hot 10mm ammo for defensive use.
You are correct. I was having trouble with the text all bunching up when I posted and was getting sick of editing because it was late and I did not post the 10mm with the same 155g bullet as in the 40 stats I listed. The velocities were about the same. Obviously the powder capacity of the 40 becomes an issue when using the 180g bullets and/or length in the magazine. Although in my app I was using the 10mm glock mags with the 40 rounds and they worked fine. I do not even own a 40 caliber pistol but their is so much 40 brass laying around I thought $110.00 for the barrel from wolf was a cheap pistol. The 10mm dies work fine and I already have the .40 bullets and lots of small pistol primers. I am a 45 acp guy but I was favorably impressed with the .40sw with handloading and now have an excuse to get another pistol.
I believe more of the powder is burned with the heavier bullets so the velocity does not drop off as much as you would think in going from the 155g to 180g. Here are the 10mm, 155g, 11.0g 800x that I left off: 1469, 1501, 1473, 1562. BTW both 40 velocities and 10mm were with wolf 6 inch barrels and the same pistol.
45 super: 185jhp, 11.0 800x, pistol was full size 1911 kimber.
1279, 1311, 1284, 1250, 1273, 1322, 1286, 1309.
11.9 g 800x: 1440, 1437 this load seemed to be past the sweet spot of the 11.0 load.
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