115gr or 147gr in 9mm?

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The_Shootist

The_Shootist

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Warm weather FINALLY returns to Texas after a brutal winter in which we saw temps plunge several times into the low 50's ( :p ).

Now its time to switch calibers for carry from my 1911 to my G19 (or at least I'll be carrying / shooting my Glock more, just because I'm kind of a cheapskate at heart).

Problem was, yanked the Glock out of the safe, went to Academy to buy some Winchester USA 115 gr JHP's (my carry/practice round ) but they didnt' have any. Nor did the Wal-Mart up the road. But WM did have several boxes of the 147 gr
JHP version of the USA ammo. so I picked up 3 boxes ($ 10 bucks apiece - not bad) to experiment with.

Ammolab seems to give this brand a pretty good result. It showed retention of 124 gr doing penetration of 16 inches in ballistic gelatin with expansion to .56".
For a bargain basement round, I figured I could do worse.

Have 147gr rounds improved over the years? 5 years ago when I got my 1st 9
I read that current 147gr rounds were little better than .38 spl rounds in performance. Things seem to have gotton better.

Also, now that thin clothing is back with warmer weather, do I really want to go with the heavier round ?
 
Hello. While I'm not a particular fan of 147-gr. 9mm JHP's, some testing I did on my own combined with material gleaned from other sources does seem to indicate that these newer loadings do "work."

I was particularly impressed with Speer's 147-gr. GDHP when fired from a Browning Hi Power. Likewise, Remington's 147-gr. Golden Saber performed well.

Were I to opt for that bullet weight for "serious" purposes, I might very well look long and hard at these.

Best.
 
There are lots of 147gr cartridges that have excellent performance. The question should not be "Does 147gr ammo perfrom well?" but rather "Does this particular 147gr perform well?" because just like bullets of ALL weights some do and some don't. As you seem to already know there is much better ammo out there than the Win. USA JHP's but it's better than Win USA FMJ's and better than rubber bands. If that's all you can get then go for it. There are lots of reasonably priced sources for quality ammo online though.

You just have to look around.

brad cook
 
Winchester 9mm 147g JHP

I bought a box at WalMart last week on a whim: on a paper target, with my CZ 75B, I shot pretty close to POA at about 10 yards -- 2"+/- -- offhand and not trying too hard. I usually go with 115g or 124g Blazer Brass/S&B/WWB. I don't know how this ammo penetrates, expands, etc., but I like the accuracy.
 
Handguns, in general, are not particularly good at stopping humans.

Accordingly, I'm a big believer in getting a bullet that will penetrate sufficiently to make a hole through the good parts.

I vote 147-grain (and watch your backstop, of course). I run Gold Dots in my Smith, fwiw.
 
the only thing good i have to say about the 147gr slug is that it was the most accurate round out of my sig 226.my preference in 9mm has always run toward the 124gr slugs, so between the two i'd prefer the 115gr for additional speed...especially during the warmer months.

my current carry load is the 127gr +p+
 
147 grain loads will not always reliably cycle a semi-auto, so test to be sure it will be reliable. I am not a big fan of 147 grain 9mm's. This bullet weight was originally designed for use by the U.S. Navy Seals in sound suppressed semi-autos. It worked well in this situation, but for most of us 115 or 124 grain loads work much better.
 
When the 147gr. load was initially launched (you should pardon the expression), it developed a reputation for lack of expansion and over-penetration that was almost as bad as 9mm. hardball. As a result, it rapidly fell out of favor. However, I understand that in recent years, with the advent of computer-aided bullet design and better ballistic testing, there has been a "second generation" of 147gr. projectiles developed that show markedly better expansion and less risk of over-penetration. I don't use this bullet weight myself, having chosen the 115gr. to 127gr. loadings, but police shooting reports tend to suggest that the new stuff is working at least OK.

One major plus mark to the 147gr. round is its accuracy. Because it has a much longer bearing surface than the lighter rounds, it's almost always more accurate in most guns.

I don't think that the cheaper Winchester ammo would use a latest-generation bullet design, so I'd be cautious about trusting the white-box 147gr. load to incorporate the latest developments - they may be using up old bullets in it. On the other hand, they're not going to simultaneously manufacture old-style and new-style JHP's, so if they've used up their stocks of old-technology 147gr. JHP's, you might be getting the "good stuff" in the white-box packaging now. Might be worth calling Winchester to find out.
 
The 147 gr Winchesters were one of the best loads I found for shooting at 100 yards with my Taurus PT99. For accuracy, esp at longer distances, that longer bullet just seems to help out quite a bit.

As for 'street performance' goes, I prefer the 124-127 Gr range. Many folks argue over whether the 147s penetrate too much or maybe the 147s penetrate adequately and the 115s and 124s have substandard penetration. I look at it more from the point of view of expansion. Even of the newer loads expand better than the older loads, they still don't seem to expand as consistantly as the hotter 124-127s. The only 147s I'd feel completely comfortable carrying are the Rangers while I feel plenty of confidence in the 124-127 Gr Rangers, Gold Dots, GoldenSabers, Silvertips, CorBons etc...
 
I did my own little water test (laundery soap containers filled with water). I played with WWB 115 gr. JHP and 147 gr. JHP. They both penetrated two containers and just hit that last one and fell. The 147 didn't expande as much but was still quite impressive. the 115 expanded alot. I will try and take pictures and post them. This isn't scientific in the least bit but it worked for comparing the two loads.


clipse
 
Ok here ya go.


115 gr. on the left and 147 gr. on the right.

f96737eb.jpg


Same with this pic.

f9673778.jpg



These pics were taken quickly so I appologize for the bad photography.


clipse
 
If you shoot one brand or weight of bullet significantly more accurately than another, IMHO its a no brainer you should go with the ammo you hit the best with and forget about "magic" bullets.

Only three things count, the 3 P's of self-defense: Placement, Placement, Penetration.

--wally.
 
Hi I'm new to the 9mm world so forgive my ignorance here. Isn't underpenetration more of a problem with 9mm vs over? I shoot 10mm out of a delta & I know that overpenetration is something law enforcement was concerned about with the 10mm. I believe thats where the 40cal was developed. But you have to worry about your rounds popping out the other side of a torso with a 9mm?
 
Hi I'm new to the 9mm world so forgive my ignorance here. Isn't underpenetration more of a problem with 9mm vs over? I shoot 10mm out of a delta & I know that overpenetration is something law enforcement was concerned about with the 10mm. I believe thats where the 40cal was developed. But you have to worry about your rounds popping out the other side of a torso with a 9mm?
Click to expand...

FMJ or a HP that fails to expand can penetrate a LOT. However, overpenetration shouldn't be a concern IMHO. The police have liability insurance premiums to worry about, backup, and body armor as a general rule. For a CCW I think stopping the assailant should take a higher priority. If I were to carry a 9mm I would want light FMJ ammo and lots of it. The more accurately placed rounds I can put on target the better the odds of a quick stop and the FMJ should provide good and consistant penetration and the ligher weight faster follow-ups.

If I were to use hollow-points I'd go for a heavier bullet to insure good penetration along with the expansion, but I think hitting a vital is more important than putting a big hole though muscle.

That's just my thinking on the subject. If we manage to get CCW here in KS my current CCW options are my CZ-40B, which I still need a holster for and my Delta Elite which I have loaded with 135 gr Nosler JHPs going about 1400 FPS. I chose this load for a combination of accuracy and reliablity.

I've specificly set my gun up for light bullets and I know these work. I could get under-penetration with the light bullets but they give me the advantage of faster follow-up shots and great accuracy from my gun. Not to mention they're affordable enough that I can practice with the exact same load and I think that's a huge plus.

As long as I'm confident in the gun and do my part I think the exact load is really splitting hairs. Much more important is the shooter and that means training and range time. So, heed the wally :D
 
overpenetration is something law enforcement was concerned about with the 10mm. I believe thats where the 40cal was developed.
Click to expand...

Actually, the 10mm was developed because FBI agents complained about the fierce recoil of the 10mm, so they developed the 180 grain load at 950 feet per second. The FBI also wanted S&W to develop a decocking only, 4 1/4 inch barreled pistol for the 10mm. Well, there were some reliability problems with the new pistol. S&W decided that a 180 grain 40 caliber bullet at 950 feet per second could be put into a smaller package and chambered in guns that were the same approximate size of the 9mm guns. Thus, the 40 S&W was born. If it had not been for the FBI neutering the 10mm and having S&W redesign their 10mm pistol to work just like a SIG, the 40 S&W may never have seen the light of day.
 
I never understood the fierce recoil of the 10mm. My delta elite is much easier to shoot tham my python with a 6" barrel. The police have used the .357 magnum for years & the standard revolver isn't as heavy as my python...is it or am I wrong here? Does anyone else shoot a 5" auto in 10mm agree with me on the recoil?
 
Not meaning to contribute to the hijacking of this thread but the .40 S&W is almost identical to the original Bren Ten 10mm round. The original 10mm was developed around a modified Browning Hi Power platform. It was later lengthened to the 10mm round we know and use today.
 
I have been down the "Which ammo is best for Carry in my G19" road too.

I have shot Speer, Cor-bon, Winchester and Federal out of the G19.

But, the best I have found performance wise out of my gun is the Black Hills 124 +P with the Speer Gold Dot JHP bullet.

Feeds fine, groups well, is decently priced and has the awesome Speer Gold Dot JHP bullet.

Black Hills has it listed as 1250 fps @ 430lbs of energy at the muzzle. Not bad at all.


http://www.black-hills.com/
 
My only 147 grain 9m/m JHP experience is
with the infamous Winchsester "Black Talons";
of which I have several boxes on hand.

When I carry my 9m/m as a CCW, its magazines
are full of the Federal "Secret Service Load". I
don't know whether its the 115 grain or the 124
grain; but they work great when fired from my
SIG-SAUER P228!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
doing my part to aid in thread hijack...

I find the 10mm recoil to be barely tolerable even in a 5" all-steel Witness. It wreaks havoc with my wrist. I hurt for about 36 hours in my wrist afterwards, with considerable stiffness. Even with the 20lb recoil spring.

Unfortunately, it is my first pistol.
 
I find the 10mm recoil to be barely tolerable...
Click to expand...
Are these full house loads (or fuller house loads) or standard loadings that you're likely to find at a sporting goods store? I'm not what I would consider a recoil feind but a friend of mine carries a G29 loaded with 180 gr Georgia Arms Gold Dots and I don't find them to be unmanagable at all... Certainly not as easy to shoot as a G26, but I could wear it tomorrow without fear of having to shoot it.

Winchester Silvertips are very mild feeling to my hands but I don't know how their terminal performance is supposed to be.
 
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