9mm carry ammo...115 or 147
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NewGuy1911
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What's wrong with the 124gr ammo?
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Hmmm...in my opinion, here are some important factors to consider, so I'll address what I think is important without gettnig too much into the pros/cons. I'm sure there will be plenty of diverse opinions on this, but here goes:
1. Whatever you decide to carry for personal defense, you should use in your practice/target shooting.
2. Whatever you decide to carry for personal defense, you should make sure will function reliably in your gun.
3. In general, for a given velocity a heaver bullet (of the same design) will penetrate deeper than a lighter bullet.
4. Higher velocity in a lighter bullet does NOT directly equate to equal end performance between lighter and heavier bullets. Just because you have the same calculated energies does not mean the same terminal ballistics at the target.
THAT SAID:
Everything is a trade-off and there are endless debates/arguments on what constitutes "the best". THERE IS NO "BEST". There may be a "best for (fill in the blank) circumstance, but change one thing and that goes out the window.
If I may quote Frank Ettin in another posting:
“So as a rule of thumb:
More holes are better than fewer holes.
Larger holes are better than smaller holes.
Holes in the right places are better than holes in the wrong places.
Holes that are deep enough are better than holes that aren't.
There are no magic bullets.
There are no guarantees.”
On a personal note, I typically shoot 115 gr. Winchester Whitebox 9mm in my Beretta 92FS. For self defense with this gun, I carry 115 gr. Speer Gold Dots.
They have the same bullet mass, virtually the same velocity out of my gun, and they are indistinguishable in reliability and accuracy/point of impact for me. Therefore I get the benefit of being able to use the more inexpensive WWB ammunition for target practice while being comfortable in knowing that my self defense rounds will hit where I am aiming, just like my practice ammo.
Pick what suits you based on these factors and practice putting them where you want them...because regardless of their performance characteristics, they ain't gonna perform well against your target if you can't hit your target.
1. Whatever you decide to carry for personal defense, you should use in your practice/target shooting.
2. Whatever you decide to carry for personal defense, you should make sure will function reliably in your gun.
3. In general, for a given velocity a heaver bullet (of the same design) will penetrate deeper than a lighter bullet.
4. Higher velocity in a lighter bullet does NOT directly equate to equal end performance between lighter and heavier bullets. Just because you have the same calculated energies does not mean the same terminal ballistics at the target.
THAT SAID:
Everything is a trade-off and there are endless debates/arguments on what constitutes "the best". THERE IS NO "BEST". There may be a "best for (fill in the blank) circumstance, but change one thing and that goes out the window.
If I may quote Frank Ettin in another posting:
“So as a rule of thumb:
More holes are better than fewer holes.
Larger holes are better than smaller holes.
Holes in the right places are better than holes in the wrong places.
Holes that are deep enough are better than holes that aren't.
There are no magic bullets.
There are no guarantees.”
On a personal note, I typically shoot 115 gr. Winchester Whitebox 9mm in my Beretta 92FS. For self defense with this gun, I carry 115 gr. Speer Gold Dots.
They have the same bullet mass, virtually the same velocity out of my gun, and they are indistinguishable in reliability and accuracy/point of impact for me. Therefore I get the benefit of being able to use the more inexpensive WWB ammunition for target practice while being comfortable in knowing that my self defense rounds will hit where I am aiming, just like my practice ammo.
Pick what suits you based on these factors and practice putting them where you want them...because regardless of their performance characteristics, they ain't gonna perform well against your target if you can't hit your target.
Tomac
Member
All handguns are relatively poor "stoppers" regardless of caliber or bullet used. Shot placement and sufficient penetration are paramount, all else is secondary.
In 9mm, the lighter 115gr loads (especially Critical Defense) tend to underperform compared to quality 147's.
Unfortunately, Critical Defense was designed to underpenetrate, not a good thing (remember Platt in the infamous Miami Shootout and the expanded 9mm Silvertip that stopped 1" from his heart?).
Try a box of them both and unless one is significantly more controllable for you than the other, of the two you listed I'd go w/the 147's (YMMV).
Personally, I carry 135gr Critical Duty for penetration right in the middle of the FBI's suggested 12"-18" range coupled w/moderate expansion (can't have everything, increased expansion = less penetration).
Tomac
In 9mm, the lighter 115gr loads (especially Critical Defense) tend to underperform compared to quality 147's.
Unfortunately, Critical Defense was designed to underpenetrate, not a good thing (remember Platt in the infamous Miami Shootout and the expanded 9mm Silvertip that stopped 1" from his heart?).
Try a box of them both and unless one is significantly more controllable for you than the other, of the two you listed I'd go w/the 147's (YMMV).
Personally, I carry 135gr Critical Duty for penetration right in the middle of the FBI's suggested 12"-18" range coupled w/moderate expansion (can't have everything, increased expansion = less penetration).
Tomac
beatledog7
Member
If I carried a 9mm it'd be stuffed full of 124gr JHPs. I use all three basic weights at the range.
How about 85 grain 9mm? Love the light weight for carry.
http://store.drtammo.com/drtterminalshock9mmfhp124gr-1.aspx
http://store.drtammo.com/drtterminalshock9mmfhp124gr-1.aspx
g_one
Member
Personally I choose lighter weight bullets for the snubby subcompact barrels and heavier bullets for full-length barrels.
There may or may not be any science behind it but that's just what I've always done.
There may or may not be any science behind it but that's just what I've always done.
No4Mk1*
Member
After reviewing online ballistic gelatin results and the San Diego autopsy study I chose 147g JHP. In general heavy bullets are less likely to expand as much but more likely to penetrate deeper.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Ummmm...seriously?
Let's run the numbers here:
Assume we're talking about my Beretta 92FS, with a 15 round magazine. 15 rounds at a savings of 30 grains per bullet (assuming my normal 115 gr bullets) works out to 450 grains in weight savings, or 1.03 ounce.
For 124 gr. ammunition, that would be a weight savings of 1.34 ounce.
For 147 gr. ammunition, that would be a weight savings of 2.13 ounces.
And, despite the relatively huge velocity gain of the 85 gr. TerminalShock bullet due to the lower bullet mass, the terminal ballistics do not equate to the same performance...even if the energy levels were to be the same with other hollowpoint rounds of larger mass.
A cool round, to be sure, and I wouldn't mind getting some just to shoot and see what they can do. But that's about it for me. Others may differ.
coolluke01
Member
g_one, I have found that the opposite should be a good practice.
The choice between light or heavy is made easier when we know what length barrel we are talking about.
The 115's or 124's in +P work good in guns with longer barrels. Shorter barrels don't give you much of a gain in FPS when you use +P rounds.
I chose to carry 147 Ranger T's in my subcompact Glock 26.
If you have a longer barreled gun the lighter and faster rounds will give you a slight edge over heavy and slow in the recoil that is felt as well as penetration and reliable expansion.
The choice between light or heavy is made easier when we know what length barrel we are talking about.
The 115's or 124's in +P work good in guns with longer barrels. Shorter barrels don't give you much of a gain in FPS when you use +P rounds.
I chose to carry 147 Ranger T's in my subcompact Glock 26.
If you have a longer barreled gun the lighter and faster rounds will give you a slight edge over heavy and slow in the recoil that is felt as well as penetration and reliable expansion.
It is still a lighter gun. Is it a helium filled mag of unobtainable killing material, no. You can feel the difference between 115 grain and 85 grain mags.
Powderpuff rounds to shoot also. Are we all going to agree on the perfect round to use? Don't think so.
Just tossing it out there, I don't sell the stuff.
Powderpuff rounds to shoot also. Are we all going to agree on the perfect round to use? Don't think so.
Just tossing it out there, I don't sell the stuff.
W.E.G.
Member
You need to experiment with ammo in YOUR gun with YOU shooting it.
How some arbitrary load functions in somebody else's gun, with somebody else shooting it, won't tell you what you need to know.
How some arbitrary load functions in somebody else's gun, with somebody else shooting it, won't tell you what you need to know.
I'd agree with you in terms of reliability and making sure it cycles in your gun, but most people don't have access to facilities to do their own standardized ballistic gelatin testing. You can mess around with wet phonebooks or something of the such, but I would trust lab tested gelatin results before phonebook/newsprint tests.
JR24
Member
Both my primary 9mms seem to run 147 grain standard pressure loads best (in terms of accuracy and handling). So I like those if I'm carrying 9mm (Golden Sabers have been good for me).
MICHAEL T
Member
Myself I don't think BG will know the difference 115 124 or 147 . He just going to know he's been shot, and unless totally crazy will be looking for a exit . I carry 115+p mainly in my 9mm Commander and KelTec PF-9
Well said and I agree whole hartedly.Hmmm...in my opinion, here are some important factors to consider, so I'll address what I think is important without gettnig too much into the pros/cons. I'm sure there will be plenty of diverse opinions on this, but here goes:
1. Whatever you decide to carry for personal defense, you should use in your practice/target shooting.
2. Whatever you decide to carry for personal defense, you should make sure will function reliably in your gun.
3. In general, for a given velocity a heaver bullet (of the same design) will penetrate deeper than a lighter bullet.
4. Higher velocity in a lighter bullet does NOT directly equate to equal end performance between lighter and heavier bullets. Just because you have the same calculated energies does not mean the same terminal ballistics at the target.
THAT SAID:
Everything is a trade-off and there are endless debates/arguments on what constitutes "the best". THERE IS NO "BEST". There may be a "best for (fill in the blank) circumstance, but change one thing and that goes out the window.
If I may quote Frank Ettin in another posting:
“So as a rule of thumb:
More holes are better than fewer holes.
Larger holes are better than smaller holes.
Holes in the right places are better than holes in the wrong places.
Holes that are deep enough are better than holes that aren't.
There are no magic bullets.
There are no guarantees.”
On a personal note, I typically shoot 115 gr. Winchester Whitebox 9mm in my Beretta 92FS. For self defense with this gun, I carry 115 gr. Speer Gold Dots.
They have the same bullet mass, virtually the same velocity out of my gun, and they are indistinguishable in reliability and accuracy/point of impact for me. Therefore I get the benefit of being able to use the more inexpensive WWB ammunition for target practice while being comfortable in knowing that my self defense rounds will hit where I am aiming, just like my practice ammo.
Pick what suits you based on these factors and practice putting them where you want them...because regardless of their performance characteristics, they ain't gonna perform well against your target if you can't hit your target.
My choice for SD as well I might add.
Good post.
Comrade Mike
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- Apr 16, 2013
- Messages
- 997
147 grain non bonded golden saber for full size 9'a
I currently have my Glock 19 loaded with Federal 115gr +p+. This ammo has a very good reputation in law enforcement shootings. The 115gr Speer Gold Dots in standard velocity test well with good penetration and expansion.
Just about any of the premium self defense 147gr are very good. The Winchester PDX1 in 147 gr with the bonded bullet, Speer Gold Dots or Remington Golden Sabers are what I occasionally carry in my 9's.
The Remington 124gr Golden Sabers standard velocity or +P are usually easily found and would be a good choice as well as the Winchester 124gr PDX1 +P that sometimes show up at Wal Mart.
Check the link below for several 9mm tests that are done quite well on different ammo and check out some of the brands and bullet weights that you can find locally.
9mm ammo Tests by Tnoutdoors9
Just about any of the premium self defense 147gr are very good. The Winchester PDX1 in 147 gr with the bonded bullet, Speer Gold Dots or Remington Golden Sabers are what I occasionally carry in my 9's.
The Remington 124gr Golden Sabers standard velocity or +P are usually easily found and would be a good choice as well as the Winchester 124gr PDX1 +P that sometimes show up at Wal Mart.
Check the link below for several 9mm tests that are done quite well on different ammo and check out some of the brands and bullet weights that you can find locally.
9mm ammo Tests by Tnoutdoors9
rskent
Member
It does not get any better, or simpler, than that. Thank You
Devilfrog
Member
I typically carry 124+P Gold Dots in my short barreled sub compacts and 147 Gr in my "full" sized
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