115gr vs 124gr

[Crazy Horse]

Has anyone had issues (FTE) when firing 124gr bullets over 115gr bullets? I've heard of the opposite, but today I experienced multiple FTE situations from my ATI 1911 9mm? I started with a lighter spring (12 lb) than the original one that came from the factory (14 lb). The 1911 still jammed a few times with the 124gr bullets. When I switched to the lighter bullets (115gr), the issue went away. I liked the way the 12lb spring felt, but to make sure I tried each of the springs I changed it out for a 10 lb spring. By this time, I was out of 124gr so I fired 115gr bullets. No more FTE issues after 30 bullets. I left the 10lb spring as it felt good and seems to cycle better over the 14 lb spring that the firearm came with.

I tend to prefer 124gr 9mm ammo, and would have thought the 1911 platform would benefit from the heavier round, but this is the first time 115gr cycled without issue, while the 124gr bullets caused jams. The firearm is still fairly new with ~300 rounds through the barrel. Might it need more break-in time at the range?

I should add that both weights (115gr & 124gr) were accurate, so that is a non-issue. 115gr bullets are also cheaper. It's just my preference (as a reloader) to use 124 gr bullets.

 

[ericuda]

Hate to say but maybe get a new gun. All my 9mms shoot 115, 124 and 147 with no issues. There is something else going on, esp with factory ammo. You shouldn't have to switch springs for a gun to work. Maybe new though huh. Lube and clean well with factory springs and if still issues look elsewhere.

 

[WrongHanded]

I don't shoot 9mm, so my ability to help is pretty limited. But more information would be helpful.

What are the 124gr bullets? What is the OAL? What is the powder and charge? How do that load compared to the 115gr load? Do you have velocities for the loads? Does the 124gr load function correctly in other pistols? If so what are they?

Have you tried and 124gr factory loads in this gun to see how they work? If so, what ammo and what were the results?

 

[Crazy Horse]

The bullet brands I used were factory Browning 124gr and Magtech 115gr only. I don't have OAL, powder, or velocities for the rounds (I used up all the factory ammo). I have other 9mm's and have not experienced any issues with the 124gr - 115gr yes, but that has been because of the lighter load as has been explained on another forum in the past. due to 12 lb springs.

I could go back to using the OEM spring to see how that functions, I did for a few rounds but it did FTE once. I know the OEM spring is a 14lb spring and others have noted that 14lb is heavy for a 9mm round. Oddly enough 14lb is the same spring type as used in the 45acp, which is why I resorted to a lighter spring (12 then 10 lb).

I have cleaned it since getting back and will try again in a few days. Maybe it needs another couple of hundred rounds through it so everything can get settled.

TIA

 

[WrongHanded]

The bullet brands I used were factory Browning 124gr and Magtech 115gr only. I don't have OAL, powder, or velocities for the rounds (I used up all the factory ammo).

Sorry, I misunderstood that in your initial post. The way I read it, I thought you were using reloads.

I'd thoroughly clean it, if you haven't already. And then run the 115gr ammo through it for a while more. As far as the spring goes, you would think the gun would come with an appropriate spring in it. So I'd try running it more with that OEM spring, and consider contacting the manufacturer if you can't get it to run correctly. They may have some ideas.

 

[ericuda]

Holy cow dont change springs on a new gun or try to blame fail to whatever on springs.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Wronghanded.

Thanks. I just cleaned it, will clean it again before going to the range again. No worries on the misunderstanding, I did state that I like using 124 grain reloads, but when I get a new firearm, I typically like to run factory ammo for a bit before switching to reloaded ammo. I'll go back to using 115g ammo for a bit. It did cycle through without issue. Since I ran out of 124g ammo first, I couldn't run more heavier weighted bullets. I've run ~400 rounds through the gun. The first 200 cycled without any issues, this was the first trip to the range where I experience jams.

As for the spring, I looked at the specs and the site states a 14lb spring, which is the same tension on their 45 acp. I would have expected the lighter springs to function properly on 124g bullets that have more power than 115g bullets. Checking the slide on the 10lb springs is easier than when the 14lb spring is installed which is why it should recoil easier on the 10lb spring than the 14lb spring. Of course, this is the first time I adjust springs on a 1911. My other two are 45acp's and I've kept the springs stock, mainly because it seems odd that the manufacturer would use the same weight on both the 45acp and 9mm. It may be too light and cycling too fast too eject the spent case before closing the cycle. I have experienced that before when using a reload. The solution was to use a lighter load which slowed down the recycle action and gave the spent case more time to eject-thinking out loud, which actually starts to make sense.

It is all an enjoyable endeavor as I love my 1911 9mm. I have two more 1911's, but they are both 45acp (ATI Commander & RIA full length). Those have fired without any jams whatsoever, but they are heavier rounds with more powder.

 

[George P]

I have SIGs, HKs, Kahr, Glocks, S&W M&P in 9mm; all work with CCI/Speer 115 and 124 ammo without failures.

 

[railroader]

A 14lb. recoil spring is too strong for a five inch 9mm 1911. Here's a chart on the Dawson Precision website. Look down below where you order springs. I reload and run a 9lb. in my kimber 9mm.
https://dawsonprecision.com/recoil-firing-pin-springs-1911-government-size-by-wolff/

 

[LaneP]

It sounds like you never used the stock spring, is that the case? If so I would put it in and run the 124's to see how they perform. All my 9's are sub compacts (S&W, Ruger, Sig) but they all feed all bullet weights flawlessly with the stock spring they shipped with.

 

[ericuda]

Throw all the springs but factory away. It is not the springs.

 

[bdickens]

My understanding is that the 1911 platform starts to run into reliability problems whenever you start to move away from it's original design parameters, ie: .45ACP, 5" barrel, internal extractor, etc. Once you start doing things like making them shorter, making them out of different materials and especially making them in other calibers, reliability can go downhill.

I have a Ruger p89, a Glock 19 and even one of the original Taurus PT111s. None of them has ever hiccuped on anything I stuffed into it.

I had to buy a 1911 so I could have something to practice malfunction drills with.

Actually, I have never had any problems with it, either. But it is a .45, just like God (and JMB) intended.

My opinion: if you want a 1911, get a full size in .45ACP. If you want a 9mm pistol, get one that was designed for that cartridge.

YMMV....

 

[bdickens]

On second thought, why are you even messing with the springs before you even tried the dang gun out first to see if it worked?

 

[George P]

On second thought, why are you even messing with the springs before you even tried the dang gun out first to see if it worked?

Exactly! Shoot it as it came form the company - you'd be surprised at how good most of their engineers are at figuring out what components make it work flawlessly.....

 

[Riomouse911]

Get the gun broken in with 500-750 rounds or so then see how reliable it is.

One guy I work with plunked down a bunch for an STI 9mm 1911... and it jammed so badly I told him he couldn’t carry it on or off duty. I found out this was the second time it had been fired, and had about 125 total rounds through it.

Once all is properly worn/seated, and the gun is properly cleaned and lubed, if you’re still having issues I’d start looking for causes.

Stay safe.

 

[I6turbo]

I have SIGs, HKs, Kahr, Glocks, S&W M&P in 9mm; all work with CCI/Speer 115 and 124 ammo without failures.

Likewise, I can't tell any difference between the two, reliability wise, as both work without fail in all of my 9-mm guns, and have done so since the first rounds out of the box. A gun that won't run properly from the first rounds out of the box would worry me -- ESPECIALLY if I'm planning to carry it -- because I feel it's too close to a malfunction at any given time. If it's just a range gun, then I wouldn't be as concerned.

 

[94045]

It doesn't like that ammo. The projectile weight may have nothing to do with it. Could be projectile shape, overall length, case diameter, extractor groove dimensions, pressure curve or overall pressure etc.

 

[film495]

how does it fail to eject? stovepipe? I was amazed when I got my first semi-auto and looked at how the case ejected. It works, but it is sort of amazing that the extractor pulls the case out of chamber, and it hits a little ejector arm that just flicks it to the side when the momentum of the case being pulled backward hits it at the perfect speed, with the exact angle. It is a very fine dance with a small margin for the case to fling out at exactly the correct moment.

Just shoot the ammo that works reliably. I have some pistols that never had any failure with one type of ammo, and another type, all good major brand factory ammo, it won't make it through 20 rounds without a problem. I'm not trying to fix the gun, I just shooting the ammo that it feeds reliably.

 

[Crazy Horse]

It sounds like you never used the stock spring, is that the case? If so I would put it in and run the 124's to see how they perform. All my 9's are sub compacts (S&W, Ruger, Sig) but they all feed all bullet weights flawlessly with the stock spring they shipped with.

Yes I did use the stock spring. I changed it out after having a few fte issues. Other members having similar issues had success after changing out to a lighter spring which is the route I took. I'll be going back to the range and switch out to the OEM spring to see how things work after the full cleaning. Thx

 

[Crazy Horse]

It doesn't like that ammo. The projectile weight may have nothing to do with it. Could be projectile shape, overall length, case diameter, extractor groove dimensions, pressure curve or overall pressure etc.

Thx. I'll look at trying out different brand ammo.

 

[Dudedog]

This is Wolfes rating for springs

COLT 1911 FACTORY RECOIL SPRING NOTES
1. Factory rating for super .38 & 9mm is 14 Lbs.
2. Factory rating in .40 S&W is 19 Lbs.
3. Factory rating for the Colt .38 Spl. Midrange is 14 Lbs.
4. Factory rating for the Colt Ace .22 conversion is 14 Lbs.

(oopss left off factory standard for .45 Wolfe says 16.5lb)

I run a 14lb in my Springfield loaded 9mm 1911 and have no issues with 124gr bullets loaded to just make a bit above 125 PF (about 1030-1040 fps)

Is the gun broken in? ( a couple 100 rounds thru it)
Some need it some don't, neither of my 9mm Springfield Loaded model 1911s have had issues out of the box but some guns do.
Try some different 124s, maybe something with the bullet shape.


Failure to feed of failure to eject?
FTFs are usually a mag issue, failure to eject is a different matter.

Hope you get it worked out.

 

[czhen]

Try different magazines.

 

[czhen]

After trying mags, take a look at the tension of ejection rod.

 

[Snowdog]

Interesting. I have a Charles Daly HP that likes cheap Winchester white box 115gr FMJ while often failing to eject 124gr FMJ.
I don't carry or really even shoot it, so I haven't made any efforts to trouble-shoot.

 

[Crazy Horse]

I just have it a thorough cleaning and purchased Winchester white and Aquila 124gr ammo as well as monarch 115gr ammo. I put the stock spring back. Let's see how things work tomorrow.