12 caliber "patented ball and cap" pistol
- Thread starter zimmerstutzen
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I used to see those ads in the back of Popular Science back in the 1960s, along with the ads for the Webley Mark VI, converted to .45ACP for $14.95. Never got either one, as I was under 18 at the time, but I always regretted passing on the Webley.
The price on the Haig has gone up a bit, too: http://www.isellneatstuff.com/produ...-Haig-12-Cal-Cap-Gun-Powder-1961-Vintage.html
The price on the Haig has gone up a bit, too: http://www.isellneatstuff.com/produ...-Haig-12-Cal-Cap-Gun-Powder-1961-Vintage.html
kBob
Member
J.M. Fields used to carry them. Dad almost bought a nickled one with black plastic checkered grips. They came with a tin of 50 .12 caliber CB caps I believe this was the same as the 4mm short rimfire I had in Germany later. It appeared to be a round ball in a short rimfire case with primer only for propellant.
I had briefly a double action revolver much like one of the little "Wasp" ring cap revolvers in size. I fired it in my barracks room. I traded it away when I noted that shots at card covered catalogs frequently were barely ball deep in the catalog. The buddy that got it shot it a bit and it got dirty and balls stuck in the barrel and were driven out with a section of coat hanger
The gun in the add though was a full sized Single Action Army clone. Had it been in .22 LR it would have gone home with us. As it was .12 RF ammo was hard to find around our neck of the woods in 1968, so Dad ended up with an HS Schmitt SA revolver instead.
My favorite 4mm was a training rifle much like a K98 Mauser that had relief holes in the bottom of the barrel that vented into a hollow in the stock, which acted as a suppressor of sorts. I was told by a German of appropriate age that such were used by the local Hitler Jugend in training in the 1930's.
Anyway what I have been talking about is not BP related so I'm outa here....
-kBob
I had briefly a double action revolver much like one of the little "Wasp" ring cap revolvers in size. I fired it in my barracks room. I traded it away when I noted that shots at card covered catalogs frequently were barely ball deep in the catalog. The buddy that got it shot it a bit and it got dirty and balls stuck in the barrel and were driven out with a section of coat hanger
The gun in the add though was a full sized Single Action Army clone. Had it been in .22 LR it would have gone home with us. As it was .12 RF ammo was hard to find around our neck of the woods in 1968, so Dad ended up with an HS Schmitt SA revolver instead.
My favorite 4mm was a training rifle much like a K98 Mauser that had relief holes in the bottom of the barrel that vented into a hollow in the stock, which acted as a suppressor of sorts. I was told by a German of appropriate age that such were used by the local Hitler Jugend in training in the 1930's.
Anyway what I have been talking about is not BP related so I'm outa here....
-kBob
cheatin charlie
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haig pistol
I had a haig pistol back in the sixties. My friend and I managed to blow it up
by pouring fire cracker powder down the barrel and them seating the lead ball
on top of that. Really boosted the muzzle velocity worked great until we
started upping the charge. If I remember it blew in half along the glued seem.
No body got hurt during this experiment, so all grew up into old men.
Charlie
I had a haig pistol back in the sixties. My friend and I managed to blow it up
by pouring fire cracker powder down the barrel and them seating the lead ball
on top of that. Really boosted the muzzle velocity worked great until we
started upping the charge. If I remember it blew in half along the glued seem.
No body got hurt during this experiment, so all grew up into old men.
Charlie
Patocazador
Member
Before the Gun Control Act of 1968 it may have been perfectly legal for anyone under 18 to own any legal firearm (no NFA guns). I had a .22 Winchester auto rifle that I bought at age 14 with S&H Green Stamps.
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Missionary
Member
Greetings
Certainly would have to be clasified a parlor gun. Would make a fun weapon to pop those pesky flies that fly in those spiral formations. Maybe even a hovering dragon fly popper. I remember the Webly adds but this one escapes me.
Mike in Peru
Certainly would have to be clasified a parlor gun. Would make a fun weapon to pop those pesky flies that fly in those spiral formations. Maybe even a hovering dragon fly popper. I remember the Webly adds but this one escapes me.
Mike in Peru
robhof
Member
robhof
There was a shop in Mexico city back in the early 60's that sold miniature pistols and rifles, they had a 12" or so lever gun in 22 short and several small well made miniatures of percussion pistols and rifles. The special percussion caps were about the thickness of a pencil lead and they used bird shot. They had complete sets with powder flask and mold, in wooden case. We ended up with a small 22 cal brass cannon for $10, the only thing in the shop we could afford. It came with a small tin of powder, 6' of fuse and brass ramrod in small wood box with glass lid.
There was a shop in Mexico city back in the early 60's that sold miniature pistols and rifles, they had a 12" or so lever gun in 22 short and several small well made miniatures of percussion pistols and rifles. The special percussion caps were about the thickness of a pencil lead and they used bird shot. They had complete sets with powder flask and mold, in wooden case. We ended up with a small 22 cal brass cannon for $10, the only thing in the shop we could afford. It came with a small tin of powder, 6' of fuse and brass ramrod in small wood box with glass lid.
One online review of the Haig says that instead of actual .12 cartridges, it is actually a single-shot "cap and ball" pistol, using actual cap-gun paper caps as propellant, and #6 lead birdshot as the projectile. I've never actually seen one of these in real life, though they must have sold a bunch of them to keep running ads in national magazines year after year.
kBob
Member
nab-dab-it I'm wrong again! Well there WAS a full sized SAA type that was said to use .12 caliber that looked an awful lot like 4mm Zimmershutzen RF.
Those stick on Greenie caps were a hoot. A friend used them on a Parris rifle muzzle loader to launch cork balls. There were vents at the breech plug end of the barrel to prevent driving the balls fast enough to put out your sister's eye. Naturally one of our first uses of duck tape was to cover these vents......
Also had a Mattel two gun '73 like rig that fired spring powered plastic bullet from individual cases with or with out Greenies, but sounded best with them.
Had a number of the single shot spigot types that fired the hollow red plastic bullet with a common paper cap section torn off and fitted into a holder. One was a fairly good 1911A1 copy. Scrapping apart caps and drizzling the residue down the vent hole in the spigot could case bad things to happen.
When I was about six I had a "space gun" like cap pistol that used white roll caps that had square boom sections rather than dots and each took up most of the section between preferations. I wondered in later years if this was basically Maynard tape primers.
Cleaning up the book shelves out in the hallway recently I ran across the remains of some old zinc cap bombs, throwing dart like contraptions that could hold a paper cap... or in this case a single plastic ring cap section.
Caps were fun....I said CAPS WERE FUN.....Darn it turn on your hearing aids!
-kBob
Those stick on Greenie caps were a hoot. A friend used them on a Parris rifle muzzle loader to launch cork balls. There were vents at the breech plug end of the barrel to prevent driving the balls fast enough to put out your sister's eye. Naturally one of our first uses of duck tape was to cover these vents......
Also had a Mattel two gun '73 like rig that fired spring powered plastic bullet from individual cases with or with out Greenies, but sounded best with them.
Had a number of the single shot spigot types that fired the hollow red plastic bullet with a common paper cap section torn off and fitted into a holder. One was a fairly good 1911A1 copy. Scrapping apart caps and drizzling the residue down the vent hole in the spigot could case bad things to happen.
When I was about six I had a "space gun" like cap pistol that used white roll caps that had square boom sections rather than dots and each took up most of the section between preferations. I wondered in later years if this was basically Maynard tape primers.
Cleaning up the book shelves out in the hallway recently I ran across the remains of some old zinc cap bombs, throwing dart like contraptions that could hold a paper cap... or in this case a single plastic ring cap section.
Caps were fun....I said CAPS WERE FUN.....Darn it turn on your hearing aids!
-kBob
I had the Mattell "Fanner 50" single action revolver, which used the spring-loaded cartridge cases to project a plastic "bullet" when it was struck by the hammer. They were very realistic clones of a Colt SAA, with a working loading gate, and a broad smooth hammer that could be "fanned" for rapid fire. Mine came with a working single-shot derringer that was carried in a spring-loaded belt buckle on the gun belt, and could be fired by releasing a catch and pulling on both sides of the buckle to flip it out and fire it. Also, there was a copy of the Remington Rolling Block Buffalo Rifle that went with the set, all of which used the same spring-loaded cartridges with "Greenie Stick-Em Caps". Those were some fun toys, and looked enough like the real guns they were based on to be illegal to make or sell today.
[email protected]
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I had a Fanner 50 also. I use to take straight pins and cut them in half and
Take the part with the point and heat it red hot over my Mom's gas stove.
Then I would push it into the plastic bullet. When fired, they would stick into
A tree.
Take the part with the point and heat it red hot over my Mom's gas stove.
Then I would push it into the plastic bullet. When fired, they would stick into
A tree.
Outlawjoseywales
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Wow, thanks for posting. I was just thinking about this "revolver" the other day. I got one of these, or something similar out of the back of a mag (can't remember if a comic of what)
I was a solid plastic version of a colt that shot tiny balls (I'm guessing bird shot now) being propelled by a stick-on cap. Although very light weight being plastic and all, it felt great in my hand. The little ball could go though paper and a few other things.
Kept that thing for years, wish I still had it. For some reason I decided to cut the barrel to 4 1/2 like the cowboy shows and ruined it, but that's what kids do-dumb things. I was somewhere between 9-11 years old.
Thanks for the memories,
OJW
I was a solid plastic version of a colt that shot tiny balls (I'm guessing bird shot now) being propelled by a stick-on cap. Although very light weight being plastic and all, it felt great in my hand. The little ball could go though paper and a few other things.
Kept that thing for years, wish I still had it. For some reason I decided to cut the barrel to 4 1/2 like the cowboy shows and ruined it, but that's what kids do-dumb things. I was somewhere between 9-11 years old.
Thanks for the memories,
OJW
Speedo66
Member
I had one cap gun that had a brass cartridge case, a pot metal insert, and a plastic "bullet".
You pulled out the metal insert, put a cap inside the brass case, put the metal piece which had a hole in the middle back in, then the bullet in front. The gasses from the cap explosion went through the metal piece and fired the bullet out the front.
Well and good until I took an entire roll of caps and carefully opened each one, removed the powder, and placed it all in the cartridge case. I was about 10, but even then I knew it might ka-boom, so I put a glove on to protect my hand.
I even fired it outside my window in case it blew. As predicted, it blew up the gun, luckily in front of my hand, so still have 5 fingers on that hand, but it did numb my hand for a while.
You pulled out the metal insert, put a cap inside the brass case, put the metal piece which had a hole in the middle back in, then the bullet in front. The gasses from the cap explosion went through the metal piece and fired the bullet out the front.
Well and good until I took an entire roll of caps and carefully opened each one, removed the powder, and placed it all in the cartridge case. I was about 10, but even then I knew it might ka-boom, so I put a glove on to protect my hand.
I even fired it outside my window in case it blew. As predicted, it blew up the gun, luckily in front of my hand, so still have 5 fingers on that hand, but it did numb my hand for a while.
Busyhands94
Member
HEY! I am 19 and my childhood was filled with cap guns, BB guns, pocket knives, hatchets, fishing gear, and firecrackers of all sizes. You can bet I had an AWESOME childhood!
I had probably 4-5 SAA cap guns, a 73' Winchester looking gun made by Paris, a double rifle, a howdah looking Paris cap pistol with two barrels, several Remington .41 derringer copies, half a dozen cap bombs, and a lot of other cap-firing goodies.
My childhood was AWESOME.
Busyhands94
Member
Matter of fact I had more cap guns than anyone in my neck of the woods. Now that I am an adult and capable of purchasing and owning firearms, not much has changed except the guns.
Oh, did I mention I had an awesome childhood with all those cap guns?
Oh, did I mention I had an awesome childhood with all those cap guns?
Patocazador
Member
I had a chrome SA "cowboy" cap gun that I saved up for. Its cylinder turned and plastic 2-part cartridges loaded through the gate just like a SAA Colt. It fired the bullet part by way of a stick-on cap on the primer area. Range of the projectile was ~6-10 ft. It had an "N" in a circle as its logo and I think it was made by Nichols Co.
I loved that gun but my mother threw it out just because I shot my brother with it constantly. BUMMER!
I loved that gun but my mother threw it out just because I shot my brother with it constantly. BUMMER!
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Had one. The cap was a "greenee stick on cap"
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
I had one too. It was a rip off, back before the word was invented. It was about as close to false advertising as you could get.
The gun was made of plastic. Just two halves glued together forming the entire gun. Oh, it looked great from ten feet away, but it was made of black, injection molded plastic. Inside the molding the barrel was a cheap piece of tubing, extending the entire length of the gun, including through the 'cylinder'. The '.12 caliber balls' were pieces of birdshot. Dunno now what size, this was around 50 years ago. Cap and ball my eye. Yes, you stuck a Greenie Stik-M-Cap under the hammer so that when the hammer fell it fired the cap, which provided just enough energy for the 'ball' to leave the barrel.
No, I do not still have that piece of junk.
P.S. I hope nobody is dumb enough to pay $75 for that piece of junk.
I had one too. It was a rip off, back before the word was invented. It was about as close to false advertising as you could get.
The gun was made of plastic. Just two halves glued together forming the entire gun. Oh, it looked great from ten feet away, but it was made of black, injection molded plastic. Inside the molding the barrel was a cheap piece of tubing, extending the entire length of the gun, including through the 'cylinder'. The '.12 caliber balls' were pieces of birdshot. Dunno now what size, this was around 50 years ago. Cap and ball my eye. Yes, you stuck a Greenie Stik-M-Cap under the hammer so that when the hammer fell it fired the cap, which provided just enough energy for the 'ball' to leave the barrel.
No, I do not still have that piece of junk.
P.S. I hope nobody is dumb enough to pay $75 for that piece of junk.
ofitg
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The 50-year-old ad indicates that the Greenie Stick-on caps were loaded with a 4.4 mg explosive charge.
I believe that current federal regulations set the limit at 1.5 mg.
Evidently, our Big Nanny gov't thinks that the cap guns we played with in the 1960s were over-powered.....
I believe that current federal regulations set the limit at 1.5 mg.
Evidently, our Big Nanny gov't thinks that the cap guns we played with in the 1960s were over-powered.....
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
They were.
You could Shoot Your Eye Out with that thing!!
Daisy Model 25 pump-action BB Guns won't shoot through both sides of a bean can anymore either!
You could shoot your eye out with them too.
rc
You could Shoot Your Eye Out with that thing!!
Daisy Model 25 pump-action BB Guns won't shoot through both sides of a bean can anymore either!
You could shoot your eye out with them too.
rc
kBob
Member
My all time favorite "cap" gun a buddy brought back from the World Scout Jamboree trip to Japan, I believe it was 1971. It was a replica model RMC theatrical 1928A1 Thompson SMG.
It had brass "cartridges" with a hollow in the front into which one placed either three of the Japanese caps that came with it or five plain old US red roll cap sections cut to fit.
The gun loaded from a magazine and actually shoved those shells over a post in the chamber with force enough to set off the caps. The caps actually drove back the cartridge case with enough force to cycle the action. It actually worked like a 1928 on either semi or full auto. I seem to recall it came with a dozen cartridges and cyclic rate depended on the caps used and how dirty it was but varied around 400 rpm give or take 50 rpm.
He also had a Walther P38 that had more cartridge looking cap holders that could be fed by working the slide by hand, though the gun would not cycle it went "bang" and smoked enough that a wise acre friend that snatched it away declared it looked almost real pointed it at his foot and pulled the trigger nearly wet himself. It was enough like a P38 in disassembly and assembly that when I got to Germany I impressed folks when I stripped down a project partnership gun we were looking at and put it back together....blind folded.
After my buddy replaced his RMC Thompson with a 1928 real (fully taxed and papered) Thompson with cutts Compensator , finned barrel, vertical for grip, lyman rear sights, and fifty round drum he let his little brothers have the RMC gun. Being little brothers they immediately tore it to pieces. Oh and the real 28 had a varied cyclic rate as well depending on what loads we used but I can't recall it ever getting lower than 600 or so even with the old .45 ACP SWC FMJ match loads that barely cycled a 1911.
-kBob
It had brass "cartridges" with a hollow in the front into which one placed either three of the Japanese caps that came with it or five plain old US red roll cap sections cut to fit.
The gun loaded from a magazine and actually shoved those shells over a post in the chamber with force enough to set off the caps. The caps actually drove back the cartridge case with enough force to cycle the action. It actually worked like a 1928 on either semi or full auto. I seem to recall it came with a dozen cartridges and cyclic rate depended on the caps used and how dirty it was but varied around 400 rpm give or take 50 rpm.
He also had a Walther P38 that had more cartridge looking cap holders that could be fed by working the slide by hand, though the gun would not cycle it went "bang" and smoked enough that a wise acre friend that snatched it away declared it looked almost real pointed it at his foot and pulled the trigger nearly wet himself. It was enough like a P38 in disassembly and assembly that when I got to Germany I impressed folks when I stripped down a project partnership gun we were looking at and put it back together....blind folded.
After my buddy replaced his RMC Thompson with a 1928 real (fully taxed and papered) Thompson with cutts Compensator , finned barrel, vertical for grip, lyman rear sights, and fifty round drum he let his little brothers have the RMC gun. Being little brothers they immediately tore it to pieces. Oh and the real 28 had a varied cyclic rate as well depending on what loads we used but I can't recall it ever getting lower than 600 or so even with the old .45 ACP SWC FMJ match loads that barely cycled a 1911.
-kBob
Patocazador
Member
The main thing that I noticed about a Thompson SMG was how danged heavy they are. I had an M1 version from WWII that only accepted the stick magazines. I had to sell it to the local PD when I gave up my Cl 3 license as it was illegal for private ownership and only available as a 'dealer's sales sample'.
I still have several of those 30 round stick magazines but nothing to use them in.
I still have several of those 30 round stick magazines but nothing to use them in.
That thing was a cheap cap gun which had top of the barrel slotted with a small steel tube riveted into face where caps were detonated and then glued in the slot. it used a single standard roll cap for the charge, and #6 shot for the ball. A cap was placed over tube hole in hammer impact face, , hammer cocked and then fired. With luck it would penetrate a single page of newsprint at a couple feet. Doubling up or tripling caps helped some, but not by much.
In short, they were piece of junk.
Oh, don’t ask how I know all this, just because in the early 1950s I fell for and bought said piece of junk.
zimmerstutzen
Member
Back during the mid 1950's Davy Crockett craze, at age 6, I got a Christmas present of a cheap bonded leather possible bag and a pop gun that used muzzle loaded cork balls and would fire them across the living room. I really did accidentally shoot my 4 yr old sister with one, but the little b----- screamed bloody murder and claimed I did it a second time and I never saw the cork balls again even though I wasn't even playing with it at the time. Then she laughed about it afterward. She is still a B----.
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