12 ga.shotgun ammo

[Krispy]

maybe this needs to go in the ammo section,but i'll try it here first.
all my dog hunting , shotgun buckshot shooting buddies swear by the winchester HV 1450 advertised velocity 00 buck ..last week a confirmed kill by rangefinder and stepping off a 92 yard kill.....lucky yes
i agree...but when i go to order this ammo from a vendor, it list a MV
of 1210 fps....now the whole reason these guys tout winchester HV is
the velocity advantage over federal and remington....anyone know why the box says 1450 and the vendors says 1210..maybe the factory used a 30" test barrel vs a normal 28" hunting barrel...btw it was a clean kill,neck shot, one pellet @ 92 yards confirmed....i know , i know
a 22 thru the eye would do the same,,but our club is limited TOO BUCKSHOT ONLY... i still want to know why the difference in velocity..

 

[Youngster]

1210 fps looks to be the 3" 15 pellet X12XC3B5 version of the Supreme 00, you probably want the 2.75 9 pellet SB1200 or the 3" 12 pellet SB12300, which is the 1450 fps stuff.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I'd worry more about the ability of a given load to pattern well a good deal more than I'd be concerned with a couple hundred feet per second in muzzle velocity. Pattern your gun and load and determine the maximum range at which the combination can deliver high-probability lethal patterns, learn to estimate that range in the field, and try not to exceed it.

A one-pellet kill with buckshot at extended range is a fluke, an accident, and should not be used as an excuse to be shooting at game animals outside the reasonable range of the gun, load and shooter's ability to deliver clean kills.

Try some of the full velocity (1325 FPS MV) 00 buckshot loads with FliteControl wads out of a relatively open choke (CYL or ImpCyl). I know it sounds counterintuitive, but try it anyway. You might be surprised. And if you just gotta gotta gotta have high velocity, last I knew Hornady advertised its TAP-FPD red hull 00 load at 1600 FPS. http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detailde6c.html?id=36&sID=82&pID=1

 

[oneounceload]

At almost 100 yards, those pellets have slowed WAY down, making MV a non-issue at that point

 

[NG VI]

Two inches of shotgun barrel is pretty meaningless for velocity. They seem to peak and plateau somewhere in the early teens, barrels in the 24+" range often develop less velocity than an 18-20" barrel.

A buckshot only club?

 

[Krispy]

Our club leases's land that is buckshot only.. the land lease is cheap but is surrounds a county airport....the land is swampy and produces a lot of deer ..around the swamp is countless acres of beanfields and cow pastures...the airport authority wants ALLLLLL deer removed by any means safetly..they don't care if it wounded or not so long as it stays off their runways...bean farmers and cattle farmers ditto.. their law firm requires every hunter to sign an agreement to use buckshot only...it's tough on our members to watch deer in a 20 acre field with no rifle in hand..so we take 100 yard shots with buckshot..if we get a clean kill so be it, if we wound the deer to go off and die so be it.
the landowners , airport authority and INSURANCE COMPANIES like it..

 

[oneounceload]

barrels in the 24+" range often develop less velocity than an 18-20" barrel.

not really - my 32" barrels chrono right at spec with my loads per the manual

 

[Fred Fuller]

if we wound the deer to go off and die so be it.

Sorry, but that's not an attitude of which I can approve. I was raised to have more consideration for animals than that, even those considered vermin. The 'old men' including my grandfathers who trained me would not tolerate anything else.

At the very least, if your group is going to continue such activity, you should consider using premium 3" magnum loads of 000 buckshot out of whatever barrel will pattern it best for you. Back some years ago I was experimenting with pushing the effective range of buckshot, and trying Federal Premium 000 out of a Patternmaster choke tube in an 18" barrel at 100 yards. On an E type silhouette target, it would usually get from 3 to 5 pellets into the target. If it's acceptable in your circumstances, I'd give Dixie Tri-Ball a look as well. http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html

 

[grampster]

"Sorry, but that's not an attitude of which I can approve. I was raised to have more consideration for animals than that, even those considered vermin. The 'old men' including my grandfathers who trained me would not tolerate anything else."

I would second Lee's remarks. If the shot could not be considered a kill shot, it should not be taken, irrespective of what the airport people and farmers want.

 

[Robert]

if we get a clean kill so be it, if we wound the deer to go off and die so be it.

That has to be the most unethical thing I have read in a long time. No hunter should take a stance like that.

If the shot could not be considered a kill shot, it should not be taken, irrespective of what the airport people and farmers want.

Correct.

Here in CO if you wound and animal you are legally required to do everything you can to find the animal. If you do not do that then you are subject to some hefty fines and can even have your hunting gear impounded.

 

[Walkalong]

if we wound the deer to go off and die so be it.

As hunters we have an ethical responsibility to only take shots where we know our chance of a clean kill are extremely good. If it is not, we should pass and wait for a better shot.

To take a shot at an animal when we know the chance is very good that it will only be wounded, and where it will run off and die slowly in pain is just plain wrong.

I don't care if the airport personnel, farmers, and insurance companies like it or not.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Gus is right, in Colorado that kind of hunting would likely result in fines and suspension of priviledges if not outright criminal charges.

Even on a private land 'cull' for predators or nusiance critters you should be looking to make a humane kill.

 

[hso]

if we wound the deer to go off and die so be it.

That's not hunting. Even for "pest control" it would be questionable.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Add me to the list of those who think your ethics need work.

In over 50 years of deer hunting I've lost a total of three deer I did not recover. They stand out more than some of the easy,clean harvests.

I've no idea of how many I've harvested, nor the number of hunters I've shared a day with. I doubt many of those hunters would applaud your ethics or your attitude.

 

[proven]

can't say much more than others have already said, but you need to rethink your ways.

 

[Chindo18Z]

if we wound the deer to go off and die so be it.

Really piss-poor hunting ethic. Might as well just poison them instead.

If the deer are such a problem, the airport authority or lease should organize deer drives.

I worked at a deer infested regional airport (big enough for daily commercial airliners and occasional visits by Air Force One). We took our deer utilizing the same standards as would be expected anywhere else in the state. And did it with bows, primitive firearms, or 12 gauge slugs. Stands, still hunting, and drives.

 

[Spartan Gladiator]

I would suggest and advocate to changing that rule. Better to require the use of a 30-30 and training on checking your downfield potential hazards. Just my 2 cents

 

[Powderman]

if we get a clean kill so be it, if we wound the deer to go off and die so be it.
the landowners , airport authority and INSURANCE COMPANIES like it..

Wrong. DEAD wrong. Wrong in so many ways it's hard to list.

If you are going to hunt, you take the responsibility and the obligation to make a clean, swift kill.

If you can't do that, do NOT shoot.

If you do it deliberately, you do not deserve to hunt.

 

[orangeninja]

I don't have much to say in regards to the OP's ethics that hasn't already been said but I'll say it anyway, your ethics (and humanity) need a little tuning. If you guys can't make a clean kill, I suggest learning how to hunt. Almost anyone can be a "killer" but it takes skill to be a "hunter".

 

[Art Eatman]

I see less of a problem with Krispy than with the law firm which obviously has no concept of ethical shooting of animals of whatever sort.

My notion of "what to do" would be to contact the wildlife agency and report the law firm for requiring an illegal form of hunting: Crippling animals deliberately, and wasting meat. Letters to editors and complaints to legislators shine the light of publicity on an unethical practice.

It's all well and good to want clear runways, but the clearing need not be done in an immoral and unethical manner.

 

[orangeninja]

Of course if they want a clear runway they could try this new fangled invention I just heard about...it's called a FENCE!!!!

 

[JShirley]

Um, fencing may not work. I was involved in a situation years ago where an electrified fence and chemical repellent couldn't keep the deer out of a planted field. It was an island that was a "game preserve"- which meant that someone thought it ethical that the deer be allowed to starve because they had no predation until the local guards periodically walked up and culled some with their .38s!

Krispy, I get that this is pest control for you, along with meat hunting. Along with most others here, I would strongly suggest you do your best to kill humanely. You might also consider checking to see if bows and crossbows are allowed. I'd personally be happier taking a 50-yard shot with a crossbow than with a shotgun with buckshot. I've let bucks at 50 yards walk, which is just one of several reasons why I never use buckshot anymore.

John

 

[Lord Palmerston]

We and you, are supposed to be hunters, not killers. Good hunting means ethic hunting.

 

[Tom Held]

St. Hubertus

The patron saint of hunters is Saint Hubertus. The International Order of
Saint Hubertus was founded in 1620 and still exists today. I would offer their motto in response to Krispy.

Deum Diligiti Familia Dilegentes / Honor God By Honoring His Creatures.


As hunters and sportsment this part of our responsibility.

Once I watched a group of farmers and their boys shoot over 30 deer out of a soybeam field in two days in June. They did this "legally" with crop damage permits from the DNR. Since killing them dead in the beanfield would cause problems when combining in the fall they shot them in the stomach so they would run out of the field instead and die somewhere. Saint Hubert would not have been pleased.

Tom

 

[Mark8252]

Sportsman Attitude

the landowners , airport authority and INSURANCE COMPANIES like it..


I cannot agree with any of this. This is the definition of unsportsman like conduct. It is your responsibility to make an honest effort for a clean kill.
Whats next............shoot little birds out of trees? Or stop signs? I hope you are not teaching this to young shooters.