125 grain coated and HAP in 9 mm, Bullseye loads?

[Buck13]

In a moment of weakness, I ordered 500 coated Missouri 125 grain SWC. What I'm going to load them over, I'm not sure! Appropriate powders that I have enough of to bother working with are Trail Boss, Titegroup, HP-38, Universal, Unique, WSF, and Power Pistol, although barely enough in the case of Unique and WSF (and plenty of Blue Dot and Longshot, but those are probably too slow for this application). Thoughts on charge and OAL?

I also have 1000 HAP 125s, which are probably a better choice anyway, but they won't make such pretty holes. Charge suggestions for these also appreciated.

Until I can get a .45, I'm trying to practice with my Dan Wesson PM9. For the moment I only have the original springs. Velocities as slow as possible consistent with good accuracy and cycling are the goal.

 

[rperyam]

I've always liked 4.3 grains of 231-HP 38. I use it for all of my 124 grain 9 MM loads. Clean shooting and very accurate.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Some of my favorite loads. All at 1.120" OAL.

5.5 gr of Longshot, 4.1 gr of Titegroup, 4.5 gr of Auto Comp, 4.9 gr of WSF, 4.5 gr of Universal,5.5 gr of BE-86, 5.5 gr of Universal

 

[Buck13]

I've always liked 4.3 grains of 231-HP 38. I use it for all of my 124 grain 9 MM loads. Clean shooting and very accurate.

What OAL? Hodgdon shows 125 HAP with HP38 as max at 3.3 grains, but OAL is only 1.060.

 

[rperyam]

I go about 1.150 OAL. I say about because I load on a Dillon Square Deal. Most loads tend to vary between 1.14 and 1.16. Never have ever gotten consistent, every round the exact same OAL. Must be me. I load FMJ and Nukes from RMR in 9 MM.

 

[Skgreen]

Some of my favorite loads. 4.5 gr of Universal,5.5 gr of BE-86, 5.5 gr of Universal

Was one of those supposed to be Unique?

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Yes, I forgot to put it on, but it was the same as Universal. 5.5 gr is what I have in my records.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I go about 1.150 OAL. I say about because I load on a Dillon Square Deal. Most loads tend to vary between 1.14 and 1.16. Never have ever gotten consistent, every round the exact same OAL. Must be me. I load FMJ and Nukes from RMR in 9 MM.

Are you sure you have the correct seating stem in your seating die for the bullet your using? You shouldn't be having that kind of problem.

 

[lordpaxman]

Thoughts on charge and OAL?

Looks like you’re on Hodgdon’s site, I recommend starting at their start charge. For faster powders like TG and 231, the start charge would cycle my PM9. The faster powders at a given velocity will result in less recoil. It doesn’t sound like you’re worried about meeting a PF so you may not have to go higher. TG will be hot, but very precise and accurate, 231 is a good choice too.
Max COL will be determined by your barrel, your COL needs to fit in the mag and feed correctly. Good luck with the SWC - load a few dummies at lengths you want and see how they feed.

Hodgdon shows 125 HAP with HP38 as max at 3.3 grains, but OAL is only 1.060

I see 1.069”. The bullet profile tends to make a short Max COL, although in my PM9 Max COL with an XTP is 1.270”. I usually load around 1.120”. You can adjust the COL, just be advised if you go shorter than the published spec, you’re increasing pressure and would need to adjust the charge appropriately. TG gets erratic if you go shorter than published specs.

 

[gifbohane]

I go about 1.150 OAL. I say about because I load on a Dillon Square Deal. Most loads tend to vary between 1.14 and 1.16. Never have ever gotten consistent, every round the exact same OAL. Must be me. I load FMJ and Nukes from RMR in 9 MM.

I use the same. I need it for my CZ with a smallish chamber.

 

[Random 8]

Those HAPS are touchy. No personal experience, but I've noted Hornady runs significantly lower charges with them than with XTPs or RN bullets.

Edit. I don't know where I got that idea from. Thought I remembered it, but referencing my manuals didn't pan it out. Nevermind I guess??

 

[lordpaxman]

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/hap#!/

“Modeled after the legendary XTP®bullet design, HAP® bullets are further refined into the perfect competition projectile.”
“Expansion isn't an issue in action pistol shooting, so we removed the expansion-aiding skives.”

 

[LiveLife]

Missouri 125 grain SWC ... HAP 125 ... Thoughts on charge and OAL?

To determine Max OAL, you would need to use the barrel until dummy rounds (no powder, no primer) dropped into the chamber freely with a "plonk" and spin without hitting the rifling.

Then to determine Working OAL, you would need to load the magazine with dummy rounds and release the slide without riding it. If Max OAL would not reliably feed and chamber dummy rounds, incrementally decrease the OAL by .005" until they do.

For Hornady 125 gr HAP, these were Max/Working OALs for various barrels and pistols I tested from "Barrel vs Max/Working OAL ..." thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...col-for-reference.848462/page-2#post-12249361

• Glock 22, KKM 40-9 conversion barrel - Hornady 125 gr HAP: 1.125"
• M&P Shield - Hornady 125 gr HAP: 1.120"
• Glock 22, Tactical Kinetics 40-9 conversion barrel - Hornady 125 gr HAP: 1.070"
• Glock 23, Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrel - Hornady 125 gr HAP: 1.045"

For SWC (which is usually made from RN profile with non-feed ramp bump contact areas removed), most load with thumbnail thickness of shoulder above the case mouth to determine the OAL. For MBC 124 gr SWC, that's 1.045".

Bullseye loads? ... Trail Boss, Titegroup, HP-38, Universal, Unique, WSF, and Power Pistol ...

Dan Wesson PM9 ... original springs. Velocities as slow as possible consistent with good accuracy and cycling are the goal.

I am reading bullseye match loads? A seasoned bullseye match shooting mentor taught me to reload and I would started with longest Max/Working OAL and most conservative published load data for initial powder work up. If start charges produced accuracy, I would "work down/download" powder charges until accuracy dropped or slide would not reliably cycle. Then I would incrementally decrease OAL by .005" to see if groups got smaller. (Of course, I would keep SWC OAL same for reliable feeding/chambering)

For slower velocity target loads, faster burning powders tend to burn more efficiently at lower charges to produce consistent enough chamber pressure build/max average pressures for accuracy. So I would suggest testing faster burning than W231/HP-38 which means using HP-38 and Titegroup. (Bulky Trail Boss was meant for filling larger case volume .38 Special and Hodgdon doesn't show load data for 9mm 124/125 gr and likely not suitable for smaller case volume 9mm, especially for SWC/JHP bullets that gets seated deeper into the case neck)

Hodgdon load data - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

• 9mm 125 gr Hornady HAP HP-38 COL 1.069" Start 2.8 gr (753 fps) - Max 3.3 gr (876 fps)
• 9mm 125 gr Hornady HAP Titegroup COL 1.069" Start 2.8 gr (816 fps) - Max 3.2 gr (930 fps)
• 9mm 125 gr Lead CN HP-38 COL 1.125" Start 3.9 gr (1,009 fps) - Max 4.4 gr (1,086 fps)
• 9mm 125 gr Lead CN Titegroup COL 1.125" Start 3.6 gr (1,002 fps) - Max 4.0 gr (1,096 fps)

If Max/Working OAL for your PM9 is longer than published OAL, I would reference start charges and work down until accuracy/slide cycling is not consistent. If Max/Working OAL is shorter than published, I would consider reducing start charges by .2-.3 gr and work down.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Might be late, but I use the MBC 125 SWC in 9mm.
OAL needs to be reduced for feeding and chambering.
I used 1.059”, be sure your loads plunk and twist freely in your chamber.
Because they’re seated deep, charges must also be reduced, I used 3.3 WST after working up from 3.0.
They shot exceptionally well in my Kimber 1911 even though the shoulder would get dinged somewhere in the feed cycle.
Bullseye would be my choice outside of WST.