12GA reloading question about hulls

[wild03]

New to reloading and i'm just collecting material and information, so i have some cheap winchester hulls from those game loads bulk boxes from walmart. 2 3/4 1oz #8

i also have claybuster cb2100-12 wads.

looking at the hulls they have an insert inside that keep the wad from reaching the back of the hull. insert extends about 1/2" from the bottom

can these be reloaded? is the entire 1/2 inch space expected to be taken up by the powder so the wad will never hit the insert once powder is added? or is it ok for the wad to stop at the insert and for the powder if it doesn't reach the insert to have that air gap.

Just trying to understand the process and info is appreciated, Thank you.

 

[Stumper]

Those hulls are made with the Reifenhauser ( Sp?). Process. The base wad wedges the plastic tube in place against the metal of head. Yes they are reloadable. Most hulls are made that way nowadays. .....and most are only good foe a few reloads. The cheap Winchester hulls are considered some of the least desirable but they can be reloaded.

 

[Saluki91]

New to reloading and i'm just collecting material and information, so i have some cheap winchester hulls from those game loads bulk boxes from walmart. 2 3/4 1oz #8

i also have claybuster cb2100-12 wads.

looking at the hulls they have an insert inside that keep the wad from reaching the back of the hull. insert extends about 1/2" from the bottom

can these be reloaded? is the entire 1/2 inch space expected to be taken up by the powder so the wad will never hit the insert once powder is added? or is it ok for the wad to stop at the insert and for the powder if it doesn't reach the insert to have that air gap.

Just trying to understand the process and info is appreciated, Thank you.

Those wads are made for a straight wall hull. The Winchester hull you have is tapered, so they are - at best - a poor combination.

Since you already have the wads, look for some straight wall hulls that also have published data for those wads... Federal, Fiocchi, Cheddite, etc. Since you are new to shot shell reloading, I suggest buying a flat of something like these, enjoy shooting them up, and then reload them. If you condition the hulls, take your time, and use the proper components, you will get several reloads from them.

Another option is to buy primed hulls from someplace like Ballistic Products or Precision Reloading. This is a great way to go if you are having problems finding primers.

You may be tempted to use hulls you pick up at the local club or sporting clays range. Resist this temptation until you know how to separate the wheat from the chaff. There is a lot that could go wrong (with little to gain) until you know what you are doing.

Whatever you choose - make sure you are using published load data, and following it like a baker's recipe. Don't substitute components.

Of course, you could also sell or trade those wads for something like CB1100-12 or CB8100-12, and use them with high quality tapered hulls (AA, STS, Gun Club, etc.)... but that is a discussion for a different thread.

Good luck, and good shooting!

 

[Skeptic13]

When I started reloading shotgun I ordered a bunch of once fired Winchester AA hulls. They are available from multiple sources on the internet at a reasonable price and they can be reloaded multiple times. There are also other brands of once fired hulls available. I had been collecting the cheaper hulls from the bulk packs but they all ended up in the trash.

 

[kalielkslayer]

For 20 years I only loaded Win AA or Rem STS. I believed they were the best available. I loaded primarily for waterfowl but some for sporting clays.

Then the world went to steel and I tried to learn how to reload that.

That’s when I learned about straight walled cases; Fiocchi, Cheddite. (More volume, less pressure IMHO)

Now I only load for upland and sporting clays, but I only use straight walled cases. I have several 5 gallon buckets of AA cases I’ll probably never use.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

For 20 years I only loaded Win AA or Rem STS. I believed they were the best available. I loaded primarily for waterfowl but some for sporting clays.

Then the world went to steel and I tried to learn how to reload that.

That’s when I learned about straight walled cases; Fiocchi, Cheddite. (More volume, less pressure IMHO)

Now I only load for upland and sporting clays, but I only use straight walled cases. I have several 5 gallon buckets of AA cases I’ll probably never use.

Snoozer in the back of the class wakes up, slowly raises hand, “Scuse me, cuz but, did y’all just say something about buckets of reloading supplies y’all ain’t ever gonna use…?”

 

[tmd16556]

I’ll load the cheap hulls. Winchester loads are interchangeable between most of their hulls. The cheap ones don’t crimp as well as the older AA hulls in my experience. Most do fine but expect some rejects. As long as the shot doesn’t leak out they work.

 

[Bandit67]

GeoDudeFlorida
You woke up first but I'll be next in line for those AA hulls if it doesn't work out for you.
@kalielkslayer
PM me if you can't make a deal with GeoDudeFlorida

 

[Random 8]

Ditto on the cheap win hulls not crimping well. They are usually fine, but about 1/15 will just set up 'weird." With a good load fit the weird ones will still fire fine.

I have a disease where it causes me physical pain to throw anything away without utilizing some utility from it. These Win hulls are often mixed in with the bags of range hulls I get for free from my local trap club. I generally use them for a single firing in doubles, skeet, or sporting clays where I do not wish to pick up empties. They are more of a straight wall design than the Win AA hulls. A bit of a hybrid. I've found any load designed for the AA hull to work well in them.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Generally speaking, hulls with 8 point crimp hold better than those with 6 point. I have found Remington Gun Club hulls to be pretty good.
RIO makes good ammo but not for reloading, the primers are odd size, 209's will fall out, metric maybe?

 

[rfwobbly]

I suggest you get a shotgun cartridge reloading manual and read it. Then follow their suggested loads to the letter. Lyman No5 is a good one.

You can't "mix and match" components in shotgun reloading, like you can in metallic reloading.

 

[Howa 9700]

Generally speaking, hulls with 8 point crimp hold better than those with 6 point. I have found Remington Gun Club hulls to be pretty good.
RIO makes good ammo but not for reloading, the primers are odd size, 209's will fall out, metric maybe?

Back when I was loading a lot of shotgun, that was my experience as well. Initially, would try to load any empty I could find......but 95% of what I was loading was 1 1/8 oz loads for trap, skeet or quail hunting. The cheap stuff from Federal would have 6 point crimp and flimsy plastic and if it didn't leak shot, would split after a couple loads. Kept eliminating them all and eventually got to where I would buy Win AA trap or skeet by the case.....mostly for the cases......which never leaked and if you did things right, could be loaded at least 5 to 8 times. Remington trap loads a distant 2nd. The ribbed plastic Remington seemed more brittle.

 

[PapaG]

I had been reloading many years when the original AA came out. I found a couple hundred "new" once fired hulls and loaded them for years. In fact, dig deep enough in history and you'll find that Winchesters' first marketing pitch got squashed before it hit the press. "Plastic Fifties" indicating that they could be loaded that many times. I'm sure some of mine hit half that number. The new stuff, not including AAs, are one or two and pitch.

 

[RealGun]

Those hulls are made with the Reifenhauser ( Sp?). Process. The base wad wedges the plastic tube in place against the metal of head. Yes they are reloadable. Most hulls are made that way nowadays. .....and most are only good foe a few reloads. The cheap Winchester hulls are considered some of the least desirable but they can be reloaded.

For cowboy action, today's Win AA is quite desirable, because they are one of few with smooth surfaces and shuck more reliably without ejectors. They are 8-point crimps and less inclined to get bad crimps when reloaded. They reload a number of times just fine. Ribbed imports may be more brittle and break around a 6-point crimp. The ribbing can cause spent shells to stick a bit and cause lost time in competition or even a penalty for a spent hull left in a discarded gun.

Avoid buying new hulls, because establishing a new crimp fold is problematic using additional gear. Deal with that later, if necessary.

Buy some thin shot cards, if not getting flush crimps. They can at least save some loads until other adjustments are made.

 

[MEHavey]

Remington Gun Club hulls...

^ ^ ^ ^ THESE ^ ^ ^ ^
Pick them up all over the ranges
People simply fire & pitch them.
Dumb... Grasshoppa.

They load exactly the same as AA/same Powders/Amounts/Wads.
and last 7-9 re-loads

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Cheap hulls that don't hold a crimp well probably aren't patterning well either.

 

[RealGun]

Cheap hulls that don't hold a crimp well probably aren't patterning well either.

How do you suppose it matters in a shotgun? Am curious.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

How do you suppose it matters in a shotgun? Am curious.

Poor crimp can cause inconsistent pressures and poor patterns.

I load a lot of "popper loads" for dog training. Rice or millet is substituted for shot.
With little weight for the powder charge to push the crimp has to be good for pressure to build and provide a loud report. Pressure differences with poor hulls are easily heard.

 

[RealGun]

Poor crimp can cause inconsistent pressures and poor patterns.

I load a lot of "popper loads" for dog training. Rice or millet is substituted for shot.
With little weight for the powder charge to push the crimp has to be good for pressure to build and provide a loud report. Pressure differences with poor hulls are easily heard.

With lead shot that would be different, correct? It is the patterning I was questioning.

 

[PapaG]

^ ^ ^ ^ THESE ^ ^ ^ ^
Pick them up all over the ranges
People simply fire & pitch them.
Dumb... Grasshoppa.

They load exactly the same as AA/same Powders/Amounts/Wads.
and last 7-9 re-loads

My absolute favorites for the past ten years.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

With lead shot that would be different, correct? It is the patterning I was questioning.

Lead shot provides the weight needed to build adequate pressure. Hull quality and crimp still have a large effect on pressure and patterns.

 

[entropy]

^ ^ ^ ^ THESE ^ ^ ^ ^
Pick them up all over the ranges
People simply fire & pitch them.
Dumb... Grasshoppa.

They load exactly the same as AA/same Powders/Amounts/Wads.
and last 7-9 re-loads

I do load them, but my Ljutic doesn't like them as reloads. Factory, they don't stick, but reloads did. That was before I got a Super Sizer. I might have to try them again in the Ljutic. They work fine in my Remingtons.

With lead shot that would be different, correct? It is the patterning I was questioning.

You don't load for Trap, I take it?

Actually the important part of the crimp is stack height, which is corrected by using wads that produce the correct stack height. Downrange makes several wads in the WAA-12 style, for instance, that are various heights, and can be used to adjust the stack height for a correct crimp. If your stacks are too short, toss a Cheerio in the wad before you drop the shot (being careful to hold the drop tube up from bottoming out a bit, so you don't smash the Cheerio or get it stuck in the drop tube. (Don't ask how I know this......)

 

[wild03]

Thanks for the replies, I have the Lee 2nd ed reloading book and i just ordered the lyman shotshell 5th ed.
I don't do much shooting but enjoy experimenting and plinking. the loads don't have to be the best just need to exit the gun without injury or damage to the gun. kind of like that youtube channel that shoots all kinds of stuff out of their shotguns...Taofledermaus or something. I will not be going to that extreme of loading anything i can find. but will start with 1oz slugs, have all i need to cast those.
In other words, i do not like the restrictions of specific hulls and wads, but more like can one make their own wads or modify a wad...i know i'm way off from that but that is my goal many years from now. sort of how to do with what is at hand. to make a hole in something not too far way.

 

[entropy]

Yeah......I've been loading shotgun shells for 49 years, and the most I stray from printed data is what I mentioned in my last post. As has been mentioned, reloading shells is not the same as reloading metallic cartridges.

If you want to load slugs, Ballistic Products has a manual for that, and the materials.

 

[Random 8]

Thanks for the replies, I have the Lee 2nd ed reloading book and i just ordered the lyman shotshell 5th ed.
I don't do much shooting but enjoy experimenting and plinking. the loads don't have to be the best just need to exit the gun without injury or damage to the gun. kind of like that youtube channel that shoots all kinds of stuff out of their shotguns...Taofledermaus or something. I will not be going to that extreme of loading anything i can find. but will start with 1oz slugs, have all i need to cast those.
In other words, i do not like the restrictions of specific hulls and wads, but more like can one make their own wads or modify a wad...i know i'm way off from that but that is my goal many years from now. sort of how to do with what is at hand. to make a hole in something not too far way.

There are absolutely parallels to be drawn across shotgun loads. For example, you can shoot most any combination of wad, hull, primer, with 1 to 1 1/8 oz lead payload over 17.5 gr of Red Dot. You'll find safe loads listed across most all component varieties, just load what fits your hulls. They will shoot mild and due to the nature of Red Dot, will generally yield acceptable ballistics even if the crimp isn't perfect.

I do a fair amount of similar experimentation to use up random or obsolete stuff given to me or obtained as part of auction lots. One of my favorite was a .68 caliber round ball loaded in a WAA12R style wad with a filler and overshot over a modest charge of Red Dot. Turned my 12 GA into a 68 caliber musket. Made for lots of fun plinking in the back yard on a "redcoat" target cut out of scrap OSB.