135 Gold Dot Short Barrel 38/357 loads

[TransAmConvert]

First post, Hi all!
I wanted to do a little continuation of this thread:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/similar-recipe-for-gold-dot-135-short-barrel.318861/

I made up some loads and tested them:
38+P for my S&W 442
357 for my speed six and 3" S&W 66
All made with WSP primers.

My model 66 is a "fast" gun, I know this from previous work. It also has a very small gap.

I had good results with power pistol in both loadings.
6.3gr power pistol got 891 fps in the 442, with good accuracy and low SD of 17.

8.6gr power pistol got 1177 fps in the ruger, and 1226 in the M66. There's probably room to warm this load up a bit. SDs are in the 20s and 30s.

Downside is power pistol gives a lot of flash and report, so I was looking for an alternative powder. I had true blue on hand and tried that:

6.3 true blue got 874 fps and good accuracy, from the 442 though the primers were a bit flattened. Flash was there but somewhat reduced. Need to shoot some at night to compare.

In 357 9.0gr of true blue netted 1130 fps from the ruger and 1185 from the M66. Again reduced flash and lower SD than the power pistol loads. Recoil feel was maybe a bit sharper than the power pistol.

9.5gr reached 1205 and 1245 fps, however the cases stuck on extraction (not terribly just a tap with my palm instead of a push with one finger) in the model 66 only and the primers were flattened (but not cratered) with a bit of an imprint from the breech face. The western data has a max of 10.3gr for a 140gr bullet so I was hoping I could get more out of this powder but it looks like it isn't happening. Regardless I'm going to cci-500 primers for the next test, the wsp are maybe soft for this.

It "feels" like true blue is a faster powder than power pistol. Most charts list it as slower but I don't know. The fact that it's showing pressure signs with less velocity indicates otherwise.

Can anyone recommend an alternative powder (and a starting load) to try which will get 1150-1200 fps in 357 while minimizing flash, report and recoil in these short barrels? I know I don't ask for much. If I can get my hands on it I'll test it and report.

 

[Charlie98]

Slower powders are going to give you flash and report, it's hard to avoid it. You could try 2400, I'll bet you could meet your velocity expectations... but you'll have to see about the flash and report in your particular pistol.

135 is a fairly light bullet in the .38/.357, you might try something like Unique or BE-86... a little faster than PP or TB. BE-86... it is supposed to be PowerPistol with a flash suppressant.

 

[TransAmConvert]

Interesting, I'll look into BE86. None of my books have data for it so I hadn't even considered it.

I actually did load some 2400 for this purpose and while I did have no problem getting the velocity the flash, recoil and report were all much higher than power pistol and so I ruled out this powder for my purpose here.

 

[Charlie98]

Speer has data for that bullet that should include BE-86 online.

EDIT: Make me a liar... no, they don't. Actually, their data is quite limited for the GDHP bullet...

 

[joneb]

Accurate #7 would be worth trying with the 135gr GD in .357 magnum.

 

[TransAmConvert]

#7 was my first thought based on burn rate but I've never used it, and I'm reading people find it to be flashy as well which would defeat the purpose. What's your experience with it?

So there's no data from speer on BE-86, and the alliant data frankly stinks. Another source?

 

[AJC1]

PP and be86 are slower than unique and in a stubby i would not be going slower than unique. Some powders have flash suppressants that may help your case. Ramshot Silhouette is also slower that what i would consider optimum for that short of barrel but may be worth a try.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I tried quite a few powders listed below and ended up settling with Unique for my short barreled Taurus 617.

 

[joneb]

#7 was my first thought based on burn rate but I've never used it, and I'm reading people find it to be flashy as well which would defeat the purpose. What's your experience with it?

I did not find it flashy, I test loads over a chrono in daylight so the flash thing is not noticable.

 

[TransAmConvert]

Well I finally got around to this one, took some time to find BE-86.

8.0gr in .357 gave me 1155fps average from the 3" speed six, which is about exactly the performance I was after. The groups were very good, and it seemed like less blast than the power pistol loads though it was bright daylight so I couldn't tell totally. Looks like a good load. Will test alongside power pistol to pick a favorite some evening.

I also had fairly good results from 5.6gr in .38spl. 917fps, which is comparable to the 6.3gr power pistol loads I had been using in .38. Will have to make some more and try them in my 442 to see how they feel.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Can anyone recommend an alternative powder (and a starting load) to try which will get 1150-1200 fps in 357 while minimizing flash, report and recoil in these short barrels? I know I don't ask for much. If I can get my hands on it I'll test it and report.

---
I bought two boxes of those bullets when Midway had them on sale for a single-action I had worked over a little for carry around the cattle fields. I started with the minimum listed by Speer and ended up loading it with the max, 7.8 grains of Unique. I only tried 2400 and Unique from the loads recommended on Speer's site. It shoots clean but it is not mild. Not extreme, but out of a three-and-a-half-inch Great Western II P-type "Peacemaker" revolver, it does bark a bit. I haven't shot it at dark or dusk so I'm not sure about flash. I didn't chronograph it, either. Sorry.

 

[Palladan44]

BE-86. Anything that has flash suppressant in it AND of course if its published for your load.
Short barreled Magnums with light to medium weight bullets I very much enjoy the medium to medium/fast pistol powders. I DO NOT like WW296, AA#9, Blue Dot, 2400, or Lil Gun for this application.....
BOOOOOOOM!!!!!

 

[lordpaxman]

Good deal on the BE-86. My pound sits unopened still and I do intend to work up some loads with it. If you are looking for alternatives I really like VV 3N37, a bit pricey but we’re worth it. I will probably add N350 to the order someday to see how that works as well. Good luck.