135 grain .40 Federal brand any good?

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Guys, point-of-impact is NOT due to the bullet dropping quicker!!! (Well, at least not at typical handgun defensive distance, anyway.)

All else being equal, the bullet that leaves the barrel sooner, has a LOWER point of impact, because the muzzle has not yet risen as far. Lighter bullets generally leave the barrel sooner, for several internal ballistic reasons. Simple as that.

180-grain Gold Dots shoot to point of aim in my SIG P229 pistols. Everything lighter shoots lower. Much as I like the apparent power of some of the hotter 155/165-grain loads, I have to allow for their lower P.O.I.

The same dynamic is at work in .357 Magnum. I like hot 125-grain loads in my adjustable-sighted GP100s, but tend to use heavier-bullet loads in my fixed-sight revolvers. Only the adjustable-sight guns can be adjusted to the P.O.I. of the lighter bullets.
 
But if you practice with what you shoot..in my case this 135 grn stuff,has anybody ever hear of adjusting,you know giving it a little English.If at POA it's at 11 oclock high you hold it a little low at 4...or am i just too old for this stuff..lol
No offense to anyone meant as i shot with a lot of Feds and most have told me to practice at 7 and 15 yards...7 yards..21 feet that's bigger than across most rooms..i can put them where they are needed..Im sure if i backed up to 25 yards my way would have issues but unless every cop i know is lying to me,most citizen involved shootings occur under 10ft..not yards..

once again just my .02 cents
 
The weight of the bullet has NO effect on how fast it drops. As Galileo taught us hundreds of years ago, weight has no effect on drop velocity. The ONLY factors affecting how much a bullet drops is aero and the time it takes for a bullet to go from the muzzle to the target. A lighter bullet has less momentum so it slows down faster. This loss of velocity causes it to drop more at longer ranges.
 
I just picked up a box at Wally World since the price whas cheap and i could fill my spare ccw mag with HP's instead of FMJ after i shot a mag of the Hornady Tap 180gr i carry in the gun.
While i always prefer a higher weight bullet, You are gaining almost 200+ fps over 180gr ammo. Penetration will be down in a torso with 135gr, But you also gain some hydrostatic shock effect if you believe in that.
While its not my first choice in carry ammo, It will do the job just fine especially since its a proven expansion round which imo is more important than its weight.
 
I'm not sure I buy into the argument that a 130gr 38 special load at around 200 ft/lbs of energy is somehow a better choice or a better "performer" than a 135gr 40 S&W with around 500 ft/lbs. The small amount of difference in sectional density doesn't somehow drive that bullet deeper if it doesn't have the velocity or energy to do the work. While other factors being equal the higher SD will generally have more penetration that doesn't always work that way when you are comparing rounds of widely divergent velocities.
 
On the Wally Work federal 135 grn. stuff One point id like to clear up is that these are using a prem. bullet the HST and out of my XD they are just a tick over 1200 fps..no not super ninja rounds but well into the range that HP rounds work.
 
Full Metal Jacket, regarding your "confused" smiley, ( :confused: ) somebody did indeed post something that indicated a lack of understanding of what I said in my first reply. I did not want to pick on anyone, therefore the plural, collective "guys" terminology in my second post. :) The post in question is still there as I type this.

Plus, in previous threads in several forums about the lower POI of lighter-bullet loads at close range, others have stated things indicated belief that such bullets are actually dropping faster. It is a very common myth.

The reason I emphasized close range is because I was specifically not addressing that which occurs at longer range, where such things as ballistic coefficient, wind, etc., come into play.
 
That is a strange myth as all bullets drop at exactly the same speed. The only difference is how far it travels before it hits the ground.
 
That is a strange myth as all bullets drop at exactly the same speed.

*The only difference is how far it travels before it hits the ground.
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...

And here I always thought *it was how far it travels before the BG hits the ground.. ;)


Ls
 
Considering that the 125g .357 Magnum round was (and still is) considered to be one of the best self defense rounds ever,
and considering that the 125g .357Sig round is getting very good results from all accounts that I have heard and read about,
I simple don't buy the notion that 135g in .40S&W is too light-weight to be effective for self defense.
 
Considering that the 125g .357 Magnum round was (and still is) considered to be one of the best self defense rounds ever... I simple don't buy the notion that 135g in .40S&W is too light-weight to be effective for self defense.
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the .357 Magnum 125gr bullet has a sectional density of .140, virtually the same as the sectional density of .40 S&W 155gr (.138) and the identical to .45 ACP 200gr (.140).

By comparison .40 S&W 135gr has a sectional density of .121, which is less than .357 Magnum 110gr (.123) and 9mm 115gr (.130).

In predicting a bullet's potential for effectiveness against a human target, sectional density is of greater relevance than weight. Bullets of similar sectional density, when propelled at similar velocities and achieving similar percentages of expansion/fragmentation, such as .40 S&W 135gr and .357 Magnum 110gr, are going to produce similar terminal performance/wound trauma.

For mor information, see - Sectional Density: Rule-of-thumb Guide for Estimating Terminal Performance

Cheers!
 
Hornady has some good information in their HITS Calculator in comparing their particular offerings. In the chart format, each caliber and it's corresponding bullet weights are scored (in this case to determine which size game animals are appropriate) and velocities are charted along with bullet drop.

Keep in mind too that bullet material makes a big difference when penetration and expansion are concerns. Each manufacturer chooses components for any number of reasons be it price, weight retention, expandability, etc. Checking their web site for the particulars can save alot of this is better than that

By decree of design there are "superior" rounds to the 135gr in .40 but again it depends on your purpose. Then you can decide whether or not you belong with the expansionists, penetration rules or size matters crowd.

PS If you spent the money on a .40 for self-defense, cost for ammo should never be a factor. Buy what you should have rather than what leaves you with Twinkie money left over. (Hey, we're at Walmart right?)
 
Sectional density is likely a more important factor in rifle rounds than in handgun rounds. And tends to be of more importance in the selection of a hunting round than a self defense round. For the latter bullet construction and type, caliber, weight etc. are likely greater factors than sectional density.

The 135 gr. loads for the .40 S&W have been around for quite a number of years, well over a decade. They are part of what makes the 40 an interesting and versatile round. Cor-Bon has produced one that they claim delivers 1325 fps from a 4" barrel and 526 ft.lbs of energy at the muzzle.

Modern JHP bullets are built to produce similar penetration and expansion in 10% ballistic gelatin whether a 9mm or a 45, etc. The 135 gr. 40 S&W load should do quite well. Likely better than a 130 gr. 38 Spl.

P.S. a small point...there has never been any solid info. that the 125 gr. JHP from a .357 is or was the #1 "manstopper" of all time, etc. A good round yes but the rep of the .357 was made with a 158 gr. pill some years before the 125 gr. JHP was developed.

tipoc
 
CDW4ME said:
I saw the Federal 135 gr. ammo in Wal-Mart too, I was leery of the weight and unsure if if was a standard "full power" load or a weakened load.
I ended up getting a couple boxes of the Winchester 180 JHP. Although it might not be a "premium" bullet, it is a standard 40 bullet weight offering the traditional 40 ballistics.
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The Winchester 180 JHP white box didn't work so well in my Kahr PM40, something like at least one malfunction in a 5 round magazine.
Maybe I should have gotten the 135 Federal after all.
 
Sectional density is likely a more important factor in rifle rounds than in handgun rounds. And tends to be of more importance in the selection of a hunting round than a self defense round. For the latter bullet construction and type, caliber, weight etc. are likely greater factors than sectional density.

Modern JHP bullets are built to produce similar penetration and expansion in 10% ballistic gelatin whether a 9mm or a 45, etc. The 135 gr. 40 S&W load should do quite well.
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Except for the solid copper Barnes XPB bullets, the lead core handgun bullets listed in the following link possess an unfired sectional density of .138 or greater and reliably achieve adequate penetration. Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads

.40 S&W 135gr is not listed because it does not achieve similar penetration, due to low sectional density.
 
It's a light bullet for that caliber, but will get the job done, not considering any substantial intermediate barriers. Maybe it would make a good HD load for that reason.
 
Shawn, your link provided a great chart, thank you. The op continued however below that chart to say the following: 'The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST...'

He concluded with: 'Basically all the standard service calibers work when using good quality ammunition.'

Missing from that chart are a number of premium choices such as Double Tap and Hornady. I feel that while helpful as a reference it is far from complete.
 
Go ahead with the 135

My agency recently went from the 155 jhp to the 135 grain. The main reason seems to be recoil. The H&K P2000 we carry are much lighter than the BERETTA 96 D models we used to use.
Now that we are transitioning the last of our 9m.m. shooters to the .40 S&W, recoil has become an issue for some.

The 155 grain jhp was probably the most effective .40 S&W ammo. It is what I keep in my home gun and my winter carry gun. The 165 was nearly interchangable and I use WINCHESTER'S 165 grain fmj for practice.

I would avoid the 180 ammo. It offers deeper penetration and little else. It has not come close to establishing a street proven record like the 155 grain jhp has. My agency switched from the .357 magnum directly to the .40 S&W and did not notice any change in stopping power.

Jim
 
.40 S&W 135gr is not listed because it does not achieve similar penetration, due to low sectional density.
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I'm no expert in the 135 gr. 40 S&W but I do believe that bullet construction will play a greater role in whether the bullet will penetrate to depth and expand as planned (to the extent that any bullets do this) than will sectional density. Sectional density is one factor to be considered I believe, in the "balance" of a round. In this regard the 135 gr. is less balanced than the 155-165 gr. or so rounds for the 40 S&W.

But ammo manufacturers have worked quite hard at manufacturing rounds that fall within the FBI parameters for defensive ammo. I believe this has been the case with the 135 gr. loads. If so it will penetrate to the desired depths. It has the energy and weight to do so with the proper bullet (lighter bullets as fast or faster do in the 38/9mm range without breaking up as they used to a decade or so back).

I think that sectional density tables can be useful and are a part of the picture. As are energy figures and momentum. But they leave out bullet construction which has proven to be a critical factor in penetration and expansion.

Above Golden has made some good points.

tipoc
 
I would avoid the 180 ammo. It offers deeper penetration and little else. It has not come close to establishing a street proven record like the 155 grain jhp has.
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You need to educate yourself. Have your agency request a ballistics report from the FBI. They send them out to any department that requests them. 180gr. is the only .40 load that consistently passes the FBI tests.
 
Having a street proven record and the FBI ballistics report are two different things. The lighter (mid light) .40 loads do have better reports of stopping power.

The only reason to have the 180 grain load is better penetration, which may or may not be necessary according to individual needs. It does not expand as well as the lighter loads and it has considerably less FPE, if you believe in that sort of thing.
 
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