15,000 rds in an AR without cleaning.

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Why does every AR or AK thread always turn in to an argument...

Or every DI vs Piston thread...

Although, Fireman 9731 has a point: AR owners are highly touchy and argumentative.
But Piston owners are also highly argumentative and taunting.

Congrats on the AR doing well, congrats on the piston doing well. Get over the other "team" and its decision.
I agree Carter... there's WAY too much of this "he kicked up sand in my sand box, I'm gonna go kick sand in his sand box" attitude around here. The 1911 snobs don't like Kimbers, the AK guys don't like ARs, the hunting shotgun purists don't like anything that isn't a wood stock with only a bead, the Glock guys don't like the 1911s... and on and on. So... everyone tip-toes into the other guy's thread and decides to take a leak on what he doesn't like... and it goes on and on. It's almost like a crew of "Gunkid Wannabes" around here. If someone likes their AR... they're a "Mall Ninja"... then the AR fans have to go criticize the AKs since they're "cheap".

Bottom line... we're all fond of the shooting sports... but, instead of banding together to promote ALL of the guns we've come to enjoy... we're all too busy peein' on each other and driving wedges between ourselves. It gets to be pretty pathetic some days.
 
I agree Carter... there's WAY too much of this "he kicked up sand in my sand box, I'm gonna go kick sand in his sand box" attitude around here. The 1911 snobs don't like Kimbers, the AK guys don't like ARs, the hunting shotgun purists don't like anything that isn't a wood stock with only a bead, the Glock guys don't like the 1911s... and on and on. So... everyone tip-toes into the other guy's thread and decides to take a leak on what he doesn't like... and it goes on and on. It's almost like a crew of "Gunkid Wannabes" around here. If someone likes their AR... they're a "Mall Ninja"... then the AR fans have to go criticize the AKs since they're "cheap".

Bottom line... we're all fond of the shooting sports... but, instead of banding together to promote ALL of the guns we've come to enjoy... we're all too busy peein' on each other and driving wedges between ourselves. It gets to be pretty pathetic some days.

Very true. I love all guns. Glocks, 1911s, revolvers, aks, sks's, AR's (although I used to be a hater), etc etc etc.

Every weapon has its pros and cons. Until someone either creates a lasergun or rewrites physics there will never be a perfect gun. But even then, someone would complain.

I am rather impressed with the OP's story of the AR though. I was honestly shocked.

Now come now children, lets play nice and shoot up some evil paper targets.
 
Fireman9731, I never had anything against firemen until I had to start investigating them (maybe the public should start doing more public records requests like they do with police) go put out fires and leave the shooting and comments about it to those of us that do it for a living.

There you go, getting all defensive again proving my point... the only thing better than an AR vs. AK thread would be a police vs. firemen thread :banghead:

leave the shooting and comments about it to those of us that do it for a living.

So I guess only the police should have guns and be able to talk about them?
 
leave the shooting and comments about it to those of us that do it for a living.

Really? A policeman's job isn't shooting. To say so is damning to every officer and department in the nation.


Why don't you guys stop trying to argue apples over oranges, agree to disagree, and quit ruining threads.
 
I think part of the reason why there is so much antagonism between
the AR camp versus the AK guys, is that there may be a social class difference between the two groups.

The AK is an everyman's(proletariat) gun its relatively cheap, effective it works
everytime you want it to and needs little maintenence. My guess is most guys who love the AK value reliability above all other charecteristics for their semi auto rifle and don't want to spend thousands to get the reliability they want and/or don't wan't to tinker with the gun to get it.

My impression is most AR owners value accuracy above other charecteristics of their rifle and are harcore about shooting small groups while AK owners are more of the casual plinker/blazer type. AR owners also tend to like to emulate the military as much as possible hence their proclivity to adding tons of gadgets and gizmos to their rifles and be tacticool they also tend to think they are more patriotic since they use "America's rifle". I am guessing they are also more likely to be upper middle class than their AK comrades since they seem to have plenty of cash to spend on their guns and hobbies. All probelms relating to the AR are not design related but "user error" that is the primary dogma of the AR fanatics. For some reason the magazine is not considered part of the gun design:cool:. Politically AR guys seem to be more of the neocon Republican type while AK guys tend more often to be part of the Tea Party.
 
A historical perspective to add at Parris Island (1964) our drill instructors alluded to a training series earlier that had used Stoner rifles. I believe the Stoner reference was to the Stoner 63 series rifle. Vietnam 1967 1st Marines conducted a limited field test of the Stoner 63 series rifle. The Marine Corps interest was in the rifle and light machinegun versions.

As I understand it The Army and Pentagon establishment more or less forced the Marine Corps to accept the M16 and not to continue the evaluation of the Stoner 63 weapons system.

Just an observation from a guy running on nineteen-forty some thing parts which are getting harder to find.:what::uhoh:;)
 
BACK TO OP...

The test was ran with .223? Let's see a Beowolf get some action.
 
Politically AR guys seem to be more of the neocon Republican type while AK guys tend more often to be part of the Tea Party.

I think this comment is rediculous. Have you been to a tea party protest? Have you seen that we don't discriminate.

Do you know the difference between a neocon or a member in the tea party (which is crazy because it was never supposed to be a national party movement...but I digress)? IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NEOCON AND THE TEA PARTY?

If you need any help answering just let me know. I'm both, but only own one gun you listed, guess which???:eek:
 
Every AR vs. AK (or anything else) thread always turns into the uppity AR owners going on and on about how their gun is just a million times better than any other gun in the world.

Seriously don't get so jealous and defensive because somebody else's $400 AK, $200 Hi-Point, or $75 Mosin shoots every time they pull the trigger, hits where they are aiming, with surplus mags and ammo, and didn't cost 4 truck payments.

Just because you own an AR doesn't make you any better than anybody else in the world, so please stop acting like it.
I very much like AK's...

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...and mine is a stamped Romanian, to boot. It's just that the "AR's are unreliable" meme is just as misinformed as the "AK's pattern like a shotgun" meme. Both AK's and AR's are reliable, and both AK's and AR's are plenty accurate for most purposes. One platform or the other may have an edge in certain narrowly defined situations (want to bury in gooey mud for 6 months and then empty a magazine without cleaning, advantage ---> AK; want to hit an 8" target at 400 yards, advantage ---> AR), but both are good, reliable rifles.

What is tiresome is when advocates of one platform level accusations at the other that are patently untrue. The idea that the AR system is inherently unreliable is no less false than the idea that the AK is useless at 200 yards.

think part of the reason why there is so much antagonism between
the AR camp versus the AK guys, is that there may be a social class difference between the two groups.

The AK is an everyman's(proletariat) gun its relatively cheap, effective it works
everytime you want it to and needs little maintenence. My guess is most guys who love the AK value reliability above all other charecteristics for their semi auto rifle and don't want to spend thousands to get the reliability they want and/or don't wan't to tinker with the gun to get it.

My impression is most AR owners value accuracy above other charecteristics of their rifle and are harcore about shooting small groups while AK owners are more of the casual plinker/blazer type. AR owners also tend to like to emulate the military as much as possible hence their proclivity to adding tons of gadgets and gizmos to their rifles and be tacticool they also tend to think they are more patriotic since they use "America's rifle". I am guessing they are also more likely to be upper middle class than their AK comrades since they seem to have plenty of cash to spend on their guns and hobbies.

...

Politically AR guys seem to be more of the neocon Republican type while AK guys tend more often to be part of the Tea Party.
I disagree. There isn't a class difference between Ford and GM aficionados, but you see the same type of arguments. And I know AK and AR owners on both sides of the political spectrum, and up and down the economic ladder, from professions ranging to hog farmer and boat builder to IT specialist. I myself am a centrist independent, not a conservative, and am a fan of both designs.

it works everytime you want it to and needs little maintenence
True of both the AK and AR, assuming both are properly assembled.

All probelms relating to the AR are not design related but "user error" that is the primary dogma of the AR fanatics. For some reason the magazine is not considered part of the gun design.
Try running an AK with a 20-year-old el cheapo USA brand magazine with spread-out feed lips and worn out springs, and see how it runs. Or try running an AK with a gas piston NOT pinned to the bolt carrier like it's supposed to be, or the shepherd's hook retainer missing, for thousands of rounds.

Using worn-out magazines will cause an AR to fail, just as it will an AK. Failing to assemble the rifle properly will cause an AR to fail, just as it will an AK. But if either rifle is assembled correctly with good parts and used with good magazines, they will both run fine.
 
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