brookstexas
member
I carry a large Kershaw folder that retails for under $50, can get a razors edge and hols edge fairly well. Would I really be amazed by a Benchmade or Emerson costing 2-3 times as much?
Thanks,
BT
Thanks,
BT
$150 knife really better than $50 one?
- Thread starter brookstexas
- Start date
- Status
It depends. Much like loading ammunition to maximum velocity, there definitely are diminishing returns. Whether some less obvious factors are important enough to you to warrant the extra expenditure can only be answered by you.
John
John
It really depends on what your looking for in a knife. If all you want is something that will do light cutting work for you then you really wont care much for the difference.
If you are a stickler for fit and finish or asthetics then you would be happy with the extra expense.
Also, SOME high end knives will hold together and STAY sharper for longer than SOME cheaper knives. But if your smart about it there really isnt anything that a $150 knife can do that a QUALITY $50 knife cant.
Kershaw makes nice knives and really taking a step up has a lot more to do with desire than it does with need.
With that said i have no problem spending a LARGE chunk of my income on really 'nice' knives. My 10 year old Buck Hunter can really accomplish virtually any task i have put a knife to. but, it just lacks that 'something' that makes knives worth what they charge (to me).
If you are a stickler for fit and finish or asthetics then you would be happy with the extra expense.
Also, SOME high end knives will hold together and STAY sharper for longer than SOME cheaper knives. But if your smart about it there really isnt anything that a $150 knife can do that a QUALITY $50 knife cant.
Kershaw makes nice knives and really taking a step up has a lot more to do with desire than it does with need.
With that said i have no problem spending a LARGE chunk of my income on really 'nice' knives. My 10 year old Buck Hunter can really accomplish virtually any task i have put a knife to. but, it just lacks that 'something' that makes knives worth what they charge (to me).
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
I have several real ''budget'' knives ... some even Chinese (boy, there are plenty of those!). I have a Buckmasters giveaway which is a Camillus .. excellent blade.
I did tho go a tad overboard last year . and bought a Buck Mayo from a member here. Now this is a near $300 knife!! Titanium handle ... incredible blade. I would most likely have not even considered buying new. I did tho ''succumb'' to buying it for $200 ... which was very profligate of me but . I love this knife .. beautifully crafted, ''scary sharp'' ... and it is my 24/7 companion.
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Seerms a temp server prob - pic not coming up right away.
I did tho go a tad overboard last year . and bought a Buck Mayo from a member here. Now this is a near $300 knife!! Titanium handle ... incredible blade. I would most likely have not even considered buying new. I did tho ''succumb'' to buying it for $200 ... which was very profligate of me but . I love this knife .. beautifully crafted, ''scary sharp'' ... and it is my 24/7 companion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seerms a temp server prob - pic not coming up right away.
Kingcreek
Member
MANY $150 knives really are better than many $50 knives. If you can't see the difference, then you are not ready for a $150 knife. IMO, there are alot of good knives out there for around $100 or less.
The more you use a good knife or knives, the more you appreciate their different qualities. I own and use several knives in the $200-$500 bracket and I have no reservations about using them for thier intended tasks. I wear a custom fixed blade on my hip when I hunt in the wilderness and I wouldn't trade it for a good rifle or even a good mountain horse.
The more you use a good knife or knives, the more you appreciate their different qualities. I own and use several knives in the $200-$500 bracket and I have no reservations about using them for thier intended tasks. I wear a custom fixed blade on my hip when I hunt in the wilderness and I wouldn't trade it for a good rifle or even a good mountain horse.
My perception is that there are probably three "break-points" for knife prices. The first is around $20 to $25, which should give you an adequate and functional knife for most purposes. The second break-point is around $45 to $55, which will give you better steel, a better handle, a better sheath, and an edge that will last noticeably longer. The third break-point is around $75 to $80, where you start getting into the best or near-best steel and heat treatments.
There is a fourth break-point, which is the Sebenzas (or Randalls, or any number of custom pieces), that probably run $250 or more, maybe much more. I don't own one, so I won't comment.
There is a fourth break-point, which is the Sebenzas (or Randalls, or any number of custom pieces), that probably run $250 or more, maybe much more. I don't own one, so I won't comment.
Headless Thompson Gunner
Member
There is a difference between a good knife ($50) and a truly great knife($150+). That difference is mostly in fit and finish, though, and not so much in function. There usually is a slight improvement in blade quality among the more expensive knifes, but you may not notice it in average use.
The real advantages of an expensive knife over an adequate knife are in the quality of the manufacturing and materials used. Materials like titanium or polished micarta are tactile, sensual details that some people prefer in their knives. Such won't make the knife any more useful, but they may make it more desirable. Similarly, the finish and assembly quality make a difference to certain people. Precisely fitting the scales to the liners and spacers won't make a folding knife cut any better, for instance, but some people appreciate these little details.
It's sorta like the difference in gun finishes. Parkerizing is good enough to keep the rust away, yet some people prefer the look of a highly polished, deeply blued gun even if it is much more costly.
Kershaw makes a fine knife. If you like yours then be happy with it, and don't feel obligated to drop hundreds of dollars on a new "better" knife. But if you get the chance, thoroughly examine one of those expensive knives, and look for the subtle differences. They are there, if you look closely.
The real advantages of an expensive knife over an adequate knife are in the quality of the manufacturing and materials used. Materials like titanium or polished micarta are tactile, sensual details that some people prefer in their knives. Such won't make the knife any more useful, but they may make it more desirable. Similarly, the finish and assembly quality make a difference to certain people. Precisely fitting the scales to the liners and spacers won't make a folding knife cut any better, for instance, but some people appreciate these little details.
It's sorta like the difference in gun finishes. Parkerizing is good enough to keep the rust away, yet some people prefer the look of a highly polished, deeply blued gun even if it is much more costly.
Kershaw makes a fine knife. If you like yours then be happy with it, and don't feel obligated to drop hundreds of dollars on a new "better" knife. But if you get the chance, thoroughly examine one of those expensive knives, and look for the subtle differences. They are there, if you look closely.
The Tourist
member
I used to be a real knife snob, myself. Then I bought an Edge-Pro, and knives that were mediocre before became quite useful.
A few months ago I had a CRKT M-1. True, the steel was AUS-6A, but it was quite sharp, well made, had the LAWKS system and opened very smoothly. For a 48 dollar knife, it appeared to me to be as well made and functional as some of my 300 dollar Microtechs.
If you take the passion out of this subject, like anything else, things are worth what you are willing to pay for them.
I carry a Strider SnG, and truth be told, it's a tad rough. While I paid 400 dollars for it, its usefulness to me is worth at least twice that.
I also bought a custom Buck 110 from their web page. It has perfect grind lines, beautiful fit and a BG-42 blade. I paid 120 dollars for it, an I feel that's a bargain.
Now, my friends at my church think any knife over 20 bucks is over-priced.
A few months ago I had a CRKT M-1. True, the steel was AUS-6A, but it was quite sharp, well made, had the LAWKS system and opened very smoothly. For a 48 dollar knife, it appeared to me to be as well made and functional as some of my 300 dollar Microtechs.
If you take the passion out of this subject, like anything else, things are worth what you are willing to pay for them.
I carry a Strider SnG, and truth be told, it's a tad rough. While I paid 400 dollars for it, its usefulness to me is worth at least twice that.
I also bought a custom Buck 110 from their web page. It has perfect grind lines, beautiful fit and a BG-42 blade. I paid 120 dollars for it, an I feel that's a bargain.
Now, my friends at my church think any knife over 20 bucks is over-priced.
Sure, you'll probably get what you pay for, to a degree, but will you really use that pearl-handled sissy pistol, or put it under glass someplace safe back home? Be honest.
OK, your knife guru said "nothing short of this steel, that lock is good enough for my students." Right. Most probably mean it, too. God Bless 'em, their hearts are in the right place, but I don't think that it's the same real world that the rest of us live in.
I'm awful sorry about stepping on any tootsies, but more folks carry cheap-o knockoffs that they bought at a gas station, if anything. Go tell them they need to spend the rent to open an occasional envelope. For that matter, 10 bucks more will getcha a good Swiss Army Knife, which may not be able to punch thru car doors, but will still cut a seatbelt if you need to, ya know?
Spend the remaining $130 on groceries or more training.
If you want a more expert opinion, go find "A Book of 5 Rings". There's a great line from this wise old Samurai dude, who literally lived and died by the sword, about not having any favourite blade. He said that it was better to be skilled enough to use whatcha got at the moment.
Bottom line: Only you know your situation. If 50 bucks is enough, good enough.
OK, your knife guru said "nothing short of this steel, that lock is good enough for my students." Right. Most probably mean it, too. God Bless 'em, their hearts are in the right place, but I don't think that it's the same real world that the rest of us live in.
I'm awful sorry about stepping on any tootsies, but more folks carry cheap-o knockoffs that they bought at a gas station, if anything. Go tell them they need to spend the rent to open an occasional envelope. For that matter, 10 bucks more will getcha a good Swiss Army Knife, which may not be able to punch thru car doors, but will still cut a seatbelt if you need to, ya know?
Spend the remaining $130 on groceries or more training.
If you want a more expert opinion, go find "A Book of 5 Rings". There's a great line from this wise old Samurai dude, who literally lived and died by the sword, about not having any favourite blade. He said that it was better to be skilled enough to use whatcha got at the moment.
Bottom line: Only you know your situation. If 50 bucks is enough, good enough.
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JohnBT
Member
"Would I really be amazed...?"
I wasn't for years. Then one day I picked up a $300 knife that fit my hand and I was amazed. Now I own 2 of them and a $150 sheath knife. They really are good tools and I don't miss the money.
John
I wasn't for years. Then one day I picked up a $300 knife that fit my hand and I was amazed. Now I own 2 of them and a $150 sheath knife. They really are good tools and I don't miss the money.
John
SapperLeader
Member
I carry knives at the 30-50 range and the 150 range. My 50 knives do everything I need as for cutting purpouses. My 150 dollar knives give me a greater pride of ownership, look nicer, open and close smoother, require less sharpening, can get sharper and are just all around fun to use and own. You can get some really great knives at 50 dollars. Stepping up to 100 gets you a awesome knive, and breaking the 150 dollar barrier is where truly incredible knives exist. Im drooling over a sebenza lately but will probalyl wait until after I graduate school to get one. If you apprecaite fine craftsmanship, the expensive knives are worth the money, if you just want a good tool, a 50 dollar knive will serve you well too.
pendentive
Member
nope....anything over $9.99 is money out the window...
The Tourist
member
Spark,
You bring up a good point, but what can you do about it from a practical standpoint?
I'm leaving the house today as I always do carrying the EDC in the next rotation. Today it's the SnG. I haven't the faintest idea what I wll cut.
My guess is that I'll cut the usual list of loose threads, envelopes and UPS boxes.
However, if I roll my truck, I might have to slice a seat belt. If I get invited to a bar-b-que, I might be cutting a T-bone steak.
In the majority of cases, a 4 dollar Opinel will fill the bill quite nicely. In fact, one time I carried a 4-inch Opinel as an EDC, with NO other knife with me, for an entire month to prove the point to my snobbish friends. (I cheated, the Opinel was sharpened on an Edge-Pro and touched up as necessary on a white-rouge strop. For the git-go, I had a sharper knife than they did!)
My Dad had one folder, a slip joint made from crappy steel, that he won at a county fair in the 1930s. He sharpened in on a soft Arkansas, and how he could match the factory bevel on the knife for 60 years was beyond me. The finish still shined.
After running the gamut from rookie, to excited knut and then to realist, I've come to the conclusion that we all own too many knives, most are purchased for their 'looks' and not their function and most of us would be better served by a good jackknife, not the latest tactical gizmo.
When I'm going to spend the day outdoors, I retire the Strider and revert back to the Buck 110, where I started. And the Buck cuts just like a 1,000 dollar custom.
You bring up a good point, but what can you do about it from a practical standpoint?
I'm leaving the house today as I always do carrying the EDC in the next rotation. Today it's the SnG. I haven't the faintest idea what I wll cut.
My guess is that I'll cut the usual list of loose threads, envelopes and UPS boxes.
However, if I roll my truck, I might have to slice a seat belt. If I get invited to a bar-b-que, I might be cutting a T-bone steak.
In the majority of cases, a 4 dollar Opinel will fill the bill quite nicely. In fact, one time I carried a 4-inch Opinel as an EDC, with NO other knife with me, for an entire month to prove the point to my snobbish friends. (I cheated, the Opinel was sharpened on an Edge-Pro and touched up as necessary on a white-rouge strop. For the git-go, I had a sharper knife than they did!)
My Dad had one folder, a slip joint made from crappy steel, that he won at a county fair in the 1930s. He sharpened in on a soft Arkansas, and how he could match the factory bevel on the knife for 60 years was beyond me. The finish still shined.
After running the gamut from rookie, to excited knut and then to realist, I've come to the conclusion that we all own too many knives, most are purchased for their 'looks' and not their function and most of us would be better served by a good jackknife, not the latest tactical gizmo.
When I'm going to spend the day outdoors, I retire the Strider and revert back to the Buck 110, where I started. And the Buck cuts just like a 1,000 dollar custom.
Exactly. Every day I see people wanting the latest GO FASTER JUMP HIGHER knife that they honestly, don't really need. When people ask me what I'd suggest in various price ranges, it always boils down to what they are looking to get out of a knife.
The Kershaw Blur series is great in the $50 range. So is the Camillus HEAT (due out shortly).
In the $100 range, the Microtech Mini SOCOM Elite is hard to beat.
In the $125 range, you have to look at the Benchmade 520.
And in the $150 and up, the Camillus Dominator or the BU-172 Buck Mayo TNT are both fantastic.
Past that, you really start looking at diminishing returns or niche products that have something "special" about them, whether it's the superior fit & finish of the Chris Reeve Sebenza, or the OMGTACTICALOMG of certain other makers.
The Kershaw Blur series is great in the $50 range. So is the Camillus HEAT (due out shortly).
In the $100 range, the Microtech Mini SOCOM Elite is hard to beat.
In the $125 range, you have to look at the Benchmade 520.
And in the $150 and up, the Camillus Dominator or the BU-172 Buck Mayo TNT are both fantastic.
Past that, you really start looking at diminishing returns or niche products that have something "special" about them, whether it's the superior fit & finish of the Chris Reeve Sebenza, or the OMGTACTICALOMG of certain other makers.
The Tourist
member
Spark,
I find that concept of yours refreshingly honest. Thank you. After all, you sell knives.
I will add one point. Sometimes you find a dedicated, and rational, custom maker who listens when you speak. I believe there were four of them, but two of them have passed away.
With trips to South Dakota, I needed a good 'camp knife.' Not some ridiculous short-sword Bowie, but a knife for cooking, camp work, cutting 'fuzzy sticks' and other mundane chores.
One day I received a package from my friend and custom knife maker, Eric Chang. Inside the box was the exact knife.
Beautiful ergo handle, tasteful hilt, functional rough finish on a blade of 1084, modest length and a durable edge of common-sense degree. It was a gift. He told me that if I could break it, he would repair it.
Most of my buddies refer to this knife as "my rough little Bowie." That is until they use it. Then they want to buy it.
And that is my point; what people claim they want is not necessarily a tool that actually enhances their lives. It is an easy trap to fall into, and I have a metric ton of 'drawer queens' to prove it.
I find that concept of yours refreshingly honest. Thank you. After all, you sell knives.
I will add one point. Sometimes you find a dedicated, and rational, custom maker who listens when you speak. I believe there were four of them, but two of them have passed away.
With trips to South Dakota, I needed a good 'camp knife.' Not some ridiculous short-sword Bowie, but a knife for cooking, camp work, cutting 'fuzzy sticks' and other mundane chores.
One day I received a package from my friend and custom knife maker, Eric Chang. Inside the box was the exact knife.
Beautiful ergo handle, tasteful hilt, functional rough finish on a blade of 1084, modest length and a durable edge of common-sense degree. It was a gift. He told me that if I could break it, he would repair it.
Most of my buddies refer to this knife as "my rough little Bowie." That is until they use it. Then they want to buy it.
And that is my point; what people claim they want is not necessarily a tool that actually enhances their lives. It is an easy trap to fall into, and I have a metric ton of 'drawer queens' to prove it.
Well, for starters my $400 knife can cut through your $50 knife.
That should amaze you a fair amount.
As with all things, its a matter of personal preference and it depends on your needs/wants.
If you are the type who scoffs at Rolls Royces, thinking that a Honda will get you where you need to go just as well and for a fraction of the cost, fine.
Many people like that just will not understand why some people buy Rolls Royces.
That should amaze you a fair amount.
As with all things, its a matter of personal preference and it depends on your needs/wants.
If you are the type who scoffs at Rolls Royces, thinking that a Honda will get you where you need to go just as well and for a fraction of the cost, fine.
Many people like that just will not understand why some people buy Rolls Royces.
And some people will buy Rolls Royces or Hummers, even if they will never leave the garage or the highway.
Again, it's what you want to get out of the knife. Some people like carrying boat anchors in their pockets. Others want a tiny gent's knife. Others just want something to cut with. It all depends on what they want to do.
I'd rather sell someone a knife that they can use and fits their needs, than a status symbol that doesn't meet their requirements or breaks their wallet. If you are happy with your knife, be happy - your money was well spent. Your mileage may vary.
Again, it's what you want to get out of the knife. Some people like carrying boat anchors in their pockets. Others want a tiny gent's knife. Others just want something to cut with. It all depends on what they want to do.
I'd rather sell someone a knife that they can use and fits their needs, than a status symbol that doesn't meet their requirements or breaks their wallet. If you are happy with your knife, be happy - your money was well spent. Your mileage may vary.
brownie0486
Member
The right tool for the right job, or maybe worst case scenario?
What is the purpose of your carrying a knife to begin with? Is it to cut boxes, string, the ocassional package delivered through UPS, clean your fingernails, etc? If that what you normally use your knife for and do not expect it to potentially serve as a life saving tool, then a 50.00 knife would certainly suffice.
If, on the other hand, you carry a folding knife as a tool with the idea of a potential emergency in my mind where you may need a tool that will stand up to some rough use or even abuse and get the job done, you may want to reconsider the 50.00 knife in lieu of something more substantial in materials and it's correspondingly substantial price.
I carry and choose an EDC folder for the worst case scenario I may find myself in. That may be self defense related or emergency related where I need a tool with me that can cut, pry a little, not break the point in doing so, and keep it's edge longer due to the better materials used in it's construction.
It's no different than carrying a firearm. If you can get by with a 50.00 knife, you can probably get by with a Jennings .25 or maybe a Raven .25
The 50.00 knife will cut materials, the Jennings will discharge a projectile. Both do what they are meant to do, but neither does them extremely well or has a reputation as being rugged enough to withstand "combat" as most understand it.
My EDC'd folders are for many things, not the least of which is to potentially save my Arse in a worst case scenario.
Lets ask the forum members this question----------
If you had a crystal ball and knew that the day would bring you adversity where you needed a tool to survive, would you prefer to take the Jennings .25 and $50.00 knife or would you choose to take a Glock/Sig/1911/HK/etc and that 3-500.00 folder that day.
Now lets assume for a minute that you don't know what the day will bring and what you may need in the way of equipment on your person that day [ like most of us ].
Do you trust that you WON'T need the better tools that day, any day for that matter? Do you trust fate not to deal you a bad hand that day as you only have the Jennings and that 50.00 folder on you?
I choose to carry the best equipment I can afford to buy in lieu of carrying something somewhat less than that. Now I understand this can and is very subjective as to what everyone may choose as the best for them.
On the other hand, I don't think we can say with any certainty that a 50.00 knife or that Jenningss is anyones "best equipment" at anytime.
I choose not to trust Murphy not to rear his ugly head and catch me with my pants down. What are the chances I'll be in a worst case scenario where I would need the better tools? I don't know, and there's the crux of the matter. It's because I DO NOT KNOW what is in store that day that I choose to carry the best equipment I can and not the prone to failure equipment which may be just fine for normal days in my life but will not withstand the abuse/hard use I may need to apply to the tool in a bad situation.
What were the chances the people in the towers on 9-11 were going to have a bad day. No one knows for sure when their time will come when their life may hang in the balance based on the equipment they have with them at the moment of truth.
It's why I carry an E2E Surfire EVERYDAY, without fail as well. I've only needed the light twice since it's been EDC'd and neither were an emergency situation where survival was in question. That doesn't mean it can't or won't happen that I need that light one day.
Carry what you think you'll need in a worst case scenario. If that happens to be a Jennings 25 or 50.00 folder, okay with me. Not my Arse thats on the line but yours.
Plan for the worst and hope for the best. Be a Boy Scout, heed their motto and you will have the better chance in a worst case scenario of your equipment getting you through a bad time where a lesser product would not have allowed the same results.
The life you save may be your own. I trust my equipment to get me through as it has been selected, not based on price point, but on reliability and toughness quotients.
OMMV-- we each make choices and we each may have to live or die with those very choices as well.
Brownie
'
What is the purpose of your carrying a knife to begin with? Is it to cut boxes, string, the ocassional package delivered through UPS, clean your fingernails, etc? If that what you normally use your knife for and do not expect it to potentially serve as a life saving tool, then a 50.00 knife would certainly suffice.
If, on the other hand, you carry a folding knife as a tool with the idea of a potential emergency in my mind where you may need a tool that will stand up to some rough use or even abuse and get the job done, you may want to reconsider the 50.00 knife in lieu of something more substantial in materials and it's correspondingly substantial price.
I carry and choose an EDC folder for the worst case scenario I may find myself in. That may be self defense related or emergency related where I need a tool with me that can cut, pry a little, not break the point in doing so, and keep it's edge longer due to the better materials used in it's construction.
It's no different than carrying a firearm. If you can get by with a 50.00 knife, you can probably get by with a Jennings .25 or maybe a Raven .25
The 50.00 knife will cut materials, the Jennings will discharge a projectile. Both do what they are meant to do, but neither does them extremely well or has a reputation as being rugged enough to withstand "combat" as most understand it.
My EDC'd folders are for many things, not the least of which is to potentially save my Arse in a worst case scenario.
Lets ask the forum members this question----------
If you had a crystal ball and knew that the day would bring you adversity where you needed a tool to survive, would you prefer to take the Jennings .25 and $50.00 knife or would you choose to take a Glock/Sig/1911/HK/etc and that 3-500.00 folder that day.
Now lets assume for a minute that you don't know what the day will bring and what you may need in the way of equipment on your person that day [ like most of us ].
Do you trust that you WON'T need the better tools that day, any day for that matter? Do you trust fate not to deal you a bad hand that day as you only have the Jennings and that 50.00 folder on you?
I choose to carry the best equipment I can afford to buy in lieu of carrying something somewhat less than that. Now I understand this can and is very subjective as to what everyone may choose as the best for them.
On the other hand, I don't think we can say with any certainty that a 50.00 knife or that Jenningss is anyones "best equipment" at anytime.
I choose not to trust Murphy not to rear his ugly head and catch me with my pants down. What are the chances I'll be in a worst case scenario where I would need the better tools? I don't know, and there's the crux of the matter. It's because I DO NOT KNOW what is in store that day that I choose to carry the best equipment I can and not the prone to failure equipment which may be just fine for normal days in my life but will not withstand the abuse/hard use I may need to apply to the tool in a bad situation.
What were the chances the people in the towers on 9-11 were going to have a bad day. No one knows for sure when their time will come when their life may hang in the balance based on the equipment they have with them at the moment of truth.
It's why I carry an E2E Surfire EVERYDAY, without fail as well. I've only needed the light twice since it's been EDC'd and neither were an emergency situation where survival was in question. That doesn't mean it can't or won't happen that I need that light one day.
Carry what you think you'll need in a worst case scenario. If that happens to be a Jennings 25 or 50.00 folder, okay with me. Not my Arse thats on the line but yours.
Plan for the worst and hope for the best. Be a Boy Scout, heed their motto and you will have the better chance in a worst case scenario of your equipment getting you through a bad time where a lesser product would not have allowed the same results.
The life you save may be your own. I trust my equipment to get me through as it has been selected, not based on price point, but on reliability and toughness quotients.
OMMV-- we each make choices and we each may have to live or die with those very choices as well.
Brownie
'
The Tourist
member
Brownie,
"Future gains are not based on past performance."
However, based on living for five decades, there is a very good possibility that the next thing I cut will be a UPS box. And there n lies the issue.
Just because something can happen, doesn't mean that it will. And the trouble with the knife industry is that, like Harley-Davidson, much of the mystique is 'the bad boy image.' We will never be Navy SEALs, but dad-gum, we MIGHT face the same dangers.
Bull feathers. None of us is ever going to get into a knife-on-knife fight. The closest we will get is sitting in the front row of 'The West Side Story.'
Why am I so certain? Well, I like 4-wheeling. I have moved 1,200 pounds of lead during a move, I can off-road in South Dakota and I live in a state with long winters. I drive an F-150. However, in an AVERAGE year, I never leave the road. Some winters I have NEVER engaged 4-wheel drive.
There is a very good case that could be made for me to buy a smaller 4-wheel or AWD, and simply RENT heavier stuff if needed. I say this because the car industry's own figures show that 95% of the 4-wheelers and SUVs sold never leave the pavement.
Same with bikes. I rode with an area club, a club which has never had more than 150 members in its entire 30 year history. Can you imagine all of the black leather clad dentists and insurance salesmen I meet at the bike shop?
I stand on my position. You are better off with a jackknife than a tactical gizmo knife.
"Future gains are not based on past performance."
However, based on living for five decades, there is a very good possibility that the next thing I cut will be a UPS box. And there n lies the issue.
Just because something can happen, doesn't mean that it will. And the trouble with the knife industry is that, like Harley-Davidson, much of the mystique is 'the bad boy image.' We will never be Navy SEALs, but dad-gum, we MIGHT face the same dangers.
Bull feathers. None of us is ever going to get into a knife-on-knife fight. The closest we will get is sitting in the front row of 'The West Side Story.'
Why am I so certain? Well, I like 4-wheeling. I have moved 1,200 pounds of lead during a move, I can off-road in South Dakota and I live in a state with long winters. I drive an F-150. However, in an AVERAGE year, I never leave the road. Some winters I have NEVER engaged 4-wheel drive.
There is a very good case that could be made for me to buy a smaller 4-wheel or AWD, and simply RENT heavier stuff if needed. I say this because the car industry's own figures show that 95% of the 4-wheelers and SUVs sold never leave the pavement.
Same with bikes. I rode with an area club, a club which has never had more than 150 members in its entire 30 year history. Can you imagine all of the black leather clad dentists and insurance salesmen I meet at the bike shop?
I stand on my position. You are better off with a jackknife than a tactical gizmo knife.
brownie0486
Member
Tourist:
I like to think I'll never need the knife to defend as well. That in no way prevents me from being that Boy Scout and planning for a worst case scenario.
Knowing the odds of a knife fight with knife on knife scenario are extremely low, why do I then spend all the money in transporting my butt to and from ancross the country to get defensive knife training? Why train at all with a knife? If you base your decisions on "odds", you never will need the training to begin with. I base my decisions on possibilities in life, not odds.
I tested a 50.00 CRKT on our site that after a few ggod stabbings into soft pine, the tip broke off and the leading end of the knife "bent" effectively making it useless exceot for the edge of the blade.
You stated: "None of us is ever going to get into a knife-on-knife fight"
I don't have the same crystal ball and so I can not say that myself with any certainty. I carry a gun when I think I may need one [ the odds are better than average based on what the assignement is that day ]. What I should be doing is carrying everyday [ which I used to do for 20+ years ] no matter what I was planning on for work those days ].
You play the odds, the odds of getting into a knife on knife defensive scenario are low at best, not an absolute as you stated, in my opinion. Because it's low doesn't mean I should not be prepared as my training has shown often enough.
I cut the odds in my favor when I carry "better" gear rather than the least common denominator folder which will make paper, twine and foil twinge in fear.
I buy the best tires for my cars for the same reason. Hell, a tire is a tire is a tire right? Riding MC's, you know that you want the best rubber under you that you can get, not the cheapest. There's a reason for that as there's a reason to always carry the best equipment you can afford at all times if you are prudent.
If I get up in the morning and tell myself I won't get into a gun fight today as I'm only going to the PO, thats the day someone will go postal and I'm discovered to be defenseless and I chose the wrong path that morning.
I carry the flashlight as I may need it, not because I will need it. I could buy a cheapo light that would fail at the most inopportune time [ when I really need it ] or I can spend the extra money and get the E2E surefire which will not do anymore than the cheapo light with the exception of perhaps lasting longer, being able to drop it and not have it shatter, etc, etc.
I buy boots that are 250.00 when I could buy boots that are 50.00. Both will keep you dry and warm, the more expensive pair will do a better job longer at that though, under adverse conditions.
We don't know what the day will bring or we would only carry what we were going to need that day. I plan for the owrst scenario, not hope and pray I have an easy day and my equipment will not be tested to the limits and beyond.
As you carry a Strider SnG when you could carry a 50.00 folder instead, I suspect your opinion is that the strider will be the better tool in a worst case scenario not necessarily defensive oriented ]. You have thought about the possibilities and decided the Strider price and dependability cuts the odds in your favor over the 50.00 knife in some way or we would not hear you carry one.
If one can not afford the better tool, thats one thing. If one has the means to carry something better, it's prudent to do so IMO. Cut the odds whenever you can, plan ahead for the worst case scenario.
Forethought goes a long way.
Odds have nothing to do with it in reality. If that were the case, I wouldn't be found at a casino losing money, as knowing the odds, I would not be playing their game to begin with.
The USMC and boy scouts had a lot to do with my training and mindset. Both have stood the test of time over the 50 odd years here on earth as well. There were times I needed that equipment to not fail, these very times were unexpected events and I was prepared with the best equipment I could buy [ at that time ].
Brownie
I like to think I'll never need the knife to defend as well. That in no way prevents me from being that Boy Scout and planning for a worst case scenario.
Knowing the odds of a knife fight with knife on knife scenario are extremely low, why do I then spend all the money in transporting my butt to and from ancross the country to get defensive knife training? Why train at all with a knife? If you base your decisions on "odds", you never will need the training to begin with. I base my decisions on possibilities in life, not odds.
I tested a 50.00 CRKT on our site that after a few ggod stabbings into soft pine, the tip broke off and the leading end of the knife "bent" effectively making it useless exceot for the edge of the blade.
You stated: "None of us is ever going to get into a knife-on-knife fight"
I don't have the same crystal ball and so I can not say that myself with any certainty. I carry a gun when I think I may need one [ the odds are better than average based on what the assignement is that day ]. What I should be doing is carrying everyday [ which I used to do for 20+ years ] no matter what I was planning on for work those days ].
You play the odds, the odds of getting into a knife on knife defensive scenario are low at best, not an absolute as you stated, in my opinion. Because it's low doesn't mean I should not be prepared as my training has shown often enough.
I cut the odds in my favor when I carry "better" gear rather than the least common denominator folder which will make paper, twine and foil twinge in fear.
I buy the best tires for my cars for the same reason. Hell, a tire is a tire is a tire right? Riding MC's, you know that you want the best rubber under you that you can get, not the cheapest. There's a reason for that as there's a reason to always carry the best equipment you can afford at all times if you are prudent.
If I get up in the morning and tell myself I won't get into a gun fight today as I'm only going to the PO, thats the day someone will go postal and I'm discovered to be defenseless and I chose the wrong path that morning.
I carry the flashlight as I may need it, not because I will need it. I could buy a cheapo light that would fail at the most inopportune time [ when I really need it ] or I can spend the extra money and get the E2E surefire which will not do anymore than the cheapo light with the exception of perhaps lasting longer, being able to drop it and not have it shatter, etc, etc.
I buy boots that are 250.00 when I could buy boots that are 50.00. Both will keep you dry and warm, the more expensive pair will do a better job longer at that though, under adverse conditions.
We don't know what the day will bring or we would only carry what we were going to need that day. I plan for the owrst scenario, not hope and pray I have an easy day and my equipment will not be tested to the limits and beyond.
As you carry a Strider SnG when you could carry a 50.00 folder instead, I suspect your opinion is that the strider will be the better tool in a worst case scenario not necessarily defensive oriented ]. You have thought about the possibilities and decided the Strider price and dependability cuts the odds in your favor over the 50.00 knife in some way or we would not hear you carry one.
If one can not afford the better tool, thats one thing. If one has the means to carry something better, it's prudent to do so IMO. Cut the odds whenever you can, plan ahead for the worst case scenario.
Forethought goes a long way.
Odds have nothing to do with it in reality. If that were the case, I wouldn't be found at a casino losing money, as knowing the odds, I would not be playing their game to begin with.
The USMC and boy scouts had a lot to do with my training and mindset. Both have stood the test of time over the 50 odd years here on earth as well. There were times I needed that equipment to not fail, these very times were unexpected events and I was prepared with the best equipment I could buy [ at that time ].
Brownie
Yeah, you could be in a blizzard tomorrow too, so you'd better wear a parka everyday in Florida.
There is a point of diminishing returns on everything. If view everything through the lens of "I might need that extra .00001% so I better spend $300 more", you are not the typical person. Like I said, there are people who will buy Roll's or Hummers who see them as a status symbol. Then there are those who actually need them. It's up to the buyer to determine which profile they fit.
I will say this though, you should always use the right tool for the job. Pistols make horrible hammers. Knives make crummy prybars / screwdrivers. It's up to you to determine what you need. Some people are determined to carry fixed blade because folding knives, well, fold. Some people want Swiss Army functionality. Others want a status symbol. It's your money.
There is a point of diminishing returns on everything. If view everything through the lens of "I might need that extra .00001% so I better spend $300 more", you are not the typical person. Like I said, there are people who will buy Roll's or Hummers who see them as a status symbol. Then there are those who actually need them. It's up to the buyer to determine which profile they fit.
I will say this though, you should always use the right tool for the job. Pistols make horrible hammers. Knives make crummy prybars / screwdrivers. It's up to you to determine what you need. Some people are determined to carry fixed blade because folding knives, well, fold. Some people want Swiss Army functionality. Others want a status symbol. It's your money.
brownie0486
Member
I don't carry a slipjoint folder like my grandad did, there are better folders on the market today.
A slipjoint folder would certainly do everything I want in a folder [ it has a pointy thing for stabbing and an sharp edge to slice things with ] , just not as well as the new genre of folders like framelocks, linerlocks, etc.
Upgrades and advances in materials and designs are just that, advances through technology, better heat treat and initial materials used which take the better heat treat and produce a better product [ mostly ].
None of the newer designs will do anything more than stab [ they have pointy tips ] and slash [ cut with the sharpened edge ] just like the slipjoint my grandad carried.
What they WILL do, however, is be able to hold that edge longer under harder cutting and stabbing chores than my granddads knife. It also is designed to give me some degree of protection from the blade collapsing onto my fingers if I slip with it during use over my grandads knife.
The tip is less likely to bend or break under abnormal use. The edge is less likely to chip ouit when it comes into contact with bone or another hard target than my grandads knife.
Are the knives I carry better than my grandads? You bet they are and that's why I don't carry a slipjoint like my grandad did. I'll take the advances in technology and put them to good use in my own ways. Ways that dear old grandad would never have imagined possible with his slipjoint. In fact, dear old gramps would be the first to buy the best folder he could, like me, thats why his slipjoints were not made in china or hong kong but here in the good old USA. Why? Because he wanted the best folder he could get his hands on in his heyday, just like me.
Imagine that, I have the same wants and needs as my grandpaw. To own the best I can afford. You can buy the least expensive product out there and then have to buy it over and over again, replacing them as they fail due to poor materials/heat treat or any other number of reasons. In the end you have spent the same amount of money, or more so, on the junk than if you had bit the bukllet and spent the money initially for the better product. It depends on your needs and how much you come to depend on your equipment.
If you buy the wrong equipment and then think you can depend on it when you really need it, you are only fooling yourself. If the paper, the foil and string won't know the difference, why should I buy a more expensive knife?
The simple answer, for me at least, is that one day I may need the folder to perform a function other than that which it is used for regularly [ string, foil and paper cutting ]. Those are the times when I'll want the better product.
This question could also be raised using different price points. I can buy an M-tek piece of crap for 5.00 over the 50.00 dollar knife. Why, if all I'm going to use it for is to cut twine and paper do I even need to spend 50.00? Thats sounds like an awful lot of money for sutting that sort of thing don't you think? The M-tek has a point thing at the front and an edge to slice things with. Do I need anything else really? Isn't there a diminishing return on money spent in spending 50.00 when a 5.00 knife will do the same thing?
It's all relative here folks. Some would never buy a Mercedes even if they could afford it. Others want the comfort and amenities the extra money spent will give them.
I own a Lincoln as I want the creature comforts. My wife drive a Jetta as she wants the better gas mileage and doesn't drive enough to worry about 2900 mile one way road trips [ to train in defensive knife like I do].
Do I need the Lincoln to drive 2900 miles? Naw, I don't think so. The Jetta would be just fine. Would I be as comfortable on the trip in the Jetta? Absolutely not.
Both are cars, have tires on the road, use gas just like the differences between a slipjoint folder and something more modern. They have the same features but one makes it easier to use more comfortably. The more expensive knife will have radiused corners that don't bite me [ as a rule ], will have better ergonomics [ as a rule ] whic hleads to less fatigue in use over an extended period of time.
If these attributes do not interest you, go buy the 5.00 china knockoff, it has the same features as the 50.00 knife. I have a hard time understanding those who profess a 50.00 knife will do everything a 500.00 knife will [ stan and slice materials ], yet would not buy or use a 5.00 knife over the 50.00 knife [ for obvious reasons ].
The analogy of a blizzard in Florida is not really germain to the issues here and a poor analogy at best. We don't all live in Florida, but I'm pretty confident all of us at one time or another will have an emergency where that 500.00 knife would perform admirably and the 50.00 knife will break in use, or fail and bite you itself. Now if we all lived in Florida, perhaps that comment might have some meaning to it, but alas, it doesn't as we that live north of the mason/dixon line could care less about a blizzard in Florida and consequently would not have to be prepared for it.
If you feel you'll never use your knife for anything but string and paper, save yourself 45.00 and buy the M-tek in lieu of the 50.00 CRKT [ or whatever ]. After you run through 8 M-teks, you could have purchased the 50.00 folder. Thats the same as buying a 50.00 knife, once, several times over the owners lifespan or buying one 500.00 folder that will outlast two or three generations after you are gone [ which means unless I lose the damned thing, I don't need to worry about having to buy another folder for the same purpose over an over again, ad nauseum.
I don't buy the best I can afford based on price point, I buy something that fits my needs, is made of materials that will last a lifetime of hard use if cared for properly, and fit my hand ergonomically. As well, the folder may be pressed into service to defend myself, even if that ocurring, is a low percentage money shot.
I don't buy things that are prone to fail easily. I buy a good wheelbarrow, not the cheapest. They both have wheels in the front [ like the point on a knife ]and they both have handles [ like the knives ], and they both have a place to put materials to be moved. One however is made with thinner, cheaper steel and will fall apart long before the more expensive better built will.
Any object, pick any object and the analogy can apply betwen whats acceptable and what is not based on ones potential personal needs where that tool is concerned.
I'm presently carrying a knife that cost me 103.00 dollars [ my cost ] and retails for about 160.00. The Tourist is carrying a 400.00 knife [ the SnG strider ].
Mine will not last as long or perform as well under severely adverse conditions as his. Mine is not a 50.00 knife, neither is his. If all he is going to cut is paper and foil, why spend the money when the M-tek will do the same thing for the materials he will be using it on?
In closing, there are degrees of acceptability. What I'm willing to accept as a bare minimum for my needs is not someone elses based on their own needs.
I'll take the best I can afford and like at the same time. If I'm convinced one will outlast another by a wide margin, I'll always take the better product [ Just like dear old grandad did ].
There is diminishing return after a certain point but that point is always changing based on whicj items are being discussed.
Brownie
A slipjoint folder would certainly do everything I want in a folder [ it has a pointy thing for stabbing and an sharp edge to slice things with ] , just not as well as the new genre of folders like framelocks, linerlocks, etc.
Upgrades and advances in materials and designs are just that, advances through technology, better heat treat and initial materials used which take the better heat treat and produce a better product [ mostly ].
None of the newer designs will do anything more than stab [ they have pointy tips ] and slash [ cut with the sharpened edge ] just like the slipjoint my grandad carried.
What they WILL do, however, is be able to hold that edge longer under harder cutting and stabbing chores than my granddads knife. It also is designed to give me some degree of protection from the blade collapsing onto my fingers if I slip with it during use over my grandads knife.
The tip is less likely to bend or break under abnormal use. The edge is less likely to chip ouit when it comes into contact with bone or another hard target than my grandads knife.
Are the knives I carry better than my grandads? You bet they are and that's why I don't carry a slipjoint like my grandad did. I'll take the advances in technology and put them to good use in my own ways. Ways that dear old grandad would never have imagined possible with his slipjoint. In fact, dear old gramps would be the first to buy the best folder he could, like me, thats why his slipjoints were not made in china or hong kong but here in the good old USA. Why? Because he wanted the best folder he could get his hands on in his heyday, just like me.
Imagine that, I have the same wants and needs as my grandpaw. To own the best I can afford. You can buy the least expensive product out there and then have to buy it over and over again, replacing them as they fail due to poor materials/heat treat or any other number of reasons. In the end you have spent the same amount of money, or more so, on the junk than if you had bit the bukllet and spent the money initially for the better product. It depends on your needs and how much you come to depend on your equipment.
If you buy the wrong equipment and then think you can depend on it when you really need it, you are only fooling yourself. If the paper, the foil and string won't know the difference, why should I buy a more expensive knife?
The simple answer, for me at least, is that one day I may need the folder to perform a function other than that which it is used for regularly [ string, foil and paper cutting ]. Those are the times when I'll want the better product.
This question could also be raised using different price points. I can buy an M-tek piece of crap for 5.00 over the 50.00 dollar knife. Why, if all I'm going to use it for is to cut twine and paper do I even need to spend 50.00? Thats sounds like an awful lot of money for sutting that sort of thing don't you think? The M-tek has a point thing at the front and an edge to slice things with. Do I need anything else really? Isn't there a diminishing return on money spent in spending 50.00 when a 5.00 knife will do the same thing?
It's all relative here folks. Some would never buy a Mercedes even if they could afford it. Others want the comfort and amenities the extra money spent will give them.
I own a Lincoln as I want the creature comforts. My wife drive a Jetta as she wants the better gas mileage and doesn't drive enough to worry about 2900 mile one way road trips [ to train in defensive knife like I do].
Do I need the Lincoln to drive 2900 miles? Naw, I don't think so. The Jetta would be just fine. Would I be as comfortable on the trip in the Jetta? Absolutely not.
Both are cars, have tires on the road, use gas just like the differences between a slipjoint folder and something more modern. They have the same features but one makes it easier to use more comfortably. The more expensive knife will have radiused corners that don't bite me [ as a rule ], will have better ergonomics [ as a rule ] whic hleads to less fatigue in use over an extended period of time.
If these attributes do not interest you, go buy the 5.00 china knockoff, it has the same features as the 50.00 knife. I have a hard time understanding those who profess a 50.00 knife will do everything a 500.00 knife will [ stan and slice materials ], yet would not buy or use a 5.00 knife over the 50.00 knife [ for obvious reasons ].
The analogy of a blizzard in Florida is not really germain to the issues here and a poor analogy at best. We don't all live in Florida, but I'm pretty confident all of us at one time or another will have an emergency where that 500.00 knife would perform admirably and the 50.00 knife will break in use, or fail and bite you itself. Now if we all lived in Florida, perhaps that comment might have some meaning to it, but alas, it doesn't as we that live north of the mason/dixon line could care less about a blizzard in Florida and consequently would not have to be prepared for it.
If you feel you'll never use your knife for anything but string and paper, save yourself 45.00 and buy the M-tek in lieu of the 50.00 CRKT [ or whatever ]. After you run through 8 M-teks, you could have purchased the 50.00 folder. Thats the same as buying a 50.00 knife, once, several times over the owners lifespan or buying one 500.00 folder that will outlast two or three generations after you are gone [ which means unless I lose the damned thing, I don't need to worry about having to buy another folder for the same purpose over an over again, ad nauseum.
I don't buy the best I can afford based on price point, I buy something that fits my needs, is made of materials that will last a lifetime of hard use if cared for properly, and fit my hand ergonomically. As well, the folder may be pressed into service to defend myself, even if that ocurring, is a low percentage money shot.
I don't buy things that are prone to fail easily. I buy a good wheelbarrow, not the cheapest. They both have wheels in the front [ like the point on a knife ]and they both have handles [ like the knives ], and they both have a place to put materials to be moved. One however is made with thinner, cheaper steel and will fall apart long before the more expensive better built will.
Any object, pick any object and the analogy can apply betwen whats acceptable and what is not based on ones potential personal needs where that tool is concerned.
I'm presently carrying a knife that cost me 103.00 dollars [ my cost ] and retails for about 160.00. The Tourist is carrying a 400.00 knife [ the SnG strider ].
Mine will not last as long or perform as well under severely adverse conditions as his. Mine is not a 50.00 knife, neither is his. If all he is going to cut is paper and foil, why spend the money when the M-tek will do the same thing for the materials he will be using it on?
In closing, there are degrees of acceptability. What I'm willing to accept as a bare minimum for my needs is not someone elses based on their own needs.
I'll take the best I can afford and like at the same time. If I'm convinced one will outlast another by a wide margin, I'll always take the better product [ Just like dear old grandad did ].
There is diminishing return after a certain point but that point is always changing based on whicj items are being discussed.
Brownie
i can rarely afford to buy the best, but when it comes down to something that I might have to rely on, I spend what I can afford.
If you can only afford $50, buy the knife and move on. Same if you don't think spending $350 more will get you that much more. I do know the lock on my $55 Spyderco has failed twice now, so I don't carry it unless I'm going somewhere that my Microtech is not welcome. If I could do it all over, I would have bought an SMF from the getgo, but I digress.
I do know that if I worked on the 100th story of a building you can bet your bottom dollar I would have a parachute and some base jumping lessons under my belt. Having solid gear gives me piece of mind and to me that is important.
cheers
If you can only afford $50, buy the knife and move on. Same if you don't think spending $350 more will get you that much more. I do know the lock on my $55 Spyderco has failed twice now, so I don't carry it unless I'm going somewhere that my Microtech is not welcome. If I could do it all over, I would have bought an SMF from the getgo, but I digress.
I do know that if I worked on the 100th story of a building you can bet your bottom dollar I would have a parachute and some base jumping lessons under my belt. Having solid gear gives me piece of mind and to me that is important.
cheers
Brownie, you win the "Missed the point" award for this thread. You are advocating knives that, though super tough, are way above and beyond what a typical customer needs.
Nowhere did I mention M-tech - we don't even carry the brand because it's (quite frankly) garbage. However, if you think the difference between a Strider & a Chris Reeve & a Camillus Dominator in terms of blade steel & edge retention are great, I'd ask you to check again - they are all S30V. In levels of quality, I know which one ranks best. I also know which one is the best choice for the average consumer.
The "one day my folder may have to fly a plane" analogies are miniscule probabilities at best, and hype & sensationalism at worst - things I despise in sales tactics. If you buy your knives looking for the OMGWORSTCASE IT MUST CUT A TANK IN HALF situations, you'll have to pardon me if I feel you are not the typical customer. The typical customer wants a knife that will last them. One that is made from quality materials. One that holds an edge and uses solid designs. One that stands on it's own merits, not on marketing.
If you want to toss out red herrings, be my guest. Please don't act so shocked when called on it though - your parka might get warm in the summer.
Nowhere did I mention M-tech - we don't even carry the brand because it's (quite frankly) garbage. However, if you think the difference between a Strider & a Chris Reeve & a Camillus Dominator in terms of blade steel & edge retention are great, I'd ask you to check again - they are all S30V. In levels of quality, I know which one ranks best. I also know which one is the best choice for the average consumer.
The "one day my folder may have to fly a plane" analogies are miniscule probabilities at best, and hype & sensationalism at worst - things I despise in sales tactics. If you buy your knives looking for the OMGWORSTCASE IT MUST CUT A TANK IN HALF situations, you'll have to pardon me if I feel you are not the typical customer. The typical customer wants a knife that will last them. One that is made from quality materials. One that holds an edge and uses solid designs. One that stands on it's own merits, not on marketing.
If you want to toss out red herrings, be my guest. Please don't act so shocked when called on it though - your parka might get warm in the summer.
- Status
