kingpin008
Member
You should ask your dad to explain how an inanimate object can be violent.
16 y/o with an AR15?
- Thread starter ehanger
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You should ask your dad to explain how an inanimate object can be violent.
KingMedicine
Member
I would say that a MP22/15 is a perfect choice. You can learn and get used to how the ar15 platforms, But dont have to pay for each round. 1100 bucks is alot of money, and that can be ate up by ammo costs damn fast. I would stick with the 22lr, or 22 mag if you want more punch.
Thanks for all of the good advice, I'm definitely considering getting the .22 conversion kit now. How easy/quick is it to install, and I assume I would be able to change it back to .223 whenever I wanted to?
Or would be it better to just get a separate .22 rifle altogether? I could take a friend along to the range without having to take turns, and the cheapness of the round would allow me to get in more marksmanship practice.
And in truth, since the closest public range in my area is a 45min drive, I wouldn't get out shooting very often (probably once every 1-3 weeks depending on schedule). I don't know how many rounds/trip I will average when actually owning a firearm, but the few times I shot an AR there were <100 shots fired before I was done for the day.
Or would be it better to just get a separate .22 rifle altogether? I could take a friend along to the range without having to take turns, and the cheapness of the round would allow me to get in more marksmanship practice.
And in truth, since the closest public range in my area is a 45min drive, I wouldn't get out shooting very often (probably once every 1-3 weeks depending on schedule). I don't know how many rounds/trip I will average when actually owning a firearm, but the few times I shot an AR there were <100 shots fired before I was done for the day.
If you feel safe trusting a 16 year old with a .22, you had better be able to trust them with anything else include an AR15. By the time you're 16, you shouldn't have any trouble with the extra recoil from the .223, so that's not a concern. The cost issues are definite concerns.
Congrats on saving that much money at your age.
Congrats on saving that much money at your age.
Packman
Member
Ehanger,
Sorry if I'm being a buzzkill here, but I'm a little surprised no one else has mentioned it...
Please use extreme caution in this purchase. You stated you've saved the requisite funds for the rifle of your choice, but your folks aren't real keen on the idea.
If you're not familiar with the concept of a Straw Purchase, please educate yourself. You can't pay Dad for him buying you the rifle, as I understand it. He can buy it and just give it to you, but you can't give him the money for it.
That said, I'm 21. I've wanted an AR for some time now, but the cost of ammo has been one of the biggest turnoffs for me. .22 is tough to beat, as a lot of folks have said. I have a couple of Marlins in .22 that are just a blast to shoot. If you wanted to buy a nice .22 and put some real nice optics on it, that still leaves a LOT of money left over for LOTS of ammo.
Good luck in your search.
Sorry if I'm being a buzzkill here, but I'm a little surprised no one else has mentioned it...
Please use extreme caution in this purchase. You stated you've saved the requisite funds for the rifle of your choice, but your folks aren't real keen on the idea.
If you're not familiar with the concept of a Straw Purchase, please educate yourself. You can't pay Dad for him buying you the rifle, as I understand it. He can buy it and just give it to you, but you can't give him the money for it.
That said, I'm 21. I've wanted an AR for some time now, but the cost of ammo has been one of the biggest turnoffs for me. .22 is tough to beat, as a lot of folks have said. I have a couple of Marlins in .22 that are just a blast to shoot. If you wanted to buy a nice .22 and put some real nice optics on it, that still leaves a LOT of money left over for LOTS of ammo.
Good luck in your search.
doc2rn
Member
I have got to say I am not a fan of combat plastic. However, if your sure this is the platform you want, you should research and if possible rent one at the range. I would expect you could then make an informed decission.
My personal recommendation is to start with the .22 lr, it will get far more use than your .223/5.56. To all of those who remember the good ole days, I got my first .22 lr ( a Ruger Standard) at age 11 and that was considered late! Most kids had a BB gun at 8, pellet gun at 9, and Marlin mod 60 at 10 back in the 70s. I know times where different and the social and political atmosphere has changed.
As a practical tool every household should have a rifle, shotgun, and pistol in my opinion just like a smoke detector, extinguisher, and carbon monoxide detector.
My personal recommendation is to start with the .22 lr, it will get far more use than your .223/5.56. To all of those who remember the good ole days, I got my first .22 lr ( a Ruger Standard) at age 11 and that was considered late! Most kids had a BB gun at 8, pellet gun at 9, and Marlin mod 60 at 10 back in the 70s. I know times where different and the social and political atmosphere has changed.
As a practical tool every household should have a rifle, shotgun, and pistol in my opinion just like a smoke detector, extinguisher, and carbon monoxide detector.
Get a quality AR and a 22lr conversion kit. There are only about 10 "what AR should I buy???" threads here per day in rifle country forum, so you shouldn't have problems finding recommendations.
You should consider saving up for a class. I highly recommend this one: http://eagtactical.com/coursedetails.asp?ListID=10
The best thing you can do is attend the class first with gun they will loan to you. You will learn all about what works and what doesn't there, and then you can make an informed purchase.
Your parents should also feel better about your having expert training in the safe, practical handling of an AR.
You should consider saving up for a class. I highly recommend this one: http://eagtactical.com/coursedetails.asp?ListID=10
The best thing you can do is attend the class first with gun they will loan to you. You will learn all about what works and what doesn't there, and then you can make an informed purchase.
Your parents should also feel better about your having expert training in the safe, practical handling of an AR.
Whatever you decide I suggest getting a .22 lr rifle as well. Many are inexpensive and the ammo cost is unbeatable. You will be able to shoot much much more and learn skills. I am voting for getting a .22 and also whatever you want in an ar-15. It is your money. Spend it wisely. I have found that it is much more fun to actually shoot than collect gear that is unused.
ehanger,
You have a couple of options. First off: Be cool with you parents. They are more worried about your well being than any body.
Look into if there are any competitions in your area. That is a good place to learn some really good fundementals. Some areas also have fairly active junior programs. If you want to share you general location that might help. Also look for local gun forums.
I am kind of mixed on the .22 conversions. I like the concept. Problem is you can get a dedicated .22lr for almost the same price. Not an AR .22lr necessarily, maybe a bolt gun. You want one with the option of good iron sights or scope.
A new development from Mossberg: http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=43&display=desc
( I have no idea if it is good or junk - less than $300 )
Another option would be an air rifle to shoot at home if at all possible. That would be cost effective and no need to go to a range. When you do go to the range you will be tuned up pretty well.
Cost of .223 ain't no fun compared to .22lr or pellets. But some of the .22 & pellets are up there in price. The .22 and air rifle can be great bang for the buck. You could add a .22 pistol later (check legality)
If you get an AR that can shoot heavier bullets you can get out to decent ranges with it. A National Match AR is a great rifle, but would be a bit much for your budget.
It comes down to what your particular interest are.
Decisions get more complicated as you get older, so enjoy your time of youth.
You have a couple of options. First off: Be cool with you parents. They are more worried about your well being than any body.
Look into if there are any competitions in your area. That is a good place to learn some really good fundementals. Some areas also have fairly active junior programs. If you want to share you general location that might help. Also look for local gun forums.
I am kind of mixed on the .22 conversions. I like the concept. Problem is you can get a dedicated .22lr for almost the same price. Not an AR .22lr necessarily, maybe a bolt gun. You want one with the option of good iron sights or scope.
A new development from Mossberg: http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=43&display=desc
( I have no idea if it is good or junk - less than $300 )
Another option would be an air rifle to shoot at home if at all possible. That would be cost effective and no need to go to a range. When you do go to the range you will be tuned up pretty well.
Cost of .223 ain't no fun compared to .22lr or pellets. But some of the .22 & pellets are up there in price. The .22 and air rifle can be great bang for the buck. You could add a .22 pistol later (check legality)
If you get an AR that can shoot heavier bullets you can get out to decent ranges with it. A National Match AR is a great rifle, but would be a bit much for your budget.
It comes down to what your particular interest are.
Decisions get more complicated as you get older, so enjoy your time of youth.
JTHunter
Member
Underage shooter
Larry Ashcraft said:
Maybe in Colorado, but definately not in "Daleyland" (Illinois)!
Must be 18 for "longguns"; 21 for handguns; no possession except when hunting/range and "must be accompanied by "adult" (parent/guardian) at the range.
Fun, fun, fun!
Larry Ashcraft said:
Maybe in Colorado, but definately not in "Daleyland" (Illinois)!
Must be 18 for "longguns"; 21 for handguns; no possession except when hunting/range and "must be accompanied by "adult" (parent/guardian) at the range. Fun, fun, fun!
Sounds like you have your mind made up for an AR, so I won't try to talk you out of that. Nothing against AR's, buy it seems like kind of a big step for a first rifle. I would recommend an M1 Garand. Just kidding- it's your decision.
I can understand your folks' reaction. I'm guessing that they look at it much like as if you had wanted to get a motorcycle. They would probably be nervous about you buying the latest crotch-rocket and would rather you get a Honda 250 instead.
My nephew got a souped-up Mustang as a graduation gift from his parents. It lasted two weeks to the day. He completely totaled it and almost killed himself.
Rifles are a little different, of course. Anything wrong or immature you could do with an AR you shouldn't be doing with a .22 either, but have you considered getting an inexpensive .22 first and proving your maturity and safety with it before stepping up to something bigger? Just a thought, might make your folks feel better about it.
Just kidding- it's your decision.I can understand your folks' reaction. I'm guessing that they look at it much like as if you had wanted to get a motorcycle. They would probably be nervous about you buying the latest crotch-rocket and would rather you get a Honda 250 instead.
My nephew got a souped-up Mustang as a graduation gift from his parents. It lasted two weeks to the day. He completely totaled it and almost killed himself.
Rifles are a little different, of course. Anything wrong or immature you could do with an AR you shouldn't be doing with a .22 either, but have you considered getting an inexpensive .22 first and proving your maturity and safety with it before stepping up to something bigger? Just a thought, might make your folks feel better about it.
Gord
Member
Has anyone asked where the OP lives and whether ARs are even legal in his area? If he doesn't know anyone with a gun and Daddy's talking about "assault rifles" it sounds like he could be behind enemy lines, so to speak. I know he mentioned having rented an AR at the range, but also that the nearest range was 45 mins away, possibly across state lines.
coloradokevin
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2008
- Messages
- 3,285
From a legal perspective there is no difference between owning a rifle chambered in .22LR and owning one chambered in .223 Rem. So long as your state doesn't have any silly "assault weapons" ban, there isn't any difference in the legalities of owning an AR-15 or a Ruger 10-22.
By the age of 16 I had shot everything from a variety of .22 rifles, a variety of shotguns (10ga-28ga), a few military-like guns (AR-15's, AK clones, SKS, FN-FAL, etc), a number of common hunting rifles, and a .375 H&H Mag. As long as your parents feel that you are ready to handle the responsibility of having a gun, I personally see no issue with owning an AR-15.
An AR-15 is an accurate, low-maintenance platform with readily available parts and accessories. They're a blast to shoot (pun intended), and you can learn long-range marksmanship using open sights on the AR-15.
I have a couple of .22s and a couple of AR-15's. They're both fun and they both have their place, but I couldn't make an argument to not own an AR-15 if you are already capable of handling a .22lr.
By the age of 16 I had shot everything from a variety of .22 rifles, a variety of shotguns (10ga-28ga), a few military-like guns (AR-15's, AK clones, SKS, FN-FAL, etc), a number of common hunting rifles, and a .375 H&H Mag. As long as your parents feel that you are ready to handle the responsibility of having a gun, I personally see no issue with owning an AR-15.
An AR-15 is an accurate, low-maintenance platform with readily available parts and accessories. They're a blast to shoot (pun intended), and you can learn long-range marksmanship using open sights on the AR-15.
I have a couple of .22s and a couple of AR-15's. They're both fun and they both have their place, but I couldn't make an argument to not own an AR-15 if you are already capable of handling a .22lr.
devildave31
Member
Definitely sounds like you have your heart set on an AR, so far be it from me to tell you not to. I don't know how much this will help but here are my thoughts.
I bought my wife an AR-15 when she was 20. She loved it. flash forward 7 yrs. It hardly ever gets shot. Unless you have a specific use in mind (hunting, target shooting, competition, etc.) you may find that after a while, the coolness of owning an AR wears off. Not saying it will, just a thought.
Without knowing you personally, I'd say you seem pretty responsible and I don't see why you should not have one if you want one and the law allows it.
I agree with a lot of the posters on being cool and mature while discussing this with your parents. If your Dad has not put his foot down and said no to an AR, then it seems like he may be won over with logic. Study up on ARs extensively and share that knowledge with him. As far as the "Assault Rifle" issue, yuo can buy 25 rd mags for a 10/22 as well as buying lower capacity (10 or 20 rd) mags for an AR.
Check and double check how your local laws apply!!!
We have a Bushmaster with a 16" barrel and full handguard. Other than the shorter portion of exposed barrel, it looks in all respects like a military issued M16A2 (minus the 3 rd burst, of course). I have not looked into ARs in a while, but when I did, it seemed like the fewer bells and whistles, and the more "A2" it looked, the lower the prices tended to be. I can't imagine that you couldn't find a decent AR + .22 conversion for the money you have saved, or maybe just a shade more (probably no more than you could save in the mean time, while you continue AR research).
As with all firearms, follow all of the safety rules and be generally responsible with all of your weapons and I can't see how this could a bad purchase or "worse" than a.22.
Good luck and let us know what you do.
I bought my wife an AR-15 when she was 20. She loved it. flash forward 7 yrs. It hardly ever gets shot. Unless you have a specific use in mind (hunting, target shooting, competition, etc.) you may find that after a while, the coolness of owning an AR wears off. Not saying it will, just a thought.
Without knowing you personally, I'd say you seem pretty responsible and I don't see why you should not have one if you want one and the law allows it.
I agree with a lot of the posters on being cool and mature while discussing this with your parents. If your Dad has not put his foot down and said no to an AR, then it seems like he may be won over with logic. Study up on ARs extensively and share that knowledge with him. As far as the "Assault Rifle" issue, yuo can buy 25 rd mags for a 10/22 as well as buying lower capacity (10 or 20 rd) mags for an AR.
Check and double check how your local laws apply!!!
We have a Bushmaster with a 16" barrel and full handguard. Other than the shorter portion of exposed barrel, it looks in all respects like a military issued M16A2 (minus the 3 rd burst, of course). I have not looked into ARs in a while, but when I did, it seemed like the fewer bells and whistles, and the more "A2" it looked, the lower the prices tended to be. I can't imagine that you couldn't find a decent AR + .22 conversion for the money you have saved, or maybe just a shade more (probably no more than you could save in the mean time, while you continue AR research).
As with all firearms, follow all of the safety rules and be generally responsible with all of your weapons and I can't see how this could a bad purchase or "worse" than a.22.
Good luck and let us know what you do.
bwsmith2850
Member
'The AR15 is an "assault rifle" according to my dad so its much more violent than a .22 rifle.'
Ah, yes the 'Evil Black Rifle' effect. I believe the Germans thought the Mosin-Nagant, 1903 Springfield, M-1, and Enfield were pretty violent too.
Mosins are ok for inexpensive plinkers, I enjoy mine but it's nothing to write home about. The 7.62X54R that they shoot is similar in power to the 30-06 and other early 20th century military rifles. That's a lot more power than the .223 from an AR. They are known for having bad barrels so bring a small flashlight along to look inside. Bores should be bright.
Since he has to go along with the purchase, I'd warm Dad up with a .22 first. He is comfortable with the idea of a .22, that's important. The usual rule is that you need to be supervised anyway so bring him along when you shoot (and shoot with you) so he can see how you handle the rifle. Once he sees you are careful with it work up to the AR. He can find out (or remember) how much fun plinking can be. If he gets the bug, he won't need any more convincing.
The Ruger 10/22 is a nice rifle but if you pick up an inexpensive autoloader like a Mossberg Plinkster (I have 2 in the safe for Christmas for my kids who are both younger than you) or Marlin you will still have enough for the AR when the time comes. They both come in around $100. Then you will have 2 rifles. (Then they start breeding in the safe)
Ah, yes the 'Evil Black Rifle' effect. I believe the Germans thought the Mosin-Nagant, 1903 Springfield, M-1, and Enfield were pretty violent too.
Mosins are ok for inexpensive plinkers, I enjoy mine but it's nothing to write home about. The 7.62X54R that they shoot is similar in power to the 30-06 and other early 20th century military rifles. That's a lot more power than the .223 from an AR. They are known for having bad barrels so bring a small flashlight along to look inside. Bores should be bright.
Since he has to go along with the purchase, I'd warm Dad up with a .22 first. He is comfortable with the idea of a .22, that's important. The usual rule is that you need to be supervised anyway so bring him along when you shoot (and shoot with you) so he can see how you handle the rifle. Once he sees you are careful with it work up to the AR. He can find out (or remember) how much fun plinking can be. If he gets the bug, he won't need any more convincing.
The Ruger 10/22 is a nice rifle but if you pick up an inexpensive autoloader like a Mossberg Plinkster (I have 2 in the safe for Christmas for my kids who are both younger than you) or Marlin you will still have enough for the AR when the time comes. They both come in around $100. Then you will have 2 rifles. (Then they start breeding in the safe)
Quote:
"Wait 2 more years and you can get one for free from Uncle Sam via the Armed Forces"
--------
wow going into the Armed Forces for years just to get your hands on a 800$ rifle.
cool logic.
going halfway around the world to fight farmers,while your wife and kids are left at home vulnerable to local threats. cool.
"Wait 2 more years and you can get one for free from Uncle Sam via the Armed Forces"
--------
wow going into the Armed Forces for years just to get your hands on a 800$ rifle.
cool logic.
going halfway around the world to fight farmers,while your wife and kids are left at home vulnerable to local threats. cool.
Sunray
Member
"...have saved up about $1100 of my own money..." Hi. Well done. And congratulations.
"...rather buy an AR than a .22..." What's your ammo budget like? .223 is a whole bunch more expensive to shoot than a .22. Not much point having a rifle you can't afford to shoot.
You're not alone being the only family member interested in the shooting sports either.
"...The AR15 is an "assault rifle"..." It's not going to help, but an AR isn't an assault rifle. Neither is an M16. An assault rifle is defined as a select fire, battle rifle, chambered in the same calibre as the regular infantry rifle using a smaller cartridge.
Don't PO your da. He won't be there forever and it sucks.
"...rather buy an AR than a .22..." What's your ammo budget like? .223 is a whole bunch more expensive to shoot than a .22. Not much point having a rifle you can't afford to shoot.
You're not alone being the only family member interested in the shooting sports either.
"...The AR15 is an "assault rifle"..." It's not going to help, but an AR isn't an assault rifle. Neither is an M16. An assault rifle is defined as a select fire, battle rifle, chambered in the same calibre as the regular infantry rifle using a smaller cartridge.
Don't PO your da. He won't be there forever and it sucks.
the m16 is an assault rifle, in my opinion.
because i always thought An assault rifle is defined as a select fire rifle that fires from a closed bolt and uses intermediate or light caliber rounds.
anyways.
you could get a ak74 and buy low cost 5.45 wolf ammo.
or just buy a ar15 rifle and a .22lr rifle. if your going to get a 850$ ar15 rifle than whats another 200$ for a .22 rifle.
because i always thought An assault rifle is defined as a select fire rifle that fires from a closed bolt and uses intermediate or light caliber rounds.
anyways.
you could get a ak74 and buy low cost 5.45 wolf ammo.
or just buy a ar15 rifle and a .22lr rifle. if your going to get a 850$ ar15 rifle than whats another 200$ for a .22 rifle.
Last edited:
If you get the Mossberg do a range report!http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=43&display=desc
WeedWacker
Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2007
- Messages
- 100
Good advice coming from a very well informed group of guys in the firearms world. One thing I have not noticed is the mention of safety with a Mosin. It's hard to work and is a knob on the back of the rifle that you pull back towards you and rotate counter clockwise to engage, then perform the opposite to disengage. Controls mean everything since safety is one of the most important factors of firearms. If you lean towards a bolt I would recommend a savage first on the cheap scale, then a Howa 1500, then a Rem SPS 700.
But you are being smart and are leaning towards an AR-15 or similarly patterned rifle. A .22 conversion is a good idea but I have an idea for you.
Step 1) Buy a 10/22
Show dad the .22 and get him shooting. Teach him that guns are inanimate objects and only perform how they are designed and how the brain behind the action is where the problems lie, not with the machine (for the most part, so long as there isn't a functionality problem with the machine but proper safety practices can prevent tragedies due to faulty sears and safeties)
Step 2) Get a SKS
A) It's semi-auto
B) it's functional as a hunting apparatus granted you could find soft point ammo for it (Federal makes some good stuff I believe)
Introduce the concept and reinforce the safety and inanimate object points.
Step 3) Get the AR
You can spend that $800 on a bone stock Bushie
Or you can build a quality AR for less than what Bushmaster or Rock River charges.
Stripped lower (up to $150) Del-ton basic kit ($395 + S/H = ~$420) builds a complete rifle with close to bushmaster quality if not better (all for about $570)
If you skip proposed step 2 and dad says AR's are more dangerous based on looks mention that the pistol grip is an ergonomic upgrade from traditional stocks to improve accuracy. Even bolt action target rifles are moving that direction with pseudo pistol grip styles like McMillan stocks. It's not looks that kill.
But you are being smart and are leaning towards an AR-15 or similarly patterned rifle. A .22 conversion is a good idea but I have an idea for you.
Step 1) Buy a 10/22
Show dad the .22 and get him shooting. Teach him that guns are inanimate objects and only perform how they are designed and how the brain behind the action is where the problems lie, not with the machine (for the most part, so long as there isn't a functionality problem with the machine but proper safety practices can prevent tragedies due to faulty sears and safeties)
Step 2) Get a SKS
A) It's semi-auto
B) it's functional as a hunting apparatus granted you could find soft point ammo for it (Federal makes some good stuff I believe)
Introduce the concept and reinforce the safety and inanimate object points.
Step 3) Get the AR
You can spend that $800 on a bone stock Bushie
Or you can build a quality AR for less than what Bushmaster or Rock River charges.
Stripped lower (up to $150) Del-ton basic kit ($395 + S/H = ~$420) builds a complete rifle with close to bushmaster quality if not better (all for about $570)
If you skip proposed step 2 and dad says AR's are more dangerous based on looks mention that the pistol grip is an ergonomic upgrade from traditional stocks to improve accuracy. Even bolt action target rifles are moving that direction with pseudo pistol grip styles like McMillan stocks. It's not looks that kill.
bomb dropper
Member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2009
- Messages
- 134
Most will agree that spikes is a great company with top rate service. So here is my suggestion you can take it for what it's worth.
Spikes m4-$800
And
.22 conversion-$170
That's $970 plus 30ish for the ffl leaves you a little to pick up some extras.
Tell you what I owe a pay it forward to a member on here so if you get you a ar send me an email and I'll send you some usgi mags.
Spikes m4-$800
And
.22 conversion-$170
That's $970 plus 30ish for the ffl leaves you a little to pick up some extras.
Tell you what I owe a pay it forward to a member on here so if you get you a ar send me an email and I'll send you some usgi mags.
RimfireChris
Member
Hey, there, first off, congrats on saving up the $$, you sound like a resposible young man. Second, everyone's given good advice here, the only thing I'd add is go with a standard AR-15 and conversion kit, not a clone in .22LR. The reason is, you can always take the .22 upper off when you want, but you can't put a 5.56 upper on the .22 rifles. A friend had one, don't remember witch make, but they're not hard to put on/take off and yes, you can switch back whenever you'd like. Good luck and don't forget to show us some pics.
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