Do 22 conversion make sense anymore?

[CZ223]

In my mind they never did. I never could understand why someone would buy a 1911 and then buy a kit to convert it to a .22. Buying an AR-15 then buying a 22 upper made about as much sense. I understand that people wanted to practice with cheap 22 ammo, but why not just buy another gun in 22? After all, the 1911 conversions range from $300-$500 and a 22 upper for the AR costs from $400-$600. For the $300 that I would spend converting a 1911 I could buy a Ruger MarkII, a few years ago. Now I know that most will say it was so they could practice with the gun they carry for familiarity etc. and I can uderstand that.

Now to the real point of my question. Now that Chiappa is making a 1911 in 22 for around $300 and Smith and wesson is producing a $400 22 AR15, do these conversion kits make any sense at all. Heck, GSG is even making clones of the AK 47 and and the HK. While I never really understood the appeal of the conversions some of these new guns do have some appeal, especially the AR15 clone. So what are your oppinions?

 

[essayons21]

Yes, I can keep the exact same ergonomics and practice everything but recoil control while saving a bundle. Yes I could buy a standalone gun for approximately the cost of the conversion, but my 1911s and ARs are customized and it would cost even more to get the standalone .22 to perfectly match.

 

[dogtown tom]

Ummmmm..........maybe because they want to shoot the real thing instead of a clone. You confuse a dedicated rimfire AR upper with a conversion kit- conversion kits for ARs are inexpensive- MUCH less expensive than any complete AR .22

Colt, Advantage Arms or Ceiner conversion kit vs a pot metal & plastic Chiappa? Give me the conversion kit any day.

A conversion kit costs less than a dedicated .22 gun on the same platform.
Some firearms are not made in rimfire calibers- it is a unique experience shooting a Browning Hi Power in .22 rimfire.
A conversion kit assembly takes up less room than another firearm.
A conversion kit may be mail ordered & does not require an FFL.
And most importantly, a conversion kit allows continued CHEAP practice on the centerfire firearm that the person may carry and use for self defense. You cannot discount the trigger time or training experiences gained by using a rimfire conversion kit.

Oh........what better way to teach your kid or grandkid how to shoot than using the same gun greatgrandad carried in the big war or dad carries on duty?


The appeal of conversions? You gave the answer yourself.

 

[happygeek]

I got my CMMG dedicated 22LR upper together with a RRA lower before I even knew there were rifles like the S&W M&P22. I don't regret it though. It feels the same as the M4 at work, weight and balance wise, and the controls are the same [all except for the lack of a bolt hold open]. It looks the same externally, they even put a forward assist on it just for looks.

The thing has already paid for itself, since I've put around 5,000 rounds of 22LR through it in the year and a half I've had it. Figure 5,000 rounds of Wolf 5.56 would have cost me $1,250 [25 cents a round] while those 5,000 rounds of 22LR cost me roughly $200 [averaged around 4 cents a round].

I am looking at having to spend $90 on a new bolt for it though.

 

[czkahr]

I have .22 kits for a 1911, the Colt Ace top end, a CZ Kadet top end and an M 261 for AR rifles. I like the idea of using the same gun, not one that's pretty much like it for training. The CZ kit fits my HD gun that wears a laser, it would be costly to add that to a practice only gun, the AR has an Aimpoint, same deal.
So yeah I think they still make sense , for me at least.

 

[RyanM]

Yeah, prices only work out that way if you buy a .22 conversion from the highest price supplier you can possibly, vs. a pot metal dedicated .22 from some guy who has no idea how to price used guns.

Otherwise, a cheap-ish pistol conversion costs about $200-$250, same as a cheap Ruger Mk.III or Browning Buckmark, and a cheap-ish AR conversion costs about $100-$150, same as a cheap Ruger 10/22 or Marlin something-.22.

 

[EddieNFL]

I don't understand fashion.

Only drawback with the S&W AR 22 is weight. Also, it's not available in DCM configuration for HP practice. AFA the 1911, I agree with Dogtown.

 

[RandyB]

The only interest I had would be on a hiking trip, carrying my 1911 in .45 and then the .22 conversion would make it easier to carry more ammo and to hunt for small game. Of course with the weight a bearcat might weigh as much? I don't have the conversions on any of my guns for what its worth.

 

[ThePunisher'sArmory]

I think everone here has covered it. Some like to "tactically train" with their firearms. Instead of just shooting them. Conversion kits make that easy cause nearly everything is the same, less the bolt holdback. The OPs example of a Ruger MKII the controlls are close to a 1911.......But its not a 1911. +1 on not wanting the cheap pot metal chiappa. I looked at one and it looked like a pellet gun.

 

[Zach S]

Now that Chiappa is making a 1911 in 22 for around $300 and Smith and wesson is producing a $400 22 AR15, do these conversion kits make any sense at all. Heck, GSG is even making clones of the AK 47 and and the HK.

And they all feel like toys...

I own a GSG5 and have experience with an MP5 (registered sear gun). The difference in overall quality and construction is night and day - much like comparing the SW AR15 in 22 to the rimfire AR15 I built that cost twice as much.

 

[9mmepiphany]

if you are trying to become proficient with a gun, instead of just plinking with it, the .22lr conversion kits are the only way to go.

it's not just cheaper to feed, it is that you become familiar with the location and feel of the controls and the trigger. i was teaching a while back and my student kept tightening his grip on the 9mm Sig 226ST as he was doing the pushout drill in anticipation of the recoil as the trigger released. a quick switch to the .22lr upper allowed him to get his timing down and the shot on target.

the switch back showed that he could retain the movement and timing needed to break the shot as his arms reached extension with the 9mm

 

[Shadow 7D]

Yes, you get the controls and familiarity of your EDC with the lack of recoil and expense.

 

[loadedround]

+1 for all of the above!

 

[killchain]

I got ahold of a Ceiner .22LR kit for a Beretta 92FS a few months ago.

I went the Walther P22 packing, and I have not regretted it for a second.

Practicing with .22LR in a platform that you want to learn and learn good is the smartest way to go.

And in my line of work, I use the M9 daily. Buying a seperate pistol in .22LR and plinking with that is nowhere the useful training aid that my Ceiner kit is.

So yes, .22LR conversion kits make a LOT of sense.

 

[f4t9r]

makes sense to me, for the same reasons everyone else posted

 

[CraigC]

You cannot discount the trigger time or training experiences gained by using a rimfire conversion kit.

Exactly!

Some like to "tactically train" with their firearms. Instead of just shooting them. Conversion kits make that easy cause nearly everything is the same, less the bolt holdback. The OPs example of a Ruger MKII the controls are close to a 1911.......But its not a 1911. +1 on not wanting the cheap pot metal chiappa. I looked at one and it looked like a pellet gun.

That too! I've got a new Ruger 22/45RP with full thickness 1911 grips and while it's as close as it'll ever be, it still ain't a 1911. It's an attractive and accurate .22 pistol but it's not really applicable as a 1911 trainer. That's where my Ciener-equipped Kimber comes in. Practice with the .22 conversion has multiplied my skill with the platform exponentially.

I also agree that the Chiappa is a cheap piece of junk. I wouldn't take a free one but the GSG 1911 shows some promise.

 

[WC145]

I carry a 1911 on and off duty and recently started shooting IDPA with it as well. Cost of ammo for training and competition is a big factor for me as I don't reload (but need to start:). A couple of weeks ago I bought a GSG-1911 for play and practice. Aside from being a bit lighter than my steel full-size 1911, it feels the same, works the same, and is equipped the same - ambi-safety, beaver tail, 3 dot sights, the mags drop free, etc. It runs reliably and is quite accurate and shooting it is no different from my "real" 1911 except for recoil and muzzle blast. I can use my duty gear and practice everything the same as I normally would for a much lower cost. I'm into the GSG for $395 total including shipping, transfer, and 2 spare mags. It will more than pay for itself in about 2000 rounds compared to the cost of centerfire practice ammo. I also have a CMMG conversion kit for my AR-15 which allows me the same inexpensive trigger time with it compared to shooting centerfire ammo.

I like having a dedicated .22 compared to a conversion kit because I can just switch guns at the end of a range session and run a couple of mags through my "big" gun and not have to break anything down or swap any parts.

Also, the GSG is nothing like the Chiappa, it is much higher quality and much closer to the real thing.

Here's a pic of my GSG-1911 with my Springfield Loaded for comparison-

 

[22-rimfire]

I tend to want two guns; one regular and one unleaded (reliable 22 conversion) rather than changing them out. So I really don't save any money. If you "train" with a gun, having the same piece in 22 and centerfire has its merits. The same approach was applied to revolvers. If you train a lot, the ammo cost differential would eventually pay for the 22.

 

[CZ223]

Thanks WC145

I did not know about the GSG 1911. Apparently the concesus is that the Chiappa 45/22 isn't much more than a toy. If I felt the need to have a 1911 in 22 caliber, and I might, I would definitely look close at the GSG 1911/22. Judging from what I have heard about their other 22's, they seem to make a good product. I guess a lot of people really like the GSG MP5/22.

the gun that really does interest me right now is the S&W M&P15-22. From the reviews tht I have seen online and the little bit of feedback that I have gotten so far, it seems like a winner. While the Colt AR15-22 is closer in weight tothe real thing the S&W is closer in functionality it seems. In any case it looks like it would be good for inexpensive practice with a gun that is relatively close to a real AR.

 

[hso]

I used to argue that the price of a .22 conversion kit would allow you to purchase enough ammo for a couple of years of practice/plinking so it was a waste of money to spend it on the kit instead of 9mm or .45 or .223 even if it allowed you to practice/train with your primary firearms.

When ammunition became much more expensive and scarce I changed by point of view. The price of just a year's worth of ammunition became more than the price of a conversion kit and the practicality became apparent for people who wanted to actually shoot instead of just fondle their firearms. Once I became more open to the idea I began to realize that a .22 conversion allowed a lot of kids to shoot, allowed an owner to be able to afford to introduce more people to shooting and gave the owner plenty of ammo to get trigger time with on the "go-to" gun so their manual of arms and trigger control would improve. Not just a cheap solution to exceptionally high priced ammo, but actually a way to help gun owners shoot more than they did during cheap ammo days, but also a way to help introduce more people to shooting.

Now that ammunition availability has increased and prices have dropped a bit I still think that .22 conversions are a great idea because .22 will always be cheaper than .223 or 9mm or .45 and that means still more trigger time for owners and more opportunity for new shooters.

I put a .22 flat top upper on an Oly AR M4gery for my daughter. It allowed her to start shooting an AR platform much earlier than it might otherwise. What I found was that I was grabbing the thing also and running 4 or 5 mags through it because it handled like "Dad's AR" but only cost pennies. It's also much quieter than my AR and that allows me to practice behind the house without annoying the neighbors which motivates me to practice more.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Yes, I can keep the exact same ergonomics and practice everything but recoil control while saving a bundle. Yes I could buy a standalone gun for approximately the cost of the conversion, but my 1911s and ARs are customized and it would cost even more to get the standalone .22 to perfectly match.

^^^^This. I get trigger time on one trigger, which is awesome and great for practice with my carry weapon or home defense weapon. If all I wanted to do was sling lead, yes a dedicated weapon may make more sense...but I am slinging lead and practicing.

Not only that, but it greatly lowers the amount of firearms that I'm carrying to the range or my property. If I happen to be skeet shooting that day, I also have a few shotguns to carry around, as well. Two rifles or one rifle plus extra bolt assembly in a bag I'll need anyway...saves some lugging back and forth. Then of course it's much easier to clean one gun and two bolts afterward...or one lower and two uppers...or one frame and two slides...you get the picture.

Edit:: It was also easier to get my kids involved when shooting 22's out of my ar. At first, the report from 223 scared them away from trigger time or caused flinching. Start them off with the 22, then change the bolt and they'll be ready for bigger calibers than 223 in no time. Necessary? No, but it helped and it sped up the process. It took me much longer as a kid to become accustomed to larger caliber rifles.

And as far as ar's are concerned, if you already have one you can get a bolt kit for 150-200 bucks. A dedicated rifle is twice that...which is several hundred 22 rounds. Most of us already have a 22 rifle (or several), so buying a 22 ar or dedicated upper just to have a 22 ar doesn't make much monetary sense to me...YMMV. My ar with a 22 bolt makes for a whole bunch of fun. If I want accuracy, I'll bring along my marlin 22 rifle. I'd rather put the money I'd spend on a dedicated 22 AR or 1911 towards a reloading press, but that's me.

 

[22-rimfire]

Kimber made their 1911 in 22LR only. It is a light gun, but pretty pricey. Some feel that a 22 should be lighter. You hear both sides of the argument about weight.

Colt of course made their ACE (22LR) which had the floating chamber. I have read that you really need to keep them clean or they simply don't function well. I own one, but don't shoot it.

Everything I have read is that the Smith MP22 (rifle) is a good one. Have not shot one, but I have certainly handled them fairly often in stores.... should I or shouldn't I?

 

[Hatterasguy]

I prefer to buy rifles or pistols in .22. The problem with conversion kits is that you are still putting wear on your guns. I rather shoot the crap out of a .22 and keep the other guns nice.

 

[Kwanger]

I have a .22 conversion for my Glock 17 - it's nice, but now 9mm ammo is affordable again (though it will never be as affordable as 22), I don't find myself using it much. On the other hand, I do have a dedicated 22 Beretta Neos, which I do use a lot.

AR wise, I have a M&P15-22, which perfectly complements my M&P15T. IMHO, no point having a dedicated upper when you can get a whole one of these rifles for the same or less. Everything works *exactly* the same as any AR. If the 22 uppers were cheaper, I might change my mind.

 

[Beaux Nehr]

I learned A LOT about my grip, trigger work, and gun after buying a .22 conversion for my 1911.
My shooting skills have vastly improved.

You'd be amazed what you notice when there's no loud bang and kick to distract you.